Chaucer

I research the Zodiac case. I don't believe I've described myself as an expert. And yes, two of the Zodiac ciphers have been solved. This has been verified by the FBI. You know this. I have shared multiple links. The fact that you refuse to accept this fact further undermines your already waning credibility. That said, I am still waiting on you to post some positive evidence for a westerly flight path. Until you have done so, I am going to consider this conversation over. Toodle-loo.

Marty, if you look closely at the USAF map there seems to be an indication of a red X just between 8:15 and 8:16 near Pearson Air Field. I can't make it out.

No, seriously. Are you OK? I'm worried about you. The discussion was about the unredacted teletype on Shutter's forum. It wasn't about you, and it wasn't here. My health is actually shit right now, but at least I know I'll never die. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell's afraid I'm going to take over. That said, I've never claimed to be an expert on anything. And despite your perpetual misunderstanding of this, I've never claimed to have solved the Zodiac ciphers. My friend and his group did, as confirmed by the FBI. So, it's been 24 hours and you still have not provided any evidence in favor of a western flight path. Just dips and dodges. How long do I have to wait? Or have you forgotten what we were talking about? Maybe you should see someone. I'm concerned.

Well, he has had 14 years of practice...

Robert? Are you well? We discussed this very topic on December 4th of last year on the Forum. Go look for yourself. The original teletype contained no nefarious or suspicious redactions. Only things redacted were related to flights unrelated to 305. This isn't complicated...do you need me to explain more simplistically?

Go to the Forum. Find the link I provided freely to everyone. Look for yourself.

No, you haven't. You've not provided a single shred of substantial credible evidence that the FBI is "sitting on compelling evidence". It's all fugazi. The whole western flight path is an invention of your imagination, and its reality rests entirely upon your personal opinions rather than any "proof".

Prove it.

Ah, Larson. I spoke with Major Larson on the telephone for about 20 minutes. He had little to offer beyond what he wrote in his letter in Aviator magazine. He said that he had nothing to do at all with the construction of the flight path. He said he didn't even know a Capt. Spangler. He said a small, skinny, desperate FBI special agent approached him and provided him the flight path, the weather, the winds aloft, the crew statements, the plane's altitude and indicated airspeed, etc. and he calculated a drop zone. He could not recall the year. He said he pulled the duty because he was a navigator on a C-130, and was the resident "expert" on drop dynamics. However, he did seem confused on the details. He said his DZ extended from Mt. St. Helens in the north to Swift Creek Reservoir to the south. He said his DZ was firmly in the Pinchot National Forest. He then went on and said that the money find in 1980 confirmed his DZ. Obviously, that doesn't make sense geographically, but the man is 84 and this happened over 50 years ago. I wasn't going to be rude and correct him. So, yeah, that's pretty much it. I don't think it really adds anything to the case evidence. He did say that he knew precisely what the crew was talking about with the "pressure bump" because C-130 crews experience them all the time when things go out the back. He called it a "blip" that you physically feel.

It was an original printout. None of this is news. I posted the link on the Forum last year. The photo of the printout with RH's handwriting is right there. And yes, R99, we have discussed the western flight path for 14 years. Discussed and discussed and discussed. And in that entire time you have provided no meaningful evidence to back up your claims. It's all opinion, feeling, spurious claims, and logical fallacies. I'm tired of it. I imagine everyone else is tired of it. The ball is not in my court. The ball is in yours. If you have evidence of an FAA/FBI cover up, present it. If you have a document, a witness statement, a recording of radar data - anything that points positively toward a western route, please present it. Because in 14 years, all its been if you making unsubstantiated claims, then getting dunked on, and then you acting indignant about it. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. So, go ahead. We're all waiting.

R99 is perfectly aware of what the teletype redactions entailed because I posted the UNREDACTED teletypes on the Forum last year after visiting Ralph Himmelsbach's grandson's home. In fact, I held the original teletype printout in my hand. Regarding the "redactions" of the Seattle ATC transcriptions, in over a decade, R99 has provided no evidence of redactions except his own personal opinions. His entire "western flight path" theory has its origin in nothing more than his personal opinions, and in over a decade all evidence for this theory amounts to nothing more than his personal opinions. If R99 has anything beyond his opinions and personal feelings regarding the "western flight path" or the "redactions", I'd be thrilled to hear it.

Classic dodge to my direct request. Also, an excellent example of the Shifting The Burden of Proof fallacy. The person supplying the new material or theory or who challenges the status quo is responsible for the supporting evidence. Attempting to disprove one theory doesn't make another theory true.

