Ron

OK...so a gun would not have changed this. You use a crystal ball to find this out? Maybe he only attacked those who tried to fight him? Do you have evidence that he would have gone wild or are you guessing? Imagine how this owuld have played out if those who defended themselves with chair legs had a pistol? He would have shown up with a sword and been dead in seconds. So an armed populace could have SAVED lives huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't know...But I don't have a big problem with a legal immigrant with a weapon. Good question. I don't see a big difference between a guy that has not sworn yet and a guy that has. Tobacco had a product they KNEW was dangerous, but they claimed it was safe. I don't think anyone doubts a gun can be dangerous, and I don't see anyone claiming they are "safe". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Both are proof that you don't need a gun to kill unlike what you say. Then you claim the "scope" of death with a gun is bigger...But the terrorists did not use a single gun and killed 3,000 people. So your scope argument falls flat on its face. True. However you claim that the scope with a gun is bigger...Well both a nuke and a hijacked Airliner will kill more than a gun. It seems common sense is not so common up there...It might be due to the cold. See people kill people. Guns or a sword (or a nuke, or an airliner) are tools. This story shows that even if you outlaw guns people will still kill people. Look at DC they have RESTRICT gun laws and yet people still die (Largest murder rate in the US) and they USE GUNS...But Gasp!!!! Guns are illegal there! How did that happen?!?!?! Simple a criminal will not follow a "law" you pass...Hence why they are "criminals". You fail to grasp the very simple concept that a criminal will not follow a law they don't like. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So if you are an ILLEGAL alien...Ok I can agree to that. You don't have the same rights as a Citizen. "ties" So? What about innocent till proven guilty? OK so? If you are not illegal, not shown guilty of a crime...Whats the problem? If these guys are on "Watch lists" then I hope they are being "Watched". Until they are PROVEN guilty in a court, they are innocent. Again where is the ACLU? I mean if all it takes is being "watched" to have your civil liberties removed why are they not jumping into this? What is the national interest? In this case it seems removing guns from people who are innocent. I have NO problem removinga criminal from buying a gun. I have no problem WATCHING at potential suspect...I do have a problem with someone removing a RIGHT without a reason. Ford will not get sued and held liable if I run over a 5 year old on my way home....Why should Smith and Wesson be held liable? Thoughts? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have no problem with that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is this is not happening. People are getting on Demos/student jumps without the skills needed. I like the idea of a license to do both....But the problem (as you pointed out) is people having a buddy "pencil whip" the license. The problem is not the license, but the jackass that just signs shit off without the conditions being met. Agreed, and when I was on a demo team if you were not on target you did not jump...even if you had the license ect. Except for this...I am FOR being able to prove you can do what you need to do. I am not about an organization doing something just to make money. So in the case of what I thought was going on in the Tunnel case...I saw an organization that provided no benefit for the card other than to do what people were already doing..That *seems* to not be the case with the tunnel coaching. As for Gun restrictions I am FOR tighter regulations and manditory training to carry. I am also for much more restrictive regulations for the PRO rating. I let mine lapse since I had not done a demo in two years...even though I was able to still land on target (and did for my sign off every year) I gave it up since one dead center a year is not enough to be considered "current" to do a stadium demo. I think very few people have any business doing a demo. Those that can do them train to do them...I was doing 300 jumps a year just for target practice. Some guy that does 100 fun jumps a year and only goes for a target for his rating, and on a demo...Well he should either train more, or not do the demo. I would also... I'd like to see a license that has the requirement to be "skilled" in two or three of a group of areas....Kinda like the PADI Master card. Out of: 4way/8way (X number points, or X average), big ways (multi plane loads with you having been both in the lead and trail plane), head down (Like the AD), CRW (4 stack), Video , INSTRUCTION (Ratings)...ect you would have to show skill in say three or 4 of them. This would allow me who has no interest in headdown to get it, while allowing a freeflyer to still be able to qualify without doing 4way. And it allows people who would never do CRW to qualify. I would also require a cutaway. First thing you have to do is make it so no one "pencil whips" anything. Then you have to make it so that the rating actually means something. If the standard coach rating needs to be harder, then it should be harder. Thats up to the USPA, but they seem more eager to down dumb it than make the rating mean something... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, you keep claiming that guns are bad and evil, but its clear that outlawing them does not work. The WTC guys didn't have a single gun on them. Wow your theories just fall apart don't they? As soon as that one guy that you put so much faith in gives you your opinion let me know. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I like the PRO rating. Its not that hard and if you can't do it you have NO business doing a demo. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

