mikkey

ooops. Thanks for clearing this up. This urban legend is very wide spread. However, the issue of horns on helmets and vikings is true. I am scandinavian and been in many Viking museums and have never seen a viking helmet with horns... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Off Topic, but did you know that the Vikings never had helmets with horns? AFAIK that myth was invented in Holywood movies. Similar with Santa. The Santa we know today is a result of a Coca Cola marketing campaign. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, I had a few good discussions here with people I disagree with but still had a good exchange of opinion and facts. When it stays a civil argument I enjoy the discussion. Unfortunately it happens very often that people do not want a discussion, they want to “slam” people. So they post either “one liners” or off topic rants that include attacks on the poster (his/hers motives, believes etc.). Some of these people also revert to using racial and other stereo types or suggest the extermination of countries etc. This is often when it gets very heated and the threads deteriorate quickly. I have been sucked in a couple of times, but now I choose to leave the discussion when it comes to this point or do not even enter it. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

MO of the right wing “club” on “Talk Back” 1) Post dubious “news” from a dubious source and declare it fact. 2) All other “club” member chime in, backslapping each other delighted how they shown off those “non-believers” 3) If nobody reacts to a post from the “club” for about 30 minutes – it will be claimed that those “lefties” have no come back or are too scared… 4) If somebody questions the “facts” or the “source”, presents an alternative view or even can provide documented facts contravening the “clubs” posts then there are 2 strategies employed: a) Ignore facts / arguments and attack poster (typical “leftie” full of hate/spin – anti-American – move somewhere else –etc. etc.) b) Stray off topic and mix one issue with another. Normally this includes making false claims about what the poster actually has written. (plus some attacks on a more personal level) 5) Always attack in packs and do not forget to congratulate each other for doing so. Those threads are of course “dead”. People who enjoy a civil and useful discussion cannot be bothered to continue or people get pissed off with the “club” and end up in name calling contests. I am in the first category. Good night. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What the hell did we spend our time on discussing in this thread? My initial post in this thread was an article documenting how Ghadaffi had changed behaviour over a number of years and how different "pressures" applied for more then 20 years had influenced that. Did you not read that? That was the whole basis of discussion that there is an alternative view to the "Iraq war makes Libya give up WMD's". That he did not just look at Iraq and then changed his mind within the last few weeks. Like talking to a wall. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Discussing with you is a waste of time. You have shown often enough that you are not able to have a coherent discussion and that you are not reading (comprehending) other peoples posts and you stray off topic. Your rants normally include racist and bigot views so I wont waste my time on you. Maybe others will but not me. You are on my “ignore list”. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, nothing new in this. I wont search for this now, but may I point you amongst other to Powell's big presentation in the Security council "documenting" that Iraq had WMD's. GWB's State of the Union, etc. etc. The excuse to go to war was that there was a) clear proof that Iraq had WMD's ready to go b) That this was a clear and present danger c) That they were building new WMD's like nuclear weapons. The lack of Iraqi compliance in regard to documenting where the unaccounted WMD's were was NOT used as the MAIN argument for going to war. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Now Juanesky, that article has no credibility because it's from a US news source. Have you learned nothing from this thread? Hmmm, this thread is about Libya changing policies. The article is about a conference of Arab countries around the Gulf (all US allies) discussing terrorism. Nothing to do with the Libya issue being discussed. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

