Ron

You went to a gear dealer and asked them to measure you for a competitor? Bad move on your part. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Seems like Skysurf has two more years at the Nationals. However, if less than 4 teams compete in an event 2 years in a row, it will be eliminated. So Skysurf had better get folks to compete, or it is gone. ACMESkydiver "Honestly, my husband is not licensed, but when he DOES finish his licensing (a ways off, but it will come some day) he REALLY wants to find someone to teach him to skysurf" mailin "I've been interested in skysurfing for a long time, and look forward to trying it in a few years" tdog "I want to tell you that I am skydiving today because I saw Troy surf in IMAX. Enouf' said!" Get a board and go. If you don't, then you are the reason it will die. Can't get more fair than that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I can think of several. One almost killed a friend of mine. Here is another that did kill. http://www.skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?MinDate=11%2F1%2F2003&MaxDate=11%2F1%2F2003&Place=Coolidge "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ya know what kills me? We have done this SAME BS before. Reference this post from me when you asked the SAME question in 2001. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=893993#893993 Properly installed and STILL KILLED PEOPLE. Bill Booth says that if they had collins lanyards they might not have killed these folks....Maybe. The Skyhook might have saved them, but we are not talking about skyhooks, we are talking about RSL's in general, and I don't think putting a Skyhook in the same class as a normal RSL is fair. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

KAP-10 to CYPRES is not the same as an RSL. The SKyhook is a modern RSL, like the CYPRES. But you can't compare an old AAD to a modern AAD, nor should you compare an old RSL to a Skyhook.... However most RSL's are NOT skyhooks and should not be considered the same either. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How many rigs that have RSL's have the Collin's Lanyard? And how many don't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Look around on here, I put a post together that listed a few of them. One was a racer RSL system that killed a guy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh, ah....Well so much for my Bball knowledge. I don't even know what kind of bat to use on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just because you don't like him, the country or well, anything don't pretned to know shit about me. Tell ya what, you put forth a better canidate and he would have gotten my vote...Don't like it? MOVE like you keep claiming you will....But don't So that says tons about you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ouch, thats gotta sting. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Gesse you have to slam Bush at every chance don't you.... I am amazed at your hatred for him... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you even read any posts? Man do you even know what you write or does the hate just spew out by itself? That is an attack on my character...God its so sad that you think its not that its funny. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which does more good...The 100 bucks or the 10? Why do you even feel the need to compare? Its like saying, "Yeah, your 100 million is nice, but not really". Its amazing that no matter what the US does....People jump all over it. For one I would rather NOT send aid all over the world and help our citizens....But that makes me a bad man. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Right, just like when you say "The US is a POS" means you really love it? If I say your arguments are like a NAZI...That would be an attack. I would think you would know an attack. OH kinda like you whole last post to me..... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Normal, but you don't see Americans slamming England do you? Or constantly harping on Canada unlike how the two seem to get off slamming the US....Why? The US gives more than many other countries...But then people bring up how its not as much as "X" country per GDP. It is still more...But the bigger question is...Why do others jump all over the US even when it gives so much? And how does that differe from people in other countries thinking they know better than the US how to handle the US's problems? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So you attacked my attitude? For me to be compared to a NAZI I would have to have a problem with someone for a reason that they could not control...Such as skin color, race ect. For me to have a problem with a person who makes attacks on me, or statements against the country (while the whole time milking it) is pretty normal I think. Ever wonder why people in other countries slam the US? I have wondered and don't have a clue. Find a few posts where I openly slam another country that is not in jest. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Him calling the Conutry a POS is a pretty clear idea of what he meant. Nice Personal attack. Comparing me to a NAZI... My issue with him is his saying the country is a POS and that he is gonna leave, but not until he uses it some more. What a load of crap. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I have tons of sources that thought there were WMD's.... So your point that in retrospect we found nothing means nothing. Several people thought they were there from both sides of the isle. OK you blamed Bush for this...Bush did not make the order...So again you are wrong. But that didn't stop you from trying to blame Bush. How do you think I am weak? you are the one talking big but walking small. BTW nice Personal attack And as for you asking for 250k...who is the capitalist pig now? Nice personal attack. But Im not the one claiming that the US is a POS, but too afraid to leave it....Again Big talk, small walk. Your true colors are showing..you are willing to use and abuse the US when it suits you, but talk shit about it the whole time. The US could use a lot less of people like you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My letter to the BOD My thoughts: 1. Make a rule that a competitor must: a. Not have won that class. b. Not have medaled in a higher class. Then we can keep the three classes that are pretty good. We don't need a 4th class. It will also prevent an Advanced team from staying around year after year, AND it will prevent an OPEN class medalist from moving down. PC teams can still exist. They can still do the same draw. The can still have the training benefit. But it will prevent an Open class jumper from competing against weekend warriors. Michael Jordon does not play for Duke anymore, why should an OPEN class skydiver be allowed in Advanced? 2. As for skysurfing If you eliminate it from Nationals...How will you select the team that goes to the World Meet? 3. 8way and 4way new class. If you implement the rule in #1, then this is not an issue. We have enough classes now. Two of them already do the same draw. This is unneeded. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I have said that is the ONLY good reason given so far. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really....The USPA has ignored the competitor for so long, I have almost stopped caring. SECTION 5: FORMATION SKYDIVING I don't think there should be an "X" number of year anything. Either a person can compete in a lower class, or they are above that class and should not be allowed in it. This is a lame fix to a simple problem. No reason for this at all. Open means "anything goes". The best team in the US should go no matter who is on the team as long as it fits the IPC rules. 