You don't do conspiracy theories? Then why do you go on and on about "redactions"? Why do you continually imply that the FAA and/or FBI is covering something up? The Western Flight Path exists because you decided "a plane wouldn't fly that way", and you have spent the last ten years using logical fallacies and unsubstantiated cloak and dagger cover ups involving mysterious redactions and feeble attempts to put some teeny tiny doubt in the USAF flight. If I'm wrong, then provide some real evidence, some real data, some document, some real witness statements that prove a WFP. You want me to wipe egg off my face, start right now.

That's why I used the word "think" lol

In ten years, you haven't even found evidence in favor of the WFP, let alone proof. You have spent an inordinate amount of time trying to undermine the accepted USAF flight path, but have never once provided a shred of evidence in favor of the WFP. It's all assumptions, speculation, implication, and opinion with a dose of conspiracy theory. It's also telling how defensive you get without even knowing what my information is. You have lost all impartiality. Now, I think we have the information to plug all the holes you have tried to exploit for your own ends. I know that may create cognitive dissonance for you, and I apologize in advance.

I discussed GEOREF specifically with him. SAGE recorded the longitude and latitude in GEOREF coordinates which then could be used to plot manually. So, in NORJACK, Flight 305 might be recorded as "from Hawkeye beacon, 305 3100 at 10". This track would then be manually plotted, read as a GEOREF coord or lat/long, then manually inputted in the AN/FSQ-7 Combat Direction Central. All of this data would be printed out on IBM cards and then manually plotted on an aeronautical map - sometimes in real time. Obviously, this is the crib notes version. I''ll provide more detail soon.

I've recently spoken with a gentleman who was a SAGE radar operator in the early 70s and later became a senior director at NORAD. He gave me the full scoop on SAGE, the data used to calculate the USAF flight path map, and the process that went into its development. We no longer have to guess or speculate. I'll be sharing what he had to say as soon as I can type is all up. SPOILER ALERT: The Western Flight is DOA if it was ever alive to begin with.

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All you need is the museum's permission to have a master rigger come by and take out the canopy, verify it's size, and repack it. It would take 30 minutes and settle all debates.

There is also the case of "Jane Arroyo Grande Doe" in Henderson, Nevada. In 1980, a dead body of a female was found raped and murdered on the side of the road. The original investigators recovered semen from the scene and encased in a glass slide, likely in the same way the Cooper hair was. Forty years later, cold case investigators tried to recover DNA from that semen to identify an offender. Unfortunately, it was discovered that the glue used in the slide eroded all the usable DNA. Therefore, it's possible that even if the hair could be extracted from the slide, the glue used to hold it in place degraded the DNA.

I think that game of telephone absolutely caused confusion - both then and after the fact. For example, the demand of how he wanted the airstairs. He wants them deployed after takeoff, then down AT takeoff, and then gets talked into having them up again. I think that is almost certainly a case of Chinese Whispers between Cooper, Tina, Rat, and Al Lee.

I'm disappointed that none of the note version say "Nod if you understand."

Here's the story from the son of the gentleman in question: The son said that ten days after NORJACK, his father and his father's best friend (who had recently been discharged from the military) were down by the Burlington Northern Railroad Bridge 9.6 . While down by the Vancouver side near the water, they found a parachute canopy snagged on a log under the bridge. The father's friend immediately recognized it as a military canopy. With the recent Cooper hijacking on their minds, they left and called the Vancouver PD. The dispatcher literally laughed at them on the phone and never even bothered to file a report. They went back the next day and the canopy was gone. I do not know which branch of the military the friend was in. If he had been in the Navy and recognized a Navy-style chute, then that's pretty remarkable IMO. For reference, Tena Bar is approximately 10 miles downstream from this location. I have the names of those involved, but the father is very ill and the friend is deceased. The son of the friend is alive and well, and could provide additional details about his father's experience, but the name is very common so a search for him has proved fruitless.

What do you mean by "military aviation"? The first two copycats were in helicopters. Helicopter crews did not use parachutes.

Army paratroopers were static line jumpers not freefall. Two totally different disciplines. Army paratroopers would never accept USAF bailout chutes. They would have no knowledge of them. He seemingly didn't know or didn't care when he was provided with Navy chutes. When presented with an older chute who would get him on the ground safely or a newer chute that would get him on the ground with a sprained ankle at best, he chose the latter. Nothing suggests he was US Army paratrooper. In fact, it seems he wasn't anything except a guy with a sliver of sport parachute experience who, in the end, really didn't know what he was doing.