Ron

Yes, lets. He has a piece of paper that says he is married to a lump of human tissue with the IQ of a plant. He waited 8 years before he asked if he was the right person to carry out her wishes. Terri died 8 years ago. The lump of tissue that lays in that bed is not human anymore. All of the things that make us alive are gone. Court appointed Dr's say that it is a lost cause and with her Ceribral Cortex turned to mush that there is ZERO chance she will ever recover Lets look at the Court record: She cannot divorce him since she is brain dead. Check the pictures out below...One is Terri's brain CT scan, the other a normal human. Source http://www.miami.edu/ethics2/schiavo/CT%20scan.png None of the 17 affidavits are by providers who examined Schiavo. Only one of the 17 providers claims to have reviewed her medical records. The remaining 16 providers apparently based their statements primarily on six snippets of videotape, totalling 4 minutes and 20 seconds, which have been posted on Schiavo's parents' website and broadcast repeatedly on the news. Because she asked him to not let her exist in that state. He tried rehabilitation for 8 years. Here is the time line Living hell? She is not there to feel anything. Why place pictures in front of a plant? And even more Dr's that state she is gone beyond a shadow of a doubt. Not to mention the DR's that were appointed by the state. You believe, or you know? How do you know she has not had them already? Maybe she wanted to be creamated? Why should the parents over rule a husband or her choices? Maybe because there is no need? She feels nothing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is no proof otherwise. 90% of the people polled if in the same situation would not want to exist. A wife tells a husband much more than a wife tells her parents. Do you have any proof that she would have wanted to "live" like she is? Her parents are just emotional about it. Doctors have said that her ceribral cortex has turned to spinal fluid. There is nothing left of this woman. Let her body die so if she has a soul it can rest. List his choices that show this. See I LIVE in Tampa. This has been news for 15 YEARS here. I know plenty about the story since it all started. It is the reason I had a living will drawn up when I was 18. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

His wife asked that she not be kept alive like a plant. He is trying to follow the wishes of the woman he loved. The easy road would have been to run away. The hard road is to show his love by following her wishes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Waiting and thinking that a CYPRES will save you IS new. Its the thinking you will be fine and giving up since you had a cool toy that is new. You could not wait for a CYPRES before they existed. Yes, people burned in for a number of reasons... But today we have people who instead of trying to save themselves wait for a back up device to save them. Also we have people doing more dangerous things just because they have them. I don't see how you fail to grasp that simple concept. Thats like me saying I think you wish people would stop pulling reserve ahndles since a CYPRES is so good. I wish people would wear a CYPRES, but act in a manner that they don't allow themseves to do stupid things since they have one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't tend to lump everyone in the same class... However, to be honest none of these people before the jump would most likely say they would have not pulled the reserve. I don't know any active jumper that does not think that they will react correctly. I doubt any jumper that ever bounced thought they would. What I *HAVE* seen is that due to AAD's being so good and reliable that many people are doing things that they would not have done without an AAD (Or RSL, or Audible Alti). The fact that these people will do things with these devices and not without them is a clear indication that people are relying on these devices. While I am glad that people are not bouncing, I am unhappy that people are doing things that they would consider unsafe if they did not have an AAD. If you would not do the jump without an AAD, you should not do the jump at all. And my BIGGEST problem is how some people think the dependance is OK. Some even here are trying to say that the ADD failed, or was confusing. The AAD had nothing to do with this accident. It did not cause a fatality. And I am just amazed that some people think the AAD failed. She failed to stop the jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Uh, you see I wrote it that way since I am very clearly stupid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Waiting for the Cypres is new and there are cases of it. A quick check found three that admitted to waiting on a CYPRES. And one who had TWO fires for the SAME problem in less than a year. This shows a clear dependance on the toys. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He expected the RSL to pull it...When he realized it did not he went for the Reserve...The CYPRES had fired. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I was never your student. But you are one of the best Organizers I know, and I learned alot about that from you....But that was not the question "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think either method has risks. I would not dare a guess at which method is safer when done with modern methods and equipment. I like the SL method because I think it makes a better student in the end. I don't think any one method is safer than another. But by the same token I don't think any method is more dangerous either. OK, the last two I listed were student fatalities. I looked for both Student and JM fatalities and listed two of each. These are just fatalities not injuries and I removed any accident that could have happend with either method (Canopy flight, improper response to a mal...ect). This was also a quick check as I am sure I missed some. But my point was your info was over a small group (Sweden only 37 fatalities) over a long period of time (50 years). AFF was not around Officially till the early 80's. You can't compare 50 years worth of SL to 25 years of AFF. The equipment is much better today that the first AFF rigs and the methods are better today for BOTH programs. To compare the two you would need injury/fatality results from the same time period with comperable gear using the two methods. I personally don't see one being safer than the other. In fact my dream school would have 1-2 Tandems, 10-15 min. Tunnel, SL to the clear and pull and then Cat "D" AFF. Tandems to teach the canopy control part and the first two pulls plus into to turns and tracking. Ltes face it most will never go past this part of the program and it allows the DZ to not spend 5-6 hours teaching a FJC that will be used once. Tunnel to get the student stable, teach turns, practice pulls, and build confidence...SkyVenture Orlando has 10 min for 145.00 dollars..About the cost of an AFF level . Perris has it for 165.00 dollars, again about the cost an an AFF jump. AFF to teach the student to skydive and add it all together. The thing is I don't see a problem with either method as it comes to saftey IN the program. I do see some real benefits to SL AFTER the person is off student status. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes it has happened several times. I know of a tandem master that didn't pull his reserve cause he thought his RSL would do it....And he ended up with a CYPRES fire. The offical CYPRES saves page has quite a few people who just waited... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

