Ron

The Dr's have a responsability to provide LIFE SAVING care. Thats kind the opposite of an abortion. The hospital can refuse to allow an abortion, and then the person can simply go have it done someplace else. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It makes the lining unable to support a fetalized egg. The egg and sperm have already combined. Your knowledge is off. Telling someone how to kill BTW is also against the religion. So if you believe (As most strong Catholics do) that life begins at conception, then advising about an abortion is wrong. This from a guy that has TWICE jumped into a conversation with someone else and tried to claim something else? Reference posts 171, 185. Thats funny. You know what else I find funny? The same types of folks that bitch about religion being involved with politics and want it kept out are the same types that want the Government to dictate to religion what they can an can't do.... I find that really funny. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Church would say they answer to a higher power. But you want to force them to do as you wish. Like maybe a non religious hospital. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is the same thing. If you took the pill BEFORE having sex it is a contraceptive. Wrong. Telling someone how to have one is also against the religion. Sharing that knowledge is against the core. sure you do...Its what we have been talking about. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can get an abortion someplace else. You can get the info that an abortion is available from someone else... How stupid do you have to be to NOT know you can get an abortion? They can also get that information from...Oh I don't know HER PARENTS!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The bill is telling a religious hospital that they have to tell someone how to take a babies life....A directive directly against the Religions core beliefs. The person can get the information form someplace other than a church. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So? when you get discharged go down the street and have the baby vacumed out. You are telling me that people don't know about ABORTION? Forget the damn pill, a person can still get a good old fashin' vacum the fetus out abortion all day long. The very CONCEPT of the pill is against the religion. Yet you want to force them into something YOU wnat them to do? Hows that for PRO choice? And that is the CHURCH'S RIGHT!!!!! The Church is trying to do a good thing, but its not enough for you. They must also go against the very core beliefs that made them want to help others to make you happy. And that is somehow the Churchs fault? Stupid people are everywhere. You want a Church to break its own core beliefs for a few really stupid peole that seem to have lived in a vacum for the past 30 years. And it is trying to force one religion to go against its core beliefs. How much ground do you have to give to make liberals happy? We already have covered how some on this thread want the hospital to give the damn pill. Next they will want the hospital to GIVE abortions... The hospital should not be forced to do anything....Anymore than a woman should be forced to have a child they don't want. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dude its an answer to a question: If you want abortion advice or procedures DON'T GO TO A FUCKING RELIGIOUS HOSPITAL. Don't expect a RELIGIOUS HOSPITAL to advise on abortion or perform them, or perscribe the damn Morning after pill. Don't try to make them. If a person wants an abortion (I don't care WHY) they can go get one at many places in the US. DON'T EXPECT OR TRY TO MAKE A PLACE FOUNDED ON RELIGION TO ENCOURAGE OR DO THE PROCEDURE. It is not your right to try and make them. It is not their right to stop you from getting one. This is the thing that kills me about "Pro-Choice" people....They are so damn forcefull about trying to make that choice for others. You want PRO choice, how about not forcing others into what you want? If you want to get an abortion go fucking get one. But don't expect a CHURCH to say its a good idea. HOW IS THAT HARD TO UNDERSTAND? How many people are so stupid that they can't look "Abortion" up in the damn dictonary? So even if they don't get that from a RELIGIOUS Hospital, they can still do it. Why are you so damn persistant to tell a RELIGION what to do? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Over 500 in 98. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, but should you force a Dr or hospital that disagrees with abortion to provide it? Anyone that wants an abortion can still get one, just not at a religious hospital. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Here is one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There fixed it for you. (It was after all the reason I started this thread) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If Mexicans can run or swim across what is preventing the Taliban from doing the same thing? Can't the Taliban swim? There is NOTHING wrong with enforcing the LAWS. Illegal immigration is...well ILLEGAL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You have never been to Zhills. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The USPA had to fight an attempt at the Government to make Tandems joy rides and therefore taxable as such. (One of the few things I think the USPA has done well). They have all the say they want. The FAR's were not written by the USPA the FAA wrote them. All they did was think "airplane that falls". Thats why most of the FAR's deal with planes, certifications, and equipment. Like it or not the FAA decides if someone can be under the infulence...And they are not likely to change their opinion. The FAA does not give a rats ass about your fun. They are about safety. Show me ONE extreme sport where alcohol is allowed by the participants. I could list 5 well known organizers off the top of my head that jump stoned. There was just a bounce in NJ of a guy that was twice the legal limit. We had a good canopy pilot drink half a bottle of alcohol and try to perform a night hook turn in MS. These are just two off the top of my head. Nope if they LIE then why would we be at fault? We are not cops, we are not responsible for determaning if someone is legal to drive/jump...But you want to make it so we ARE responsible. So if we make the wrong call it will be your ous ass in the sling. After all we knew they were drunk and we let them jump. The FAA does not see that as a "minor" rule. Why not? Well it opens us up to a whole new level of litigation risks. I know several stoners that would say that being stoned an jumping is just fine. