Ron

So your saying there is a chance! OK, what movie did I badly quote from? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I hook my reserve all the time....In fact one of my rigs even has dive loops on the reserve. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Rickster. I was talking to some of the very best canopy folks...And I asked them who they thought was the best. They all said Rickster. He was swooping everthing PD came out with. I remember reading an old Parachutist from the 80's. It had a paragraph on some guy with a tiny ass 150! ripping through the landing area.....That guy was Rickster. I think the canopy was pink and one of the first Sabres. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

shhhhh don't tell them. I can only assume that a pea pit is not that big a deal....A big ditch filled with water is. I mean its really just a bunch of small rocks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

looks like both had an 18, but AS had a bust on the first 17. A grip was dropped on the left side two way compressed on the buzzard. France wins. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

70, but thanks. Sure there is...Our "property line" ends right on the other side of the pond. We were not allowed to go any farther out into our landing area. After much discussion they wanted a pond and the only place that it could go was right there. Yes, it is a stupid location. But there is not only one compelling reason, it is THE reason it is there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is no problem if done right. However I have seen people out in the second group sit around in brakes till the second group is landing and then try to hook...The problem is they are now smack dab in the middle of the 3rd group. Thats not good. Also you get into the "I can stay up longer than you game". Then you have people in the first, second and third group landing with the fourth. That again makes little sense. With very little exceptions the safest stack has each group landing with seperation and then having seperation between groups. You can't compare a PD test jumper with Joe Weekender...Although Joe Weekender might think he is as skilled and capable...He is not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good questions. I have flown with a rig in the tunnel (Although not 30 pounds of rig). The only difference I noticed was more pressure on my arms and chest and more of a head down attitude with less flexability. Weight on his upper body should not make him backslide, and I have never had a student go from tunnel to freefall with any problems. When you gave him a legs out, did he respond? How did his tunnel session go, did he have a good body position in the tunnel? It might just be a case of sensory overload making it so that he freaks out a bit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ian this is not directed at you. Please don't take it personally. You and I BOTH know that there are people who think they have the right to do as they please. I have seen arguments where a swooper yelled at a STUDENT for "ruining his skydive" since he didn't get to swoop. People don't have the right to swoop when it is a danger to someone else, but you would be hard pressed to tell some that. I had a swooper tell me that if I wanted *To land INTO the wind* on the pond then I needed a seperate pass from them since they wanted to go down wind. They had 3 people who wanted to exit with everyone at 13.5 then land downwind....And I had to get a lower pass? I was landing INTO the wind. There are several things that need to be done. 1. Seperate landing areas for ponds and such....Places like Zhills do not have that option. 2. Seperate passes for those wishing to swoop. As you said, some DZ's don't offer that option, plus what if I want to swoop and you don't and we are on the same jump? 3. A stack. Like it or not this is VERY easy to have a plane load do if people know how to do it. This prevents the low pullers from humming it down, it prevents the guys with high WL's from pulling high and ridding breaks, It fixes everything...And it can be done at any DZ. Go to Raeford...Very few landing problems there due to the fact most see stacks all day long and know how to work into a stack. You will still have students screwing thinsg up....But they don't know better. We had a guy that used to leave after us and pull low and try to beat us down by spirialing....He has a 135, and I have the biggest canopy on my team with a 107. He was getting in the patteren with 200 pound guys on Velo 79's.....I asked him what sense does that make. And told him about a stack. Now he lands right after us, not with us....Simple. All you need is to bother to teach it to people. People need to learn to stack. Talking about it and DOING it is a key. This problem is not going to go away, it is going to get worse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Go Bill...Lets nuke a comet! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I nominate this for best post of all time. Subtle, but still very funny....The scary thing is I bet someone will sue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Legstrap "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, and they bounce back and forth from 4 to 8 way. Fire is up by 8 with two rounds to go. I thought they would win, and barring anything really bad....It looks good for them. Fastrax...Well I'll admit I underestimated them. They look GOOD. The two Airspeed teams look good...I can't help but think that the 4 and 8 way at the same time is such a drain. 