WeakMindedFool

This is incorrect. Our exposure is higher, and ironically this makes us less likely to get most things, but the reason for universal precautions is to reduce possible opportunities to contract pathogen. It makes NO assumption about the person you are working on, alive, dead, whether they are up front about their medical history or not. The risk has been assessed, make no mistake, and that assessment is not for HIV or HEP alone but for a broad range of things in BOTH directions. I am more likely to infect a full blown AIDS patient with VRE or MRSA from my last patient (yes we clean up but staph is hard to kill. The best decon is imperfect) then from contracting HIV from him. Did you really need to say this? Please cite one case of a casual transmission of HIV (please exclude the "Bel Glade Study" as I know virologist who worked on it and they were full of shit. Following studies proved that they were wrong) hell I doubt you can produce an exaple of wound to wound transmission. HIV requires an injection of virus (Sharing needles with blood in them (junkies draw back on the syringe to insure they are in a vein before they push, contaminating the syringe in an air tight environment) blood transfussion or sex). None of the conceivable scenarios in a tandem accident will support the required injection of virus from one injured party to another (for HIV). If you want to talk about what to be cautious of, Hep can live in dried blood for a week so if you get dried blood (from a contaminated suit, falling on the same spot someone who was injured) in a wound, you can get it. As for TB, viable virus has been found in the lungs of egyptian mummies. If you wish to go down the road of disclosure of medical history at the DZ at least know what it is you should be afraid of. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

You see no distinction between negligence and gross negligence? Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Negligence - failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person would exercise under the same circumstances I would not sue in this instance...I accept the risks, I agreed not to sue. My family will honor the agreement not to sue GROSS NEGLIGENCE - Failure to use even the slightest amount of care in a way that shows Recklessness or willful disregard for the safety of others. In this case you should sue. It's your civic duty to sue. You make the industry and your friends safer. No waiver anywhere would ask you to accept an act of Gross Negligence. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Damn I voted yes without reading your post...I would not sue in your scenario. What I would sue for is if the canopy had an inherent design flaw that the manufacturer knew about and chose not to inform the jumping public for profit/liability reasons (a la Ford and GM). Which is pretty much why I would sue any company that did things with malicious intent. This is how you stop companies from doing bad shit! I would not sue one that was doing the best they could with the information they had. ps. I can't imagine a company in the sky diving community doing something like that. One thing I really like about all this (I'm real new to this...only 11 months in) is it seems most all the people I hear about in the industry are sky divers! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

You Rock! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Let's see...Source is "The Comming Plaugue" by Laurie Garret. It was a very strange but documented situation, RN doing a draw with a syringe (like a 10cc I believe) fell, large bore point into thigh, plunger into ground. I can't remember if she got the full 10cc's...but she got alot. I'm seeing a trend here, people who are in the field don't seem to care much. People who's primary source of information is the media (that's just a guess all) are alot more excited...I wonder what that means??? Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Elfanie, I see what you and Jimbo are saying, but, you are informed, you know how difficult is is to transmit HIV. All situations are not the same, as you've said HEP scares the crap out of us, so does TB, HIV doesn't even make me skip a beat now. In 1989 I was terrified of it, had my hands shaking while doing an invasive procedure on an end stage AIDS patient. Why the change now? I know lots of people who have caught TB and Hep B&C. I have never met anyone, or heard of anyone (other then the famous nurse accidentally injecting 10 cc's of tainted blood into her leg) who got AIDS from a patient. That's not to say It has never happened, but it's not the boogie man people are making it out to be. It comes down to weather or not there is a genuine significant increase in risk for the student....is there? Would the public be served by knowing someones HIV status at the DZ? I think it's been pretty well demonstrated that this person would be treated differently by many. By keeping something to yourself that causes no harm to others is not DISHONORABLE or whatever other buzz word people are using, it's self preservation. Someday we may live in a world where people are safe from intolerance, but we aint there yet! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

You can look at the posts in this thread and can see what a little lack of knowledge does to people's perceptions. People act funny when they're afraid, they attack what they fear. You have a bunch of people in this FAMILY giving bad advice about subjects they are not informed about. There was a time not 15 or 20 years ago people who should have known better were calling AIDS the "Gay Plague" despite the fact that it amplified in three places on the planet simultaneously in three very different demographics (only the SF amplification was homosexual). You may think so morally, but legally the opposite is true. Sex, tandem no different? Shit, I got cheated on my tandem!!!! edited cause I'm learnin to use those 'mark up's' Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Word! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