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Come after my lawnmower and I'll shoot you "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There are people who have said they thing the religious hospital should *give* the pill. Still a religious hospital should not have to do something that is against its core beliefs. Never forget that a woman can have an abortion mths later. If they are so stupid as to not know that then they should not be allowed to have kids. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Keep in that line then Drs should not do anything since everything that happens is Gods will....Including killing. However most people can see a CLEAR difference between killing and rendering aid to save or create life. Only god (If you believe in him) can create life, but any jackass can take one. Your argument is still weak. The Hippocratic Oath (classic version) says: "I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect.(That means no abortion pill) Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy (That spells it out). In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art." The new one: "Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death (Abortion is death). If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God." BTW I am for Abortion, and not religious at all...But I don't think a RELIGIOUS hospital should be forced to do them, or perscribe the morning after pill. Got to the Pagan hospital down the road. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Because it will be seen as cool, and them as nice for thinking green. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK...But "Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death...it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God" ???? God (If you believe in him) gives and takes life. This section of the oath does not say anything about keeping secrets. No offense but that is a weak argument. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How is it hard to understand that a Dr at a RELIGIOUS hospital will see abortion as wrong? Dr's take the Hippocratic Oath. There are two versions this is the new one written in 1964: The classic one by Hippocrates What part of "I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy." Or "Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death...it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God." Is hard to understand? At a religious hospital they should be free to not perscribe a medicine that will kill even if you ask for it. Don't like it, go to the pagan hospital down the street. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK. It seems you are saying that Tuna only posted the things he did since you claim he was paid. It could be seen as an attack and you agreed. Now do I think it was something that would piss a normal person off? Nope. But it did piss someone off. *even that could be seen as an attack if you like. So your post was not a direct attack. Thats pretty clear. And like I said I only brought it up to show that I did understand more about this than just the surface. I am quite surprized that no mods have arrived. I have seen plenty of attacks in the last few days in several threads by several posters that would have gotten me banned before....I wonder if the mods are feeling OK Again, I don't think you were attacking him, but it could be seen that way...either way it effects me none. In truth I just wanted to be balanced while I defended you from blatant attacks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Next time bring pie. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It also is a minor issue. My whole point of the last few posts is that DM is I think out of line with the attacks. I posted my thoughts that it could be considered an attack from your original post since they show how I understand his side. There is no secret that you have no love for Tuna or myself due to our views...I can live with that. Your original post could be seen as an attack if he was here or not. I think you are more likely to bring it up since he is not here is my thinking. This I did not know. So maybe you would have posted it if he was here. But it was his right then not to discuss his reasons just as you in the past have refused to discuss things with me. Not at all. My post was in (are you ready for this?) defense of you since all DM has done is attack you, not your idea. Like I said I mentioned how your initial post could be seen as an attack as well...You even agreed that it could be. I have not suggested anything other than DM to give an opinion and not just attack you. I don't have an opinion on your "attack" other than it could be seen as one. I did have an opinion on your idea, and wrote about that already. I don't think he was a paid person. I think he got banned and then found a life off these forums. His motivation for posting I am sure is no different that yours...You both (and I) have opinions and agenda. How silly would it sound if I said you were getting paid by some organization for the advancement of gay rights? I don't doubt that there are people doing what you say....And Tuna has a "smoke and mirror" quality about him that could make him suspect. But I tend to think that the way he did his "job" would have done more damage than good and therefore not likely. He didn't win people over, and he didn't try to. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You have trolled him (posting something to elicit a response): That had nothing to do with his post, but you latched on to it. You have flat out attacked him: This has nothing to do with the post, only the poster. I am the LAST guy a person would think to *defend* someone from attack, but all of your posts have been nothing but trolls themselves (the U2 over Mini me was quite funny however). Never forget Narcimund hates me and has said EXACTLY that in these forums. And I still think you are being hard on him and attacking him not his post. You of course are free to ignore me, or ask me to bring pie. You seem to be a smart guy and it might be fun if you provided an opinion about his thought instead of attacking him. I personally think he is WAY off, and yes I think he is attacking Tuna since Tuna is not here to defend himself. I think his very post is an attack. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334