Chaucer

Heisson wasn't Cooper.

What a peculiar thing to say. I'd say that the only thing I think was in error was the conflation of the oscillations and the pressure bump, and that idea isn't a new one. Sluggo, CKRET, and others had basically made this Cooper canon 15 years ago. Nevertheless, I'm no mood to fight. As I said, we have have very different views of this case at a very fundamental level, and that's fine.

Yup, we are at loggerheads on this one. Even Rat told Carr that the bump was 5 to 10 minutes after the last contact. To me the suburbs of Portland comment is 100% referring to the bump. 8:15 the plane is almost overhead Vancouver. As I said, there are fundamentals of this aspect of the case that you and I completely disagree on. A lot of it is a matter of interpretation. If my analysis is correct, I might have an answer.

Sorry, again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't read it that way at all. The jump occurred 5 to 10 minutes after last contact at 8:05 when the plane was in the suburbs of Portland. At 8:15 =/- a minute they are over Vancouver. The call to Soderlind has to be shortly after that. This lines up with all other FBI documents on the matter and matches the crew descriptions of where they were when the jump occurred.

The wording of that 302 is baffling. Doesn't make sense for Rat to use the call to Soderlind as a reference. All other FBI documentation use last contact at 8:05 as the reference, not the phone call. Either way, this points to a larger question. Where is the pressure bump report in the "company log"?

Well, sure. There's a difference between 8:11:10 and 8:11:50, so there is some play. Where do you get 5 to 10 minutes after bump? Rat says 5 to 10 minutes after last contact (8:05)

The report of the oscillations is precise because of the notation at the bottom: "time correlation", "careful playback". 8:11 is solid for the report of oscillations. We do not know how long the oscillations lasted though. Soderlind was contacted shortly after the bump, but we do not know how long. That report of the pressure bump does not exist anywhere. The question is why? I think I have an answer, but I don't have enough information to confirm.

It ultimately comes down to timing. We know a report of oscillations in the cabin rate of climb indicator was made at 8:11. Those oscillations continued for an unknown length of time and concluded with a pressure bump. There was then another unknown amount of time that passed before the report of the bump was made. So, we have: Report of oscillations: 8:11 Delay: ? Bump: ? Delay: Rataczak - "shortly thereafter".; Anderson "not sure, two minutes seems right" Report of bump: ? The other critical question is where is the report of the bump? Both Rataczak and Anderson state that Rataczak reported the pressure bump to NWA Flight Ops. For some reason, no record of that report exists in either the Harrison notes nor the teletype.

I'm inclined to believe his initial statement to the FBI over a news article 25 years later. If this statement was made, it was almost certainly not made to air traffic control. One look at the ATC transcripts show that the only communication between 305 and ATC was frequency changes, altitude checks, and altimeter reports. Talking to ATC about "our friend taking leave of us" and "shrimp boats" is completely out of pocket. Also, let's not overlook the fact that the crew seemed totally uncertain about whether Cooper was still on the aircraft. Scott is on record in multiple news articles stating that they didn't know the hijacker had left until they checked the plane in Reno. The comms also never hint that the crew believed Cooper had jumped. Again, I think this anecdote is merely Rataczak embellishing the story. Not calling him a liar or a fraud. Just an old pilot exaggerating details of an "war story". At the end of the day, I think we sharply disagree on the fundamentals of the details of the events between 8:10 and 8:10. Nothing is going to bridge that gap, so it's not worth arguing about.

Sorry, not buying it. First, this is 25 years after the fact. Second, it's a media report. Third, the only source for this anecdote is Rataczak. Doesn't appear a single time in any of the thousands of source documents released so far. Finally, and most importantly, it stands in direct contrast to his initial statement to the FBI on the night of the hijacking: Now, giving Rat the benefit of the doubt, it's possible that this report was made to NWA Flight Ops on the company frequency, but there's no record of this.

Very little question that Rat used the phrase "took leave of us", but he almost certainly did not say it to air traffic control to pinpoint a jump spot/time. By the way, I found the the SAGE radar tech who was controlling the T-33 prior the hijacking at McChord. This is what he had to say: He was working on Weapons Team 1-1 at 25NR McChord. He was running 3 on 1 mission with Oregon National Guard, but had to hand off the T-33 to join the hijack mission. The three F-101s pilots were shocked that the T-33 was diverted to a higher priority mission. Doesn't remember much else because his attention was focused on the three F-101s that did not have a target. He was sitting next to the radar guy who was running the F-106 chase jets, but doesn't remember the guy's name or much else about that night. He said he couldn't recall anything else and politely asked not to be contacted again. Out of respect for his privacy, I will not share his name publicly.

Yes, that's my point. SAGE utilized it's own coded language, but when Spangler took that printed information, he would have, as an airman, translated it into GEOREF not MGRS.

Would appear that while the rest of the military uses the Military Grid Reference System, the U.S. Air Force uses GEOREF. This would explain why the SAGE coordinates would be communicated this way.

We'll agree to disagree. I'll leave it at that.