quote]I also don't understand why more credibility is given to news sources from other countries than the US media I agree with that, but different perspectives are healthy. I personally do read and view news from a number of countries and I find it useful. The US media has a certain "way" of looking at things - so getting e.g. a European perspective is not bad. And BTW this has nothing to do with "right or left". I do not agree with that. If you look at the whole history of sanctions, they had an impact on the development of Libya's position. This includes admitting to terrorist acts, delivering the suspects to trial and paying compensation. That was an important step towards what has happened now - i.e. Libya does not want to be an outsider anymore and wants to develop its economy. I tend to disagree. The assumption was not so much made on the Iraqi's lack of evidence underpinning their claim of having destroyed their WMD's - it was based on intelligence that they had WMD's. This intelligence was based on dubious sources and the US and UK chose to eat it "raw" - which is not normal practise in intelligence circles. If you are going to war, you should be more careful with these things. It would have been "ironic" if Libya would have used a nuclear weapon against Israel and the US & UK would have no idea beforehand while they are chasing "alleged" WMD's in Iraq. WMD’s are an important issue and with all the money spent on intelligence it would be nice to see them getting the facts right... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Maybe I am more focussed then you - I think my reply was relevant. You were saying that the strategies of the US government have worked. And your main point was lack of attacks inside the US. And then you agree with my post. Now I am confused, no you are confused... anyway... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think it naive to think it either the terrorist get what they want or they are totally annihilated. Neither will happen. What has to happen is to get the key figures and limit the operational ability of Al Qaeda. This is why the capture of UBL is important. It has been shown that the capture of a number of key Al Qaeda people did restrict the operational ability of Al Qaeda. Example: The capture of Hambali (Spelling?) in Bangkok has disrupted the co-ordination between Al Qaeda and SEA associates like JI. It is actually believed the capture did prevent an attack on the recent APEC meeting. We will never be able to completely stop terrorism, but we should aim to limit it to a minimum. Hitting the logistics (i.e. money flow) and the key coordinators will disrupt the operational abilities. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You have not been attacked on US soil and we do not know if and when it will happen again and we do not know if the actions taken so far have prevented these attacks. However we know: 1) There is still a threat for attacks in the US or you would not have the alert. If you want to reduce the threat of attack you need to go after Al Qaeda (not Saddam). 2) There have been a number of terror attacks outside the US since 9/11: Examples: Bali bombing killing 200+ people of this ~ 100 Australians (your allies) 20/30 or so Brits (your allies) and also a few Americans plus people from other "coalition" countries like Denmark. Riyad bombing killing dozens including a number of Americans. Istanbul * 2: Bombing of Synagogues and the bombing of the British targets. Hundreds killed in these attacks. And there are a few more I could mention. Now these attacks were not in the US but they were directed against both US interests and especially your allies. Now this is supposed to be a "global war" on terror. If you are happy for people being blown up outside the US as long as attacks do not happen within the US, then you will loose the international support very quickly. And you will be experiencing another 9/11 at some stage. The only way to avoid these things is to work internationally and focus on Al Qaeda. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

What about reading the whole thread? Here is a suggesting from my post: --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

You should also look at coming to the Easter Boogie in Nagambie if you can. That is always very good and the parties are legendary... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Quite simply, if the bastards try fucking up our Christmas, we should cheerfully drop a nuke on their hly fucking city of Mecca and then tell them that's just a start. And I'm a liberal Grateful Dead brown rice hippie type, so put that in your pipes and smoke it. Yes that is "simple" - nuke a few hundred thousands innocent people and destroy Islam’s holiest site because you get attacked by a few terrorists who might be Muslims. Hmm, so if a catholic blows up a building in the US you would then put a nuke on to Rome & the Vatican I assume. Your comments are extremely racist. "hly fucking city of Mecca" - why are you celebrating Christmas? You do not seem to understand even the most basic idea of Christianity. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

This is why women are from Venus and man are from Mars. If a man can avoid a lot of shopping for presents he would be happy. A female gets depressed.... I wish you very happy Christmas. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