These are just some of the accidents. Having an AFF JM or even two is not a proof that you will be stable at pull time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or age. A SL student 20 years ago without an RSL or AAD vs an AFF student with a CYPRES and a skyhook is a big difference....But it is based on the equipment. I don't see the method that different. I could be wrong, but one thing I know is we cant compare SL students from 20 years ago to a modern student on a modern rig. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK thanks for the info. Makes me wonder what went on then. You did great, and I had a blast.... BTW did my Cat D this morning. Also, didn't know your flew Helos....Im just learning...wanna see me look really stupid? Watch me fly the robbie. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow, thanks for the fast answer. How hard is it to change a Vigils mode? Can it be done on accident? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have a report from DeLand that another Vigil fired this past weekend (3/19) while the main was being deployed. It was reported that it fired at 2500 feet. Any info? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That quite frankly is crap. They have said that you should not DEPEND on them. That is a big difference. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sure. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Answer: Bram Clement I had the opportunity to do my AFF eval course with Bram and Elly. I say opportunity since I was quite frankly amazed by them. They were a first class team and I can honestly say that every single time I jumped with Bram I learned something new. Every-Single-Time. Not only was he a fantastic jumper, but he also was able to remember *every thing* that happened on the dive. With two Canidates giving him signals at the same time he was able to remember both canidates signals and give a great debrief to both canidates. The debriefs were good, honest and I learned a ton from them. I really can't say enough great things about them. I would recomend Bram and Elly to ANYONE with out a seconds hesitation. http://www.skydiveratings.com/ Funny story from the course. My last jump I had to get out low. Bram gave me an OK exit but without an arch. The second I shook him to arch he not only arched great, but *keyed* the break....I was so stunned...Here was a Student keying on the hill. I wish I had more time to work and learn from them. If I can become 1/8th the instructor that they are...I will be a happy man. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you have any proof of which is safer? I have never seen a student have a horse shoe mal. And either program it could happen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This woman is brain dead....And has been for years. Her Husband waited and waited for years. He know that she did not want to be kept alive on life support...He knows because he claims she told him. Her parents are clinging on to a hope that she will recover....The experts say she will not recover. This legal battle is BS. Her husband has the right to exicute her wishes. Her parents are trying to keep her alive since they are desperate to hold on to her. She is gone....Has been for years. Mike won a littl over a million dollars....Her care has eaten that and more up...so its not about money. If he wanted he could divorce her and the corts have said they would. But he is trying to do what his wife told him she wanted done. If he just wanted out of the problem he could have left long ago. Her parents were willing to accept resposability for her. He is only trying to do what she asked him to do. I really wish people would just let her body die. It is only a shell. In this case I wish Gov Bush would STFU. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think most of us know the story. Does anyone know how he is doing? In a PM he told me he was gonna start jumping again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't get this... I miss PK he was worth arguing with. Smart, and informed. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well at least you have tried to show some proof... Ill give you credit for that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=1527209#1527209 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334