Ron

Are you SURE it was routed correctly? It is possible if you have a chest strap that does not have the double back. But not really likely. The metal buckle requires friction to hold it. so if it were loose, it *could* work itself undone in theory. However the most common reason is that it was not done correctly in the first place. That being said, it is a good reason to make darn sure that your chest strap is tight, also to make sure that the keeper is in good shape. Also, I have seen some jumpers double back the strap before they stow it. And have the strap against their chest. Interesting situation...glad you didn't die. Seems like you did the best thing you could. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

True. I have seen some "otter babies" that have 1000 jumps in two years and have no clue. However, they have 1,000 jumps and are normally more skilled than someone with 100,200,300,400...ect. Not to mention that a skydiver that is current will identify, process, react and implement things much faster than the same jumper that is uncurrent. At what level would you consider yourself knowlegde wise? 200 jumps? 500 jumps? 1,000 jumps? And how does that relate to saftey? I know that there are folks that have 2,000-3,000 jumps and have no clue, but lets talk about the "average" jumpers knowledge. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most people think they are within their experience or currency level and are not. Since they don't have the experience, they don't know. Thats pretty much the definition of skygod. So the question ends up being...How does a person realize that they need more training, or to lower the risk on a jump due to not being current? And since Ego is such a big thing in this sport, how do the others tell the uncurrent one this without that jumper insulting them? A little admittance that currency plays a pretty big roll in safety would go a longer way. Since the goal of the sport is living, not number of points in time, biggest formation...ect...Well all else is just BS. Funny story, some 100 jump kid asked me why I don't jump a Velocity anymore. I told him that a Velocity is for people who are ubber current. Thats not me. I told him that I make ~300 or so jumps a year and while I *could* jump a Velo, I choose to jump a canopy that is less performance since I feel a premium wing needs a competant and current pilot, and that 300 year is not really that current for such a wing IMO. He looked at me like I was stupid. Why did a kid with less jumps than I make in a year think I was uncool since I admitted I was not perfect/current enough for something? Then you have the ones that ego will not let them admit that they are not as safe as they would like others to think. So how do you reach those jumpers without being attacked? Yes, I could make one jump a year and be "safe". That jump would be an AFF jump. If I waited a year to make a jump, I would go back to AFF. Being an AFF "I" and having seen the dramatic decrease of skills that go along with being uncurrent, I know how currency plays a factor in safety. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And do you feel the same way if people use a CYPRES to do things they would not without? The simple fact is that people who are current are normally more capable. So a guy that is experienced and current is in a much better place to handle a zoo load than someone who is not current. OK, but since you can only control YOU and your actions it makes sense to either: 1. Stay current. 2. Limit your risk to yourself and others. To claim you are safe when you are not current is foolish. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

More pics "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really. Consider per occurance. A person who does 1,000 jumps in a year is doing more than a good chunk of the USPA average. If the "Average" is 100 a year then a guy that does 1,000 in a year has 10 times the exposure chance and still has a lower accident rate. And if you want to take USPA stats, then you have to remove all the people who are members and that don't jump anymore, including lifetime members who may be dead. And include all the people that joined and never finished to become licensed because they had to join. A good number of DZ's require AFF level 4 and SL hop n popers to join. One DZ I know of requires every student to join (Except Tandems) before the FJC. So you can debate till the cows come home how much of the USPA does 500-1000 jumps a year. But those numbers are going to be wrong. Consider the per occurance numbers and add in that the ubber current jumpers are also the same ones who are most time jumping small canopies and doing bigger/more advanced stuff that should increase their risk level. I'd put my money on the 200 a year person. They have more experience and are much more current. The size of the dive can play into the picture....But it can also hurt. Say both people in the two way are 40 a year jumpers. Is it still safer than a zoo load full of current jumpers? I would grant you that a two way with an Instructor would be safer, but the *same* person will do better if he is current in all situations. Currency does matter. I just had my 6th or 7th cutaway. Its no longer a big deal for me. One major reason was I have done 70+ jumps so far this year already. I am comfertable in freefall (something that really just came back after my layoff after Nationals). I can tell a big difference between 5 jumps a mth and 30. That is a good question. The answer depends on a lot of things. In no particular order: 1. Number of Cutaways 2. Number of jumps 3. Currency 4. Last hanging harness ride 5. The individual I would guess that there comes a point where number of hanging harness rides becomes more important than everything but number of real cutaways. I would think that a guy that rode a hanging harness everyday would be much better prepared than a guy that did 500 jumps with no thought about emergency procedures. But lets be honest, how many folks do you know that ride a hanging harness everyday? And how many folks do you know that make 500 a year that don't think about their emergency procedures at all? I practice my procedures on every jump. "Look grab, look grab, pull, pull" while walking to the plane. Not as good as a real cutaway, and not as good as a hanging