I think the constant “oversimplification” spin of the US administration has an effect on a few people. I really do not think that you guys understand how the “terrorists” work. Al Qaeda is neither an Army that goes to war here or there (i.e. goes coordinated into Iraq to fight the US) nor is it even a firm organisation with a chairman, treasurer, board, formal communication etc. It is a “loose” network between many small global radical Islamic groups who use violence and terror as a means to achieve their goal. Groups like Jemaah Islamiah (JI) in SEA who were responsible for the Bali bombing, are on the rise again because the focus has been on Iraq. JI would never go to Iraq to fight US troops, but they would happily try to blow up US/UK and Australian tourists somewhere in Asia. The flypaper theory is ridiculous if you know anything how Al Qaeda is organised. The main force the US is facing are disgruntled Iraqi’s who lost power and influence. Very little is known how many “foreign” fighters are involved and if any “co-ordination” from Al Qaeda is involved. Al Qaeda and the groups like JI who are associated, are looking for “soft targets” not heavily armed troops. Why do you think the alert level has just been raised in the US? UBL is an important figure head of Al Qaeda – especially because it is loosely organised and not much/regular communication is going on between the groups. That is why it would be a great blow to capture or kill UBL as this would remove the rallying point. Why do you think that UBL does the video or audio tapes sent to satellite TV stations. It is probably currently the only efficient communication channel they have. Removing UBL from the picture might trigger some attacks in the short terms but would do great damage to the terrorist network in the medium term. The focus on SH was in my opinion a mistake. The allies should have finished the job in Afghanistan and captured UBL first, then move onto whatever was next on the agenda. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The first number (8590) is sequential, i.e you are the 8590's person to get A license with the APF. The second number is your APF membership/reference number. Reason being that when you get your B the license number is different, C different again etc. The APF number always stays the same. Hope this explains it. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

The altitude was only in reference to a "12 minute benchmark".There are no problems going higher to what ever is allowed in your part of the world. My DZ does all lifts to 14 K and I have been told that they expect a total "turnaround time", i.e. time from take off to landing to be 15 minutes for 14 K with the XL. Note that the 12 minutes at 11.8 K was related to a fully loaded plane with 17 jumpers. Most lifts at my DZ do not go with the last spot "squeezed" in - typical you would have 14/15 jumpers on a load. Thats why I they think it is 15 minutes turnaround (probably based on talking to DZ's in NZ who already have the XL in service). --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Well, this is not so much about which countries media you use, this is about looking at things a little bit more in depth then what is fed you by Government spin doctors and "15 second grabs". The guy who wrote this is a prof at the Centre of International Studies, Cambridge University - and his perspective is about looking at the total context of the pressure applied to Libya for over 20 years. That's really all. I think the Libyan situation is quite different from Iraq (including that Libya actually has WMD...) so the spin that this came suddenly because of Iraq (i.e. another "justification" ) is probably an oversimplification of the situation. Just a footnote about the competency of the intelligence services. I noticed reports that the intelligence services in the US and UK ware very surprised about the extent of the Libyan WMD program. Funny - they told us that Iraq had lots of WMD and they don't have much, they did not believe Libya had much and they have massive programs. Now why are the taxpayers of these countries paying so much money to their intelligence services if they can't get it right on vital issues like this? --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

Yes, they seem to be busy. I just heard that the new XL which was expected my home-DZ on Jan 5 will be delayed. I'll find out for how long when I'll go out there Boxing day. Will post pics and first impressions as soon as it arrives... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

No jumps in spite of warm summer weather. I did my yearly Christmas party - feeding and entertaining 30 people. No time for jumping, that has to wait until Boxing Day. --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

LOL - at least you bring some humour into your political thoughts. Well done. When you quoted Animal House - I knew you had a good sense of humour. I class people into 2 categories, those who think Animal House is the best "youth" film ever made or those idiots who don't.... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.

So the whole thread is based on some political motivated misrepresentation of an event. Not the first time this has happened. This thread should be locked (IMO). As mentioned before MO of the "club" is: Step 1: Find some dubious material from a dubious source and post it as fact. etc. etc. And in in regard to captainpooby: 43? You really don't have any excuses... --------------------------------------------------------- When people look like ants - pull. When ants look like people - pray.