Chaucer

Thanks, Flyjack. If Cooper was a no-pull, there would be virtually no drift. He could jump over the north bank of the Columbia and end up along that bank or one of the nearby islands, such as Government, Lemon, or McGuire. The body and/or the money remain there until Spring where the flood waters pick it up along with other nearby debris and carry it downstream to Tena Bar. Regarding your comment about the time stamps, I think this could work both ways, no? They could be later than they state. Also, the original search area was near Lake Merwin. Now, most consider Battle Ground/Orchards a better spot. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that that location is farther south.

Thanks, but is that officially documented? I mean, is that in the transcripts or the 302s? I thought that was just anecdotal? Not arguing with you; I honestly don’t know.

8:05 was the last time the flight crew hear from Cooper when he responded to them on the intercom that "everything was OK"8:10 was the first time there are any reports of "oscillations" (FBI Vault, Part 41, p. 31 & 32)8:12 was the last time there are any reports of "oscillations".(FBI Vault, Part 41, p. 31 & 32) At this point the plane was just east of LaCenter. There is no official report of a "pressure bump" which is generally used as the point at which Cooper jumped causing the stairs to swing back up. We don't know when that took place, but we know it took place AFTER 8:12 because the oscillations preceded the pressure bump.So, while we don't have an exact time of the pressure bump, we do have pilot statements. Rat said initially that the pressure bump was felt 5 to 10 minutes after last contact (8:05). That would put the bump between 8:10 and 8:15. We know it can't be between 8:10 and 8:12 because that is when the oscillations are happening. So it would have to happen between 8:13 and 8:15. However, Rat later told Carr that the pressure bump occurred 10 to 15 minutes after last contact (8:05). This would give you a range between 8:15 and 8:20 for the pressure bump. However, further statements by the crew were that the pressure bump occurred when "the lights of the suburbs of Portland were visible" but they "had not yet crossed the Columbia. The plane crossed over the Columbia at 8:17, so we can eliminate any bump happening after 8:17. Thus, the timing of the oscillations combined with the statements of the pilot give a range between 8:13 and 8:17 for Cooper jumping and causing the pressure bump. The median of this time range is 8:15. At 8:15 the plane is over the Orchards area. In actuality, the northernmost jump point is just north of Battleground and the southernmost would be the northern banks of the Columbia. I used Orchards as a center between the two. My contention is that the jump occurred in the 8:16/8:17 time frame and Cooper and/or the money came to rest very near the banks of the Columbia.As far as what happened to Cooper and the money once it left the aircraft is merely an educated guess, but I believe the river is the most likely vehicle for the money to end up on Tena Bar.

Flyjack, You mentioned that you had some theories as to how the money got in the river and arrived on Tena Bar. I have some thoughts on that too, but I'd like to get yours. Also, has their been any analysis done on a drop zone if Cooper jumped near the Columbia?

Is is possible that the shoes were “WingWalker” chukka boots? Also, my understanding was that the paper bag brought on board the plane was small - far too small to contain a pair of shoes.

Sorry. I disagree wholeheartedly. It doesn’t matter if the statute of limitations is encroaching. It’s been 5+ years. The FBI is no where close to catching Cooper. So, Cooper buries nearly $6000 in a remote area along the riverbank? I am effort to throw off the FBI? How does that make any sense? After 5 years, Cooper should have spent or laundered every penny. And as some said, no one buries obey hoping it’s found. People bury money to hide it. Let’s not even mention that the evidence shows that the money was IN THE WATER. Did Cooper soak it prior to burying it too? Come on, at some point, logic has to win out over agenda, right?

Agree 100%. It isn’t logical behavior - especially years after the crime was committed.

If I stated that a water landing automatically means death, then I apologize. I don’t recall stating that, but if I did, it was a misstatement. What I mean is that a water landing in those conditions is highly dangerous - and if Cooper’s chute never deployed, then, well... I feel that as more we discuss this, the more we begin to agree on certain facts.

There’s nothing to confirm that Cooper didn’t jump near the Columbia. Were talking 4 minutes or less from north of Battle Ground to the shore of Columbia. No one can say with any certainty where the pressure bump occurred or even if the pressure bump meant that Cooper jumped. I have no quibble with the Palmer report. Whether the money arrived months after the hijacking or years is inconsequential. The point is that the money was in the water upriver from where it was discovered. The analysis of the diatoms is incomplete so it would be irresponsible to draw solid conclusions from it. At this point, all the diatoms seem to indicate is that the bills had fanned out some time in the warmer months. They could have been in the water, tightly packed inside the pack before that happened. It could have easily spent the cold winter months tightly packed, avoiding formosa, until one spring when the pack broke open allowing the bills free to fan out. Certainly, a water landing doesn’t equal death, but an unexpected water landing at night in poor weather into cold water while wearing loafers and a business suit with several pounds of cash strapped to your chest certainly lowers the chances of survival. Regarding Cooper planting the money as a red herring: it isn’t logical to me. He had been avoiding detection and identification by the FBI for years. Why rattle the cage and draw attention by burying money is an out of the way location? How would that have “thrown off” the FBI? And why didn’t Cooper immediately launder the money? Or spend it? Either of those choses would have made more sense than Cooper taking a wild risk by burying money on the edge of the river with the very slim chance that someone would stumble on it. Regarding the Willamette: this makes sense. However, if you suggest the Willamette, which is farther south than the Columbia, then why not just pick the Columbia? I’ll look into this further. We know Cooper jumped with the money strapped to himself. We know the money ended up in the water. The only logical conclusion is that Cooper also ended up in the water.