harness, but I bet there are not too many people who rode a harness 300 times last year. And I don't care what people say, watching videos and reading magazines and websites without *physical* drills will not help much. Knowing what to do, and doing it, are seperate things. I don't think there are many people who are reading this that can't tell me exactly how to deal with a spinning Stiletto. But people still die dealing wiht one in real life. There is a big difference between knowing and doing. I think that if you drill once per jump on the way to the plane, and once every pack cycle in a hanging harness pulling both of your real handles....you will be about as ready to handle a mal as you can get without intentional cutaways. Assuming that you jump enough to stay "current" which is really a matter of personal comfort level. I wish I could make everyone do an intentional once a year, or at least once at say 100 jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is in the exacution, not in the planning. You will have people rely on it and slack off of altitude awareness. We see it with EXPERIENCED jumpers, so why start them off down that path? They are also have two instructors...why not add a third? Thats got to be safer right? Its not needed and does not add any real value. It also detracts from the main lesson. Anyway its just my opinion. You are free to disagree. I think its bad, you like the idea. We are both AFF I's and we can run our programs the way we think is best. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

More than you would think, less than there could be. But how many is not the point. The more you do an event the safer you are (unless you cut corners). Yes clearly. Yes, but safety is performance. It may not be points in time or how good you swoop. But what about performance in dealing with an Emergency? Or making sure not to over swoop and hit someone, or as you said canopy control? Its not just about burning up the sky, its about not burning in. And I very much doubt that anyone can prove that you are going to perform safer being uncurrent than current. The best way to stay fit for diving is to dive regularly-Adventures in SCUBA Diving. I think that fits in everything. Being current allows you to be comfortable. That allows you to make faster choices, and execute those choices faster and with more precision. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just like we both know people who have an AAD as a "Backup", but will not jump without one? So, was he correct to use his CYPRES as an Altimeter? You want to place an important thing such as altitude awareness on yet ANOTHER device? I would rather train the student, not just hand them another device. Thats like not bothering to teach them EP's since they have a CYPRES. Very valid concern, however we work to prevent that. And as Bill said, "What is the sound of a broken Dyter?" Its pretty easy to see an Instructor not being around. OK quick show of hands...How many skydivers don't know that they should not go low......? These people screwed up, but becoming dependant on a device, you want to TRAIN that dependancy from the start. I'd rather fight against it. Nope, I don't wnat them to develop bad habits. do you SCUBA dive? My Instrcutor would not let me dive a computer and made me learn the dive tables. I know others who were allowed to dive a computer and never learned the dive tables since they had one. Who is safer? A Guy that can do without, but uses one, or one that must have the computer? Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A pic of my smoked in Venture. A big ass scratch built Cub. A buddies Trex, at night, inverted, low. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wrong. It depends ont he person. Some lose everything in a few mths. But a degradation in skill does happen, you just may not notice it. I just started my team this year. It took me 50ish jumps to feel back in the groove after only recreational jumping since the Nats. The more current you are and the more experienced you are, the easier it is to see the rust. But that is the nature of the sport. Why should everyone else that shows up and works really hard to do good jumps, bring you along when you don't have the same comitment? It would be like the World Team taking a few folks with 100 jumps along just to be nice. It is contrary to the goal, and they might not have gotten the 400 way. If you want to be on the "good loads", then you need to be good enough. It is a hard, cruel lesson, but its the way it is. I don't see Airspeed putting me into slot at the World Meet just to be nice. If you want to do better jumps, work with an organizer to get better. But there *IS* a connection between being current and being safe. How many jumpers that make 500-1000 jumps a year do you see dying? It is hard to admit, but unless you *do* jump a bunch, your skills are not as sharp. Thats not BS, thats fact and currency is very important in gear dependant high risk sports. I used to help people get current SCUBA diving, and there was a LARGE degradation in their skills from one "trip" to the next. As an AFF I I see people who last I saw them were doing very well. Then after a few mths they come back and we have to start back at the basics. Currency is important. "current" depends on the person, but uncurrent equals unsafe. That is not to say that it can't be done, but you are at a higher risk than a current jumper. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why not just teach them without it? Then later you can hand them one and say, "These are pretty cool, you don't need it, but they are nice." Fact is they don't need them, and it can and will distract people from the major lesson of altitude awareness. I have seen students once they know about an AAD/RSL relax about emergency procedures. Once you tell them about these devices it is almost impossible to get them back into thinking THEY must save themselves. Once a student knows thay have an Audible, they will relax about altutde awareness. Since now they know that if they forget a little beep will remind them. Read the above again. None of the above is a life saving skill and the most important skill in a given sport. The entire reason for skydiving is to NOT DIE. The most important lesson to be learned is altitude awareness. Sure it would if you train them to act like Pavlov's dog. Case study time. A four way team had all four CYPRES's fire since their audibles reset at altitude. Tell me that they didn't become dependant on them. Why teach a student to rely on them from the start? Tell me these folks also didn't depend on them? Now, I think they are good devices. But lets use your own example from above about driving to the DZ using the Navigation aids. When you teach a person to drive, that is to move the car, do you teach them how to drive or how to get to a location? Do you try and teach them how to use the Nav aids before they even know what the peddles do? AFF is learning how to move the car and what the peddles do. There is no need to teach them the Nav aids or how to play a CD while they drive. In fact it is a distraction that they do not need. Yes it would. If they trained themselves to deploy as soon as they hear the beep and then it goes off early, and they deploy as soon as it beeps. They they throw a pilot chute in the middle of a jump. And that can and has killed people. Teach them how to use the CD player later, after they already have the basics. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Answer questions on here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So they buy one and depend on it. The #1 thing students must learn is altitude awareness. EVERYTHING else is second. And lets be honest, its not that hard, we give them an altimeter and on the first jumps an Instructor. Why would they need a dyter? I do that by reminding them to pull then deploying them and then failing them. Its a hard lesson to be learned, but the most important one to be learned. I can't see one benefit to them having an audible. Can you jump without it? These people might not, and ALL devices fail. Yep, but I will not think a second about jumping without one....Will you jump without one? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Blue Skies....Ever find yourself in Dallas, you have a place to stay. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense, but thats *exactly* what it is. You cannot be "current" if you have not jumped in a while. You can be "aware", but not current. While all of that is nice, none of that is skydiving. And the only way to stay current is to jump out of a plane. How current is "current" depends on the person. I have seen people who can go long breaks without a serious degradation in their skills. I have also seen people take a mth off and take a step back. All of the "other" things you do helps, but that will never make you current. Thats like saying a person who has all the magazines, reads all the forums, and knows how to pack already does not need a First Jump Course. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Heres the thing: If you were more current, do you think this would have happened? My opinion: Currency is better than an AAD, RSL or big canopy. Its good you take all the extra precautions, but the only real way to be safe skydiving is to skydive often and not push it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Unless you are doing ACRO, you don't need those blades. In fact unless you are doing acro, you don't need anything other than the flat wood blades. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah, Instead I just bought a new one "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Funny story...I actually used a picture taken by Tony that was on the cover of "Parachutist" to get to jump once. I showed up at a DZ when I was in the military. I didn't have a logbook, USPA card...Nothing. I showed up with a borrowed rig, jumpsuit and a pair of goggles. They were not going to let me jump. The manager said he had no way of knowing that I knew how to jump. I saw a copy of "Parachutist" that Tony took. It had a face shot of me and in the description inside it clearly had my name listed as on the jump.So I picked up the magazine and handed it to him and said, "Thats me on the cover, it lists my name clearly inside". He turned to manifest and told them, "Put him on the next load." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, well some people don't know how to take a joke. You might know more about this guy than anyone else, but most seem to think it was a joke...Maybe a joke in poor taste, but still a joke. His "Interests" section also has a clue to his nature: While I think he might very well consider fornification an interest of his....I also see it as a joke. I also doubt anyone that beats their significant other would be so stupid as to brag about it in an open forum. I also wish that anyone so stupid to beat their significant other DOES brag about it in an open forum so it can be used against them and they can go to jail and be treated just as they treat others. But in this case I think he was just joking. I could be wrong. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can't be in everyones corner.....Unless you have split personalities "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are a man. Do you never joke? I think he was joking. And to answer the question, she most likley feels that you having to "handle yourself" is saying your sex life with her is missing something. Also she might feel that you hiding it from her is bad. People don't like secrets. How old is this woman? Is she "experienced"? I would tell her that its something you have been doing for a long time...Longer than you have been having sex. And that it feels good when she is not around. But if she is around you would rather spend that time with her. Ask her if she ever does the same. I would not consider it a big red flag. Women often look at this as wrong. For a good portion of their lives they are told sex is bad. I mainly blame religion for this view. However, how she handles this could show that you two are not a fit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Pretty cool. Is it lighter? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are also easily twice the heli pilot as me, and I while I could fly the tail, these cheap helis' don't have heading hold like a 401. I found it easier to learn if I had the thing trimmed to start. And then mad eminor trip adjustments as the battery wore down. Now I could fly it just using the tail...But its still easier to use the trim. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334