#1 they would be Magazines, not clips...This shows you watch WAY to much TV and get your ideas about guns from Movies. #2. How much you wanna bet that if you wanted to get a full auto weapon you could? Even in lovely Canada? Say what you want, people will kill people. Also, outlawing guns only makes it so outlaws have the guns. See criminals don't care about a law...See they are criminals see? No respect for the law. Only the law abiding citizens obey the laws..Bad guys will not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is also a strawman. Removing all restrictions also does not work. Why don't you take a stand instead of slamming other peoples? Its called the "show you mine of you show me yours" line of thinking. Otherwise we have a term for you...Its called sniper. You sit back and never offer anything of value, but pop up and take pot shots at others ideas. Sure, Capitalism even with the EXTREME case of Enron and the sort works much better than Communism that has failed on a large scale over and over. It works in the long term better than a Dictatorship, or Monarchy as evidenced time and time again. You can "snipe" and use Enron and Martha Stewart...Ect all ya want. Want me to list the Companies where Capitalism works? I could just open almost any phone book, but lets keep it simple. How about Sandler O’Neill & Partners? They lost 66 of their 171 employees in the WTC. Despite its dire financial straits, the firm sent every deceased employee’s family a check in the amount of the employee’s salary through the end of the year and extended health-care benefits for five years. Or how Bank of America donated office space for them to use? Competitors sent commissions their way and freely gave the company essential information that was lost with the traders who had died. Bigger Wall Street firms took it upon themselves to include Sandler in their deals. For every example of a "bad" business, I can find plenty more that are "good". Of course nothing can withstand a lazer focus and all organizations have issues, but to claim that due to a few issues or a few Large "bad" companies that all are is an example of an Inductive Fallacy . The ones you use here are: Hasty Generalization: the sample is too small to support an inductive generalization about a population. Unrepresentative Sample: the sample is unrepresentative of the sample as a whole. And when you compare things like the War on drugs to border patrols and Illegal imigration you are using, False Analogy: the two objects or events being compared are relevantly dissimilar. See you fall into the general trap of cynicism But its more fun to "snipe". Class can anyone identify this Fallicy? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

UH,.....NO!

Outside Air temp, Altitiude, and Humidity all effect the density of the air. Hot, High and Humid is a pain in the ass if you are flying. Dry, Cold, and Sea Level is great. Florida in July is Hot and Very Humid....It makes a big guy like you have some problems in any tunnel (also makes take offs longer). Fl is at sea level however. Perris is 1500 feet msl. In Nov they have cool conditions and it is VERY dry. Florida in Nov is nice and not as dry, but not humid either. So given the same conditions both tunnels are the same. Perris in July would have altitude and hot air working against it. Orlando in July has Hot, and humidity working against it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why os it MY job as an American to pay for a Mexicans Health care? Just cause they can sneak accross the border? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I meant "Shag" as in "have sex with". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hell get the guy that is shagging students off the DZ. Let the Instructors shag the students "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You have to define what is good. The course is not hard (I have never taken it...Just going on what others said) But they are not teaching really difficult stuff. If they meet the standards, then they have met the standards and are coaches. It does not need "great skills". No rating course's need great skills...You just have to meet the standards. If a person has met the standards, then they have met the standards. Take that up with the USPA. But what if they passed the coach course? Remember back in the day you only needed 100 jumps to be a S/L jumpmaster. And most did a good job. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Physical deterioration leads to mental. Skydiving is not rocket science. I don't think you should tunnel for more than 1 min if you are pushing it for 4way. Marathon sessions just bring endurance, which is good, but for speed one min all out. Its part of an overall training plan. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Cause the KA 200 was not all it was cracked up to be. Big plane with a small door. Yes, it had what was called "The Front Porch", but it is still a small door. It didn't stay around long...It was fast, but it needed a pretty large load to make money. As for the PAC 750...It was NOT designed for jumping. They took a cargo model and made a few factory changes to make it a new jump plane. Up until then most aircraft had to be modified AFTER they came out of the factory. It is the first (To my knowledge) FACTORY built jump plane...But it was in no way designed as a jump plane. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

AH, but it it allowed to fly with that big door removed? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Both? They said he was not more than they said he was. Uh Bill...He had them, we have the recipts. Government officials also said that SH had WMD's.....So what is your point? Some siad he had them, some said he did not....We knew he had some since we GAVE TEHM TO HIM....He never complied with the resolutions.... See, if he had played along and complied there would have been nothing done ever.... No. You know how many threats we get a DAY? You bitch about us doing something about WMD intel, but bitch about us doing nothing on other intel? One we knew a guy had WMD (Remember we gave them to him), we knew he would use them (He did remember?). The other we have some terrorist plot right out of a Clancy novel. But I find it funny you bitch about us going on one set of intel, but not running like hell on the other. And I bet if we had intel that said, "Some guy, is gonna do something bad, to someone, at some point, in the next few odd years".....As long as it fit your needs you would say it pointed to 9/11. But when we had intel that said SH didn't have WMD's...since it didn't fit your agenda it was bad. Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I was kidding...But now maybe some nice single Orlando jumper might be interested in helping you. Guys? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So he should have shot her on the spot? He wanted toake sure she was gone. If he had tried a day later, I would have found that strange. Also, I am sure that her wishes were along the lines of "No hope for recovery" I am betting that he really tried to bring her back. Reports said that he kept trying things long after the Dr's said she was gone. He gave then no such BS. Religious nutbags and Dr's looking to make money gave them hope. Totally false. They were in the room till they started acting like assholes. Then they were told to leave since they were acting like assholes. Your impression is not law. I know plenty of folks that don't like other folks. Your weekend boss is hated by many. Starving her was the only way to end it. I can't blame Mike for loving his wife. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, cut her in half. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Probley help if you posted some pics I jest...Well ok not really. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you can afford one, I'd keep it. Cheap insurance for being really stupid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334