8 way is fine the way it is....Intermediate teams can compete year after year if they want. Open is just fine. 4way...Another lame fix at a simple problem. Define what a "PRO" is and then don't allow them in anything other than open. If you want to make it so the lower classes have to move up...Fine. But don't allow an OPEN medalist to compete in a lower class if you make a gold winner in Advaced move up. Its a REALLY simple problem, but they want to do anything but fix it. If Advanced did a different draw than open that would make a difference...But they do the smae draw, so it makes no sense. If they make the rule that you can't compete in a class if: a. Having won that class. b. Having medaled in a higher class. It all goes away. Two sentances. PC teams can do what Fire, Fury are doing. And what Fastrax did for the last two years. Its the same draw...They just need to prevent PROS from being in a lower class like the NBA prevents Jordan from playing for Duke again. The USPA wants FOUR classes. 1. PRO...These people go to the World Meet...Anything goes. 2. Open...Anything goes. You can stay forever in this class and most will. 3. Advanced...Kinda like it is now, but with out PC's 4. Int....Just like it is now. Classes 1 and 2 are the SAME. The only difference is one gets to win and go to the World Meet. Just make it so: A person can't compete in a class if: a. Having won that class. b. Having medaled in a higher class. OR Make it so anything goes in Advanced and you have the SAME thing. My whole issue has been why make a Gold medalist in Advanced move up if you will let a Silver medalist in open move down? What sense does that make? The whole thing is just nuts...And the fix is NOT to add ANOTHER class. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes. Yes. Jumping off a wall or a diving board is not even close to skydiving. If people can't relate, they will not watch, they will not become interested, and it will never be popular. THAT is the problem with skydiving....We care since we do it, but most people don't care. And they don't want to care no matter how much we want them to care. No, most Olympic events can be done WITHOUT a motorized vehicle. Not negative...realistic. Can you explain why you want it in there so badly? You think you are the FIRST person to try? Skydiving opened the 88 games in Korea....Even before then people were trying, and the IOC does not want it... Why do you think that we can force them to accept us? What happens when you pester the shit out of your whuffo buddies to make a jump? If you look you will see that people who are new to the sport are all about it, but those who have been doing it awhile know the answer already....Just like the stage where new jumpers have to tell everyone they are a skydiver. In time you just accept that its not a popular sport and stop trying to make it popular. Edit to include some quotes: Good luck skydiving without a plane. The rule allows motorized assists such as chair lifts. You can climb a mountain, you can't get to 10.5 without a motorized plane. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its the nature of anything to change....Get used to it. Also, it seems a good number of people do agree with me since it is on the chopping block. It does not do anything if we keep it either. We don't jump rounds for accuracy, and the rules for RW have changed, 20 way was gotten rid of...Things change. So you would encoourage an organization to throw away money...? Money you gave it? The waste of money is not my issue...My issue is no one really cares about it. Since 1998 (7 Years) people could not be bothered to go compete so much that medals were thrown away every year. Last year only FOUR people bothered to show up...The number of skysurfers had DECREASED almost every year since 2000. The event is not attracting people...It has become an event where all you have to do is not die and you will be given a medal. That is no reason to continue to hold the event. The ONLY good argument this far came from Steve...The one about the IPC. This is a good argument to keep it. The rest have been crap. A good number of people knew it was on the way out. Why don't you ask some of the people who used to be the best why they don't compete or even jump a board anymore? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ray, you know I count the vidiot....But in this case I only counted 4 people willing to strap boards on, so I only counted them...It would not be fair to count the 4way vidiot, and not the skysurf, and to be honest counting the skysurf vidiot would be the wrong number. So I discounted both. Anyway it just made the skysurf look better...I had 284 4way people to 4 skysurf. So thats 280 more 4 way people. Using your numbers we have 355 4 way to 8 skysurf. So we would have 347 more 4way folks. I didn't count the video in either class. Not that I don't love the vidiots.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Peep Nationals 2003. There were only THREE Open teams (One guest)...So all you had to do to medal was not die. In Int. there were TWO teams...(One Guest) and only ONE person medaled since one team that was eligable WITHDREW. So TWO medals were thrown away in 2003. Look at 2002...Three teams in Open and ONE in int. So TWO medals thrown away there. All you had to do in 2003, 2002 was show up and you got a medal. Real exciting competition there....In Open everyone that showed up went home with a medal, and in Int. the one team that did all 10 jumps won. Real white knuckle action. Why don't you ask some of your "Worlds Best" why they don't compete? Seems to me that if you still had these folks this would not even be an issue. But if people can't be bothered to show up, why hold a meet? You never answered any of my prior questions... Why hold a meet when the only thing you are doing is giving away medals to those who bothered to show up? Last year there were FOUR teams....The SAME as 2003, the same as 2002. So for the last three years all you had to do was show up to get a medal. In 2001 you had only three mens open teams, two Womens and in int. ONE team...So that year the USPA threw out one womans medal and two Int medals. So for 2001-2004 all you had to do was show up and do the 10 rounds and you got a medal. I could go on, but from 2000-2004 all you had to do was show up and you got a medal....And Medals STILL went unclaimed. In fact since 1997 Medals have gone unclaimed till last year when the only had ONE class....and they only had 4 theams bother to show. You can't even claim that the segment of the sport is growing since it is clear it is not. Why bother holding a meet when people don't care? You can have skysurfing all day long...But you don't need to hold a competition for 4 teams. It makes no sense. Explain to me why we should bother to have a competition class when only 4 teams are gonna show up? Cause I don't get it. You claim that skysurfing is good for the USPA? Well if it was, then you would think more than 4 people in the US would be willing to bother to show up at the Nationals. And anyway all the good that you claim Skysurfing does can be done without it being in the Nationals....So please explain to me how keeping skysurfing at the Nationals will do more than allow you to try and earn a medal? Its not viable, get rid of it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334