Ron

FedEx and other Airlines have a much better MX program than any DZ I have ever been at. I can see the issue they raise. The fact the mention skydiving by name bothers me a bit. Still if the MX is done I see no real problem, but MX is something a good number of DZ's lack. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No. In fact I know a few heli guys that will not shut up about the new planes they have. Its about whats new to you. I have had planes for a long time. Helis are like cool new toys and a new challenge. Yes. Never flown off water so I can't say. Let me know how it works out for ya. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe in stuff I own, but not in: 1. Stuff I have owned. 2. Things I have flown. And I'd bet you could fly circles around me with a heli. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have used trees. I'm sure others have as well. While maybe not the smartest move around, its not IMO "dumb". Dumb is playing russian roulette with an automatic. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just bought ANOTHER heli. Bought a Trex last night and stayed up till 3AM putting it together. It was supposed to be my vacation week project...Killed that plan on the first day. I guess its off to the hobby shop to get the gyro, servos...ect and fly!!! So now I have: 10 planes up to 1/3 scale. A Blade (that the cats hate ) A shogun Heli (That I will be selling) A Trex (That built way to fast...now I have to spend more money) A Sceadu .50 Which flies great. I am also looking at a .90 sized heli. Stop the madness. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think you understand where I am coming from now. I would not consider what you did stupid either....It was a mistake based on the outcome, but not stupid. Now if a guy with 100 jumps and a new pocket rocket canopy tried it...well that would be stupid. But a guy with almost 1000 jumps..Not so much. Uh....no. But I'll buy you a beer sometime. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I always say what I think. Its just most times the humor (my 1%) is overlooked since this medium sucks for that. I have a different outcome than you. But then again I don't normally let many people "in", or I see them for what they are early and don't let them "in". I don't tend to hold online BS against people...And most time I have been rewarded and enrichened by great people. In most cases I have disagreements with people and still stay friends. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow even MORE attacks. Its a shame you let other threads make you angry on EVERTHING. Sure you are...Notice I don't attack you for it huh? Its an exageration but an adept one. If we never "Pushed it a little bit", EXACT quote: "BTW I don't think you were stupid. You have enough experience to push things a bit. The problem is sometimes pushing it gets you hurt. " I think he is not a stupid person, and I think we ALL have to push things a bit to move forward. If you don't you don't grow at all. The trick is to not push to hard or too fast. He made a mistake....Big deal, we all make mistakes. He didn't make a gigantic error in making the choice even though the out come was bad. Would you say the same thing to a student that broke their tib on their first jump? They did the SAME thing The pushed themselves a bit and were wrong. They both got hurt. They both will learn from it. Edit: Spelling....Duh! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I disagree. Even you admit that there are cases where popularity wins over anything else. Case in point, when you agreed there was bias in moderation. It is a pretty natural action. People defend their friends. By many different standards. Some are clear. I think you compare this place MUCH to closely with reality. I find that a good number of folks that I do not agree with on here are quite nice in person. I try to meet them without a pre-formed opinion of them....That may be why I have a different outcome than others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nice to see you would rather make personal attacks than be productive. He has enough experience to make some calls. He was wrong on this one. Notice I said "BTW I don't think you were stupid." Or were you just too quick to attack? He made a bad call. And one to be honest didn't seem THAT bad. It just ended badly. People make mistakes. As for pushing things a bit....Well I guess we should all jump Manta's and do stright in approaches? How do you expand YOUR skills if you don't push the edge at some point? The trick is to make small steps...Which I bet he did. And try your best. If no one ever pushed the edge a little...We all would still be sitting on the ground since even making that first jump is "pushing it a bit". Lay off the dude, and lay off the personal attacks. Its a shame you bring your anger from another topic into this one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thanks for the info. BTW I don't think you were stupid. You have enough experience to push things a bit. The problem is sometimes pushing it gets you hurt. Don't beat yourself up over it......Let us Some of ths folks have given you really good advice about crashing. I would like to add: 1. Wings level. 2. Flair as best you can. 3. Roll with it. Don't try to stand if it does not look good, PLF or something that kinda looks like a PLF. Heal fast. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have tried that and it didn't work for me...I guess I just don't have nice tits. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Aw man...you know I used to be 99% serious with about 1% play. Since I fiqured out how logic has very little use here I lightened up. I am now 98% serious, 1% play, and 1% bad speller. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How bad was it? How long are you out? Had you done this before? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One thing you need to know about this place. There are a few people who have been here a long time...and even though they are at times full of it...People will back them. Its about popularity on here, not about right and wrong. I see people who clearly have their head firmly up their ass get support even when they are so wrong it should be painful. Also, you can never win a popularity contest. The drama folks will band together to support each other. Drama will always win against logic here. However, stirring the pot is kinda stupid. I would have no fear about jumping alone. A good number of folks on here know that this in NOT REAL LIFE. Some however think it is...Those people may not play with you...But you really don't need them. Also, most of the people I have met in real life are not like their on line persona's at all. At any rate I try to avoid unneeded drama in my life, so I try to avoid those folks on here that seem to relish in it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see thank you very much. I aways thought she had a PC in tow. Thanks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you don't see this in skydiving? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Draw from the 23.1 Russian meet: (1) 4 11 F (2) J H 20 15 (3) 6 7 2 (4) C O 5 8 (5) 1 12 9 (6) B E 18 10 (7) P D K N 14 (8) M 22 G 3 (9) 13 L 21 (10) Q 19 17 The scores for Majik: 21 25 21 23 20 22 29 21 24 25 As you can see, not one round where anyone scored over a 30, and Airspeed was there as well. At the Shamrock there were two rounds over 30 and six did over 30 in round 4 to include a skydive worthy of a world record. In round 7, three teams did over a 30. Russia had one fast round, and it included a long block (14). The Shamrock had one totaly random jump an one with only block 9. While I agree that a 20 is quite an achievement anytime, the shamrock was a draw that was the fastest I have ever seen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See here is my problem. There is no "Right" order with a PC in tow. Either can save or either can kill you. I honestly think a PC in tow is a crap shoot. (I prefer to dump the reserve, then get ready on the cutaway if I feel the need). But to be honest, the only reason I like this method is: 1. You have to stop falling. You might survive a double out, but you can't survive landing a PC only. 2. If you cutaway first you have only one option left. If you deploy the reserve you can still cutaway later if you feel the need. To be honest thats just *my opinion*. There are people who did exactly what I wrote and died. And there are people who did the opposite and also died. I think with a PC in tow the only real answer is to do something...Fast. So I think she made the right calls...She did pull the reserve. Now the issue with the Catapult....Well that *could* be considered a bad move. I think its normally a bad move to be the first on the block with a new toy. And safety starts with gear selection. But, the gear seemed to be a good idea. To the best of my "Armchair" review she seemed to make the best choices she could have, and maybe the exact same ones I would have made. Given that she made the same choices I would like to think I would have made....I think she did everything to the best she could. And yet, she still died. It is cases like this that make me think you can do everyting "right" and still die. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well everyone did great, but it was also the fastest draw I have ever seen in over 10 years. Majik was the only team to ever break a 23 with a 23.1, and in this meet alone two teams smashed it. Sinapsi has a very good chance. I would not count Fire out yet since they had just started training earlier that week with a complete team. Sinapsi seems to be the team to beat right now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That attitude, or the perception of that attitude is in everything. People are people no matter what hobby they play in. The factors are: 1. The person 2. Another person's perception of the first person. Those same kind of stories told by a skydiver could cause another jumper to call that guy a "skygod". Here are a few types of Skydivers that have equivelant SCUBA folks. 1. The old hand. Not as cutting edge, but has tons of experience. "Been there done that, and lived". 2. The eager learner. Always willing to learn and always open to advice. 3. The self proclaimed expert. Either person has little to no experience, but thinks they know more or enough to not bother listening to anyone they don't want to. In skydiving it could be the guy with 100 jumps pulling low or on a tiny canopy. In SCUBA it might be the guy that takes his brother diving who is not certified. 4. The "God". This is a person either a self proclaimed expert, or an old hand. And for some reason you don't like something about them...Either they don't listen, or say things you don't want to hear. 5. Pros. They make a living from the sport/hobby. 6. Shooting stars. They show up, do it a bunch and leave. There are tons more. The simple fact is that in most activities you will see people who meet all of these names...The activity does not matter that much. Is it possible, that with 60 dives (most likely 30 two tank trips right?) vs 388 jumps, you have spent more time on a DZ around skydivers than SCUBA around divers? And with time you might see the same type of folks in both sports? Also, a good number of SCUBA divers are once a year, or twice a year divers on vacation. You never really get to know them much. Thoughts? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Both. To a guy that competes its a sport. To a guy that jumps a few times a year it is a hobby. To the guy that makes a living from it, it's a job. For me it was a sport, now more a hobby "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'm not sure...Can you tell us more about Denise's situation and why you think her actions were at fault? Most PC in tow situations have two courses of action: 1. Cutaway and pull the reserve. 2. Pull the reserve without cutting away. Both can save you or kill you. To be honest I am not sure which is a "better" course of action. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Tech diving is just advanced diving (Technical). Sometimes it requires advanced gear, or training. Cave diving would be "tech". Looking on the outside of a wreck would be recreational, going into the wreck would be "Technical" Its just advanced diving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Naui: Open Water, Advanced, Master. I have 200+ dives. I almost got killed jumping and started SCUBA diving. I dove almost every day for about 6 mths. Spent some time in some of FL's wonderful caves. Normal diving is boring in the gulf. Tech diving really got my blood pumping. In both, if you screw up you die. And both require training and currency. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334