12 hours a day at the DZ...Can't be fun, or easy to keep a high level of energy. Still the top 4 seem to be the US. Of course the Frogs are not there. With 8 teams doing a 19 or better I think this may be the biggest, baddest comp I have ever seen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then know when to hook and when not to hook. If the swoop is the focus, then get your own pass. Zhills is pretty good about giving a seperate pass at 12000 if you ask. My 4way team gets out at 10.5 for several reasons..One of them is we don't like the gaggle on landing. My issue was him saying it was "bad luck"....It was not. It was two people target fixated flying perfectly good canopies into each other. When you say something was "bad luck" you are putting the reason on some force that can't be measured. If I get a speeding ticket, it is not bad luck...It was because I was speeding. I know that they were loved...And I know how people always try to defend the actions of the people they care about. But this was not just "bad luck". And accidents like this are becoming more and more common. With wingloads from .8 to 2.8 on the same plane they will become even MORE common in the future. Diligence is the key. So, lets not loose the lesson. What can we do to prevent this from happening THIS weekend? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't know. Check the website http://www.argus-aad.com/homepage.asp Found it: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nonsense There were two people at fault. Know who is swooping and where they are swooping. There is a process I WISH swoopers would use....Its from a Demo playbook and its called a STACK. Before bording each swooper decides WHO will land WHEN and in WHAT direction. IDENTIFY where the others are in the stack before you swoop. This is a clear case of target fixation leading to a collision and two deaths. Also being that swooping is such a large sport in itself, maybe swoopers should get out low when they are swooping. Adding a swoop to a regular skydive is fine, but accidents like this will be the price we pay. I knew Ron, I liked him. But to claim that there was no fault is just wrong. It takes TWO people to collide, ONE to avoid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Having flown a flag....I can tell you that if you don't HAVE to fly a flag...DON'T. Everytime we add something to the skydive...we add problems. You have to be really on your game to handle some of these problems. Leave it to the PRO's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I assume he knows how I feel about anything new. If you remember, I had some issues with the CYPRES2 also.....And they had some issues I was quick to jump on. The CYPRES2 had an edge that VIGIL didn't have in the fact that it had almost 12 years of a really good AAD behind it....And they STILL had issues (Screen problems...And honestly the "solution" was not very good). VIGIL seems to have most of the problems fixed. My biggest problem with VIGIL was they didn't admit they had a problem for a really long time. Trust me...You know me, and I am not about to keep quite just because he gave me a t-shirt and a presentation. But I like how he seems to be really open....And if he follows through with the testing he claims they are gonna do....Well I'll be impressed with the company. BTW I wanted another AAD for my second rig....I thought about buying a VIGIL, then decided that I didn't really need an AAD for a rig that will sit 90% of the time in my closet. I am waiting to see if Argus has any issues....And waiting to see how the company handles them if they have any. Again, I didn't get anything out of Karel but a tshirt (Thats too big for me). I am not recomending this product yet.....Just wanted to give some folks my first impression with it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Probley not. Im not a fan of "new" things that can kill you. However, I like how the company is being really open and honest. If the test units have no problems....Or even better, if they HAVE a problem and the company is open, honest, and quick to handle it....Who knows, I need another AAD. But I think its pretty safe to say that I am not going to be a tester. The first round of testing will be with the loop around the cutter. (I'd have no problem jumping it like that) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Very true, and I don't know what they are planning. Like I said I don't have anything to do with them. The next phase will flesh out some of the opportunities. Cheap batteries are good, but not if they only last a mth. But we will have to wait to see how these test. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I used the Bible to show how some claim to be "Christian" just simply can't be. I don't "Hide" behind anything. Also you still forget I even congradulated you when you got married. You called me your enemy. I am done with this. Have fun, but know if you force a vote that many will vote against it. You would be much better served to drop the militant attitude and the victim complex. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oren is a professional teacher....He knows about this. This is one angle I didn't think of....Try an AFF jump with a different "I". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah yes, but you have to repent and really try not to do it again. Not try to make it legal. BIG difference. OK, but I find it funny that after I have said I support some sort of Civil union I still have people think I am "evil" because I ask questions and put out other ways of thinking. Hell I even CONGRADULATED one gay person on here when they were married. Does not sound like a homophobe to me....But I guess its more fun to attack people than have people question your thought process. (not directed at you). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can't provide proof so you start trying to slam? Hows that victim complex working out for you? Edit: I could dig up posts where you claimed you were just gonna ignore me....so much for that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, but what right do you have to tell him what he will do with his company or his money? Have you seen me support ANYTHING for married couples? Can't admit you can't find one? The fact that the 2nd says "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" has not stopped laws from being passed to prevent people from owning a gun. So clearly some think that "rights" in the Constitution only fit when they want it. And still no one has shown me where in the Constitution it says anything about gay marriage. (And I'm still waiting on a Biblical verse from those gay christians) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334