I'll do a tandem with you...hell I'd practice jujitsu with you. I wouldn't have sex with you or share a needle with you. If I was working on you after you tatered in, I'd wear gloves...maybe goggles, but maybe not. In my world every single one of you is HIV+, Hep B through H positive, have TB and are off your anti-psychotic meds with a hidden loaded gun in your pocket. Contracting HIV from wound to wound transmission is hard...really, really hard. Medical professionals assume everyone is crazy and infectious, this is how you protect yourself. If someone at your DZ is injured and you are not using body isolation precautions (glove,goggles) you are being as foolish as if you were having unprotected sex. Your threat to a student is not zero...but it's close. In fact the threat to you is much higher then the threat to them as you are immunosuppressed and they aren't! Lastly peoples perceptions are worthless, everyone in the world who doesn't skydive thinks we're crazy anyways, we're not. People will be afraid of catching HIV from you, they won't. Get the facts from YOUR doctor and make your decisions accordingly. Peace Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

The jump I made today was with the general manager of the DZ also an experienced CRW guy. The plane stayed with us for awhile...now I know why. We got pretty close but of course we didn't touch. Get an instructor to jump with you...You're gonna LOVE it! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

The question I put to you is; what would you do [now] to extricate us from Iraq, without that country devolving back into mass violence. Well the answer is, it's going to suck! The suckiness, however, can be minimized. Day one we should have put the Iraqi troops on the payroll instead of letting them melt away into the countyside (a plan put forth by powell...and ignored). We will never, never, never beat the zelots, the only thing we can hope to accomplish is to shrink their ranks. This war is going to be lost or won based on economics. You hate welfare? We just created one of the largest welfare states in history. The USSR was bigger but at least they had infrastructure to work with. We either raise the economic expectations of the poulation or we fight a war of attrition. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Manifast had winds at altittude...pilot drpped us to the north of the DZ and the spot was perfect! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

We had gone up to do some RW and after seeing the clouds, damn we had to play. I need to start carrying a disposable camera! I most def will do this again! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Did a hop & pop from 11,500 today...Why didn't anyone tell me how cool that was?!? A little cold up there but tall puffy clouds with lots of holes (good and legal) big peaks and valleys. Got someone to jump with me and hot damn, want to do CRW now! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

There is actually a whole bunch...you can even buy one out of Aero Trader for the low price of $900,000! Most are set up for firefighting, and they've had a bit of a problem pulling out of dives of late...Most aren't set up for skydiving. You could get on the USFS web site and see what the smoke jumpers use, It's almost assureedly a private contractor (All USFS aircraft are) with a large ship that's set up for skydiving.. GL Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

"Man Bites Dog" Was the most Controversial in my brain! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

The beauty of the usenet is that it's not peer to peer. You can run into probs uploading tho... Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Get on the Usenet! Check out Easynews.com Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

So you object purely on semantics? Language evolves, gay, cool, bad, fuck they all mean different things now then their roots. I couldn't care less what anything is called. I also don't think those opposed to homosexuals getting hitched (sorry about the poor usage) give a crap (damn did it again) about that. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

I agree that most people in this country believe in one God or another. I think the founding fathers did envision a country where the free exercise of religion remained free. Free being the operative word here. If you, or even the majority of folks out there find homosexuality moraly repugnant. that's fine. It's when you attempt to limit the state from making a civil distiction (such as marrige) based on that morality that we are at odds. It's not a lifestyle that I would choose for myself. I may, however, have some things about my lifestyle that you may find moraly questionable. If I wish to remain free, if you wish to remain free to excercise your personal faith, the only way to safegaurd those freedoms is to insure them for others. You find yourself in the majority, right now. It takes very little to change the political and social landscape. You may find yourself in the minority eventually, and if you do will your rights be protected? I'm not asking you to accept gay marrige as a good thing, I'm asking that you not force your version of morality on those of us that don't share it. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Ask Darius11 how much fun it is to live in a country where the religious get to make the rules. I don't share your belief and don't want to. If you try to force me or those like me we will react badly. If you make laws and tell me it's your God who handed them down don't be surprised when we all start laughing. It doesn't take a very serious student of history to see the flaws of any "Faith based"....well anything! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

Thanks for putting it in perspective dude! Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

This is a grab at changing an institution whose purpose has been to embody the religious union between a man and a woman with a purpose of procreating. Again, not all people see marrige the same. I certainly see no religious significance to marrige. I didn't get married in a church. If a religion chooses not to marry gay poeple that is there right. It's the state making the same moral distinction I take issue with. Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos

This is a grab at changing an institution whose purpose has been to embody the religious union between a man and a woman with a purpose of procreating. It pushes one lifestyle into the conerstones of other lifestyles with no regard to tradition or the rights of these institutions. The legal system does not need to step on the traditions of the established institution to provide the equal benefits that are sought. The Institution itself has no rights. Just because allowing differnt thinking people to enjoy the benefits that the rest of us enjoy should have no bearing on how we view ourselves. The same argument could have and was used to keep black folks and women from voting (a time honored tradition for land owning white men) or to keep mixed race marriges illegal. That's another thing I love about America...we try to learn from our mistakes...mostly... Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves. -Eric Hoffer - Check out these Videos