Couple things: The stairs, while not fully deployed, descended 20 degrees. This is what would cause the pitch up. They didn't have to be fully deployed to cause the change in pitch. Are you suggesting that the stairs, while 90% deployed, would not cause a change in pitch, but a 100% deployment would cause a noticeable pitch? Also, a change in pitch wouldn't be detected on the FDR. Second, they were flying dirty. They were bouncing around in the clouds. Rat would have had to make multiple adjustments while hand flying. Why would one "little bob" be recorded? It wouldn't. For the reasons I have already delineated. Lastly, I have no doubt the plane was being hand flown. I am just not convinced Rat was the one flying it. We know Rat reported the oscillations because it's reported in the FBI files that it was the "co-pilot" who reported it, and we know he reported the pressure bump because he says so in his own statement. However, in flying there is the Pilot Flying (PF) and the Pilot Monitoring (PM). The PF is responsible for flying the aircraft. The PM is responsible for monitoring the gauges and working the radio. If Rat was flying, he would not be talking on the radio to both NWA and ATC. If he was communicating with ATC and NWA, he would not be flying. If Rat is to be believed, he was hand flying a hijacked aircraft while simultaneously monitoring the gauges and talking on the radio to NWA and ATC. Presumably, Capt. Scott was taking a nap or perhaps enjoying a bologna on rye. To underscore the idea that it was Scott flying and not Rat, you have Andy Anderson's own statement in which he says: "What we noticed was the pattern of the oscillations was continuing, and there was a very minor disruption of the slipstream. Scott said at first he wasn't feeling anything for sure, then a little later he though there was more drag and the nose was deviating a little." To me that sounds a lot like Scott was at the controls.

The change in pitch was the result of the stairs being flown down in flight, not Cooper standing on them. This is confirmed by the teletype transmission at 6:59: MSP FLT OPS HAVE NO CNTRL PROBLEM WHEN XTNDD MAY BE SUM SLITE PITCHUP BUT ERY CNTRLLBL PLANE HAS BEEN FLOWN THIS WAY HAVE LARGE BOXES OF 2 TO 3HND LBS THRU THE DOOR IN THIS CONFIG It is corroborated by Rataczak's statement at the NWA Historical Center in 2012: "Jack Waddell was absolutely right. When the stairs came down, that airplane lowered about three to five degrees, and I was hand flying it." It makes no sense for a singular "little bob" to be detected as a result of Cooper standing on the bottom step. The bob Soderlind would be expecting would result from the autopilot correcting a change in vertical speed, not a gradual change in the pitch of the aircraft. And, not for nothing, I'm not entirely convinced Rataczak was even flying the plane out of Seattle, but that's a tale for a different time.

Cooper making his way down the stairs would be a gradual process. How long? Who knows? If anything, that would be reflected in the FDR as a series of "bobs" not a singular "bob" when they were fully deployed. It seems more likely that the gradual extension of the stairs by Cooper moving down them would be reflected by the oscillations in the cabin rate of climb indicator reported at 8:11. The 727 had an early generation FDR that only recorded five parameters: indicated airspeed, heading, altitude, vertical speed, and time. The bobs Soderlind refers to would likely be an acute change in the aircraft's vertical speed due to the correction of the autopilot. Again, if the plane was being hand flown, I don't see how any bob would be detectable.

This is the quote from the NWA presentation: "Jack Waddell was absolutely right. When the stairs came down, that airplane lowered about three to five degrees, and I was hand flying it." He's referring to when the stairs were deployed, not when Cooper jumped. I think, and I'm not sure (can't source it), that the sled test demonstrated that there wasn't any perceptible movement of the aircraft when the sled was dropped. Just the bump in pressure. Personally, I think the "little bob" at 8:09 is over-stated. Soderlind was looking for something on the FDR thinking it was on autopilot when it was being hand flown and, by God, he found it.

The information from the NORAD senior director would seemingly dispel that notion. I will put together what he said and post it here. Everyone can judge for themselves.

I'm not talking about the crew feeling the "little bob". I'm talking about Soderlind finding a "little bob" . He says that by examining the FDR he expects to find "little bobs" where the automatic pilot kicked in. The plane wasn't on autopilot, so how could he find a little bob on the FDR? Doesn't make sense. I looked at the transcript of the NWA presentation, and I don't find anything about pitch up. I've not doubt Rat used the phrase "took leave". It's in the ATC transcript after all. I question whether he used that phrase with ATC. That would be something to report to NWA, not ATC.

The timing is off because there is no 8:04. It goes from 8:03 to 8:05. So anything after 8:03 should be one minute less.

Soderlind told the FBI that he would expect to find "little bobs" in the FDR because the plane was on autopilot. The plane was not on autopilot, so what is the "bob" at 8:09? Also, I have never seen where Rat said he felt the plane "pitch slightly" when Cooper jumped. Can you provide a source for that? The phrase "took leave of us" is in the ATC transcripts after the plane landed in Reno and the crew is about to exit. It is unknown who said it, but since Scott landed the plane, it would be fair to assume it was Rataczak. Perhaps, after decades, Rat confused things. "OKAY SIR BE ADVISED AH THAT WE APPARENTLY AH OUR PASSENGER TOOK LEAVE OF US SOMEWHERE AH BETWEEN HERE AND SEATTLE..."

Also, the times on your map are off my a minute. 8:10 should be 8:09 and so on.

If the aircraft was being hand flown, there shouldn't be any "bobs". Soderlind says he would detect bobs in the FDR if the aircraft was on autopilot which he believed it was. Apparently, it was not. Secondly. the first time Rataczak mentions "shrimp boats" was in 2012. In his initial 302 to the FBI immediately after the hijacking, the last paragraph he actually laments the fact that he could have pinpointed the exact exit time of the hijacker, but did not. "Rataczak added that it had not occurred to them at the time, but they could have pinpointed their exact location at the time the oscillation was felt..." Moreover, this type of communication would have been made to NWA, not ATC. My impression is that the "shrimp boat" comment is a "fish tale" that was added as an embellishment to the story by Rat post facto.

No, that's too far east. It's the spot southeast of Pearson Air Park by the river between 8:15 and 8:16.