The location of the pressure bump is not confirmed. The science on the diatoms is not confirmed, and it is impossible to draw any timeframe conclusions from that evidence. Palmer report does nothing to eliminate the splashdown theory. Absolutely a water landing = death. Cooper either died in impact or drowned underneath the canopy. That doesn’t eliminate the splashdown theory. Again, if Cooper hit land - either safely or as a lawn dart - how did the money end up in the river?

For Cooper to survive the jump at the assumed drop zone near Battleground, but for the money to end up on Tena Bar requires a series of events to occur that are so far fetched that it is almost ludicrous. Cooper burying it as a red herring years later? Mucklow hiding it to assuade years of guilt? Cooper tossing out of the plane for reasons unknown? It requires an almost supernatural sequence of events. Sure, anything’s possible, but that doesn’t make it probable. Much easier to imagine Cooper and the money hitting the water and the money washing up downstream. That, in my mind, is the only reasonable way to square the money find with the jump.

What evidence would have to be rejected for Cooper to have jumped near the Columbia? The 50 year old Ariel dropzone has been dubious for years. how can you explain Cooper jumping near Ariel, then some of the money ending up buried near At Tena Bar?

Respectfully, I disagree. The simplest explanation is usually the best. To have Cooper successfully land and escape with the money (But never spend a dime) while simultaneously having some of the decayed money appear 9 years later dozens of miles from the assumed dropzone requires a series of events to occur that are unlikely at best and crazy at worst. Regarding the diatoms: they only indicate that the money fanned out in the warmer months, not contacted the water. The bills could easily have been packed tight in the bag for months or years before breaking open and fanning out. Lastly, Kaye’s analysis indicated the money was on Tena Bar for no more than a year. If true, then why would Cooper plant money 8 years after the crime? He had already gotten away with it? It beggars the imagination.

Got an email from Shutter today approving me. Thanks all. I will be active on all forums as they all offer valuable perspectives. The primary reason I suggest a splashdown in the river is the money. There is no way the money ended up in Tena Bar without it being in the water. If the money was in the water, then so was Cooper.

Yeah, I have tried 3 times in 2 years to get in the Forum. Never get approved lol No, Cooper and Zodiac are absolutely two different guys and two different cases. Lastly, I have no idea how large a search area would be. I know initially the search was primarily around Ariel and Lake Merwin. However, recently the timing of the “pressure bump” had been called into question. I read that the co-pilot stated that they could see the lights of the Portland suburbs (Vancouver) around the time the Cooper jumped. My guess is he jumped around Marine Park and the forward throw of the plane would splash him down Just offshore somewhere between what are now the I-5 and I-205 bridges.

I think it’s possible that he survived, but I don’t think it’s probable. I’m eager to hear information that would suggest otherwise. My best guess is that he either became disoriented and/or entered into a non-recoverable spin after jumping and splashed down in the Columbia at 200+ mph. He died instantly. His body, along with the money, floated unseen downstream during the night before finally sinking and remaining submerged. Then the 1974 dredging tore open the money bag laying on the bottom and it ended up on Tena Bar. Second option is that he managed to open the chute, but splashed down in the Columbia. The water landing at night are treacherous. A night landing making it even more so. Add in the cold water/weather and I think Cooper drowned, probably tangled in parcord or helplessly stuck between the canopy and the water. I think the key lies in the missing persons. I have heard the FBI checked, but I am dubious of how extensive that search was. Was it a national search for missing persons or just regional? Did it include folks from Canada or Mexico? If you find a missing persons from around that time frame, you’ll likely find Cooper. Again, just my partially informed opinion, and I am happy to hear opposing views and evidence.

Hi, all! I'm posting here because I still haven't been approved by the admin at the DBCooper Forum after several weeks. I'm a college professor who has spent years researching the Zodiac Killer case. In my down time investigating the Zodiac, I have examined the Cooper case. I won't pretend to be an expert on the Cooper case, but I think my logical, fact-based approach would be helpful. (Full disclosure: I don't think Zodiac and Cooper were the same guy. In fact, I don't have a POI) I'm inclined to believe that Cooper didn't survive the jump, but I'm open-minded. Anyways, I'm looking forward to productive discussion!