Ron

Well its not really that long. But it is REALLY wide "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The key words are "from what he said". All I said was that AD was not there and the Instructor was. The student may not know what he is talking about. He is a student, and we should not lynch the Instructor on just that post alone. Again, "from what you have been told". I am not defending the instructor. But I am not willing to call him an idiot either based off of one post from a *student*. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your right to do whatever you want, ends when it can seriously effect innocent people in a negative way. DZ's close over things like that, people have emotional trama from seeing things like that. Maybe you need to wake up and not be selfish? Again you don't know of what you speak. Law makers have nothing better to do that regulate things they don't bother to understand for the public good. I can think of at least one airport where there will never be a DZ after a fatality there. I can think of plenty more that have problems being allowed to jump do to just the *chance* of an accident. You don't seem to know what you are talking about. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Someone said "When I was doing AFF an instructor once told me "don't think about as jumping off the plane, Think about as stepping into the relative wind"" It is good advice. I would say to not worry about it. You are standing on the outside of a plane 10000+ feet above the ground. That is not a normal place for a human to be. So fear is normal. That being said, get over it. Realize that the danger is below 1,000 feet, not on the plane. Just go. I had a student I had to let run out of the plane a few times...Once they realized that it was easy and fun, they had no problems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Before you go off on the Instructor, remember that you were not there and the Instructor was. That being said they should try another instructor, and you idea of breathing exercises is right on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would not go below 150 for a first canopy. Now if you can borrow/rent a 150 for 20 or so jumps you would most likely be fine under 135. I would not recomend anything smaller as canopies and air do not scale. The same WL under different sized canopies do not give the same performance. Drag will be greater under the larger canopy and a smaller canopy will turn faster do to shorter lines. Also you need to take into account the density altitude of where you jump. The higher in elevation you go the thinner the air is and the faster a canopy will be. So a canopy loaded at 1.0 in Zhills, FL. (altitude about 32 feet Above Sea Level) will be easier to fly than the same canopy in Denver, CO (Almost a mile Above Sea level). Temperature also plays a part as does humdity...But lets focus on Altitude since it is the biggest factor and the easiest to know since the others change. Its fine. Safer is always the better choice. If you get a canopy that is a little too big you will actually be much better than getting a canopy a little to small and hoping to grow into it. A broken ankle will really hurt your skydiving career and you are more likely to get hurt under the smaller canopy all other things being the same. "The race is not always to the swift, but the steady" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep. My whole point has been if they are depressed they should have a medical doc clear them. If they are on meds and it is controled I have no problem with them jumping. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Of course not, they were most likely helping you out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No. But I would understand if something was in place. I can't make that call. It would have to be a Dr. Depression I am sure has levels. A mild "blues" would not be a case for grounding, but a harsh case where the person is suicidal sure would be. Again, *I* can't make that call. Would you agree that severely depressed people should not be allowed to jump? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Often people do not know what is good for them. They think they know enough when, in fact, they have no idea. 2. Some conditions frankly present real dangers. A suicidal person should not be allowed on a plane. Now, how do you know a person is suicidal? Answer is you normally don't. But they are depressed. However, some think it is a persons right to do as they please...To a point I agree. I think you are free to do as you please until you impact my life by your choices. Wanna smoke? Go right ahead, but I also have the right to not breathe your second hand smoke. Wanna kill yourself? I think that is your personal choice honestly. However, by doing it skydiving you risk others such as the DZO, the DZ, AND skydiving in general. The FAA does not allow people with some conditions or medications to fly a plane. (I know this first hand). Do I think it is stupid? Kinda. But there are some conditions that people have that I do not think they should be allowed to fly. The problem is, who I am to say which is which? We have Dr's to make those calls. BTW the FAA now allows me to fly again. Depression is a medical condition, that can cause big problems. I don't think it is harsh or cruel to make people with medical conditions prove they can safely participate in an event. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No. Grounding a person due to a heath issue is not against human rights. Is not allowing a blind person to drive a violation of their human rights? It could be, and many on here have posted that skydiving "saved them". However, they could jump if a medical professional said they were not a risk. So they could still jump if they could prove they were not a risk. Look many people say that mental illness is a disease, I agree. They say it can be treated, and to an extent I agree. However, we don't let people with known medical problems that could cause a problem do dangerous stuff. Why would this medical problem be any different than any other medical problem? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but it does not mean you will not either. I think a clinically depressed person should be cleared to skydive by a mental heath professional. Skydiving Instructors, or DZO's that I know are not qualified to make that call. That being said I don't think that anti-depression meds should automaticly ground anyone either. But I think that is a case for a mental heath professional as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

From my personal exp, I found the Perris tunnel to be slower than Orlando. It might be due to elevation, power, or me being crazy. But I did not get the same feeling from both tunnels, and the driver told me he had it cranked up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would rather think it was an accident. However, I think that when most get to that point they are no longer concerned with how others feel. They are hurt and think that death is the only way out. Thanks

Not true. Many think of it as a way to go out in the sport they loved. There are a good number of high experienced jumpers that have killed themselves in the sport. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So not true. At that point they are not thinking about others. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have a few more than that, and I don't know for sure how to save my own life. I only have a really good clue. I only bring this point up since Tonto's post was so well written and I wanted to add to it. I have some jumps, Pro rating, AFF, Tandem, SL "I's"...Blah, blah, blah. I still ask for help when doing things I am not good at. When I was playing around with freefly, I went to a FF coach and asked him to check my equipment, clothes, and plan. I like to think I know enough to avoid doing something stupid...But as I like to say everyone that died thought they knew what they were doing as well. Never be afraid to ask, and never be unwilling to answer. Even if that answer is "I don't know." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A sorry my point was it is hard to run one est of blades without a poblem. I can't imagine having 4-5 trying to all run with each other with a limited intake. It seems to me that one fan might lose air to another. I'll be in CO this weekend. It will be interesting to compare a SV recirc tunnel to an open air tunnel. And see the differences to the Bragg tunnel. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[whisper]Burn it, burn it[/whisper] "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Run Oren, RUN!!!!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

One would think. But many don't see that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I just screwed up the exit. We switched point (old me) with tail (new me) the week before and I just screwed it up. I dropped down and when the key came I was surprized and low on the hill. So I had to fight to get back to the Sidebody on the "O". If I was current as a tail I *might* not have screwed it up. We have not even walked all the exits with the position swap yet. Thats for the next camp. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It seems that they had the right kind of judges. Skyleague said that they are sending it in. In anyway they did a great job! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not true. They respond with, "I read it on DZ.com", or , "I was told that by Clint". Even if they are wrong and have no clue, some will just not admit it. I can only guess it would make them feel weak or stupid. My point is that some will think they "know" something just because they read it, and can recite it. I had a student give me a lecture on the 45 degree rule. But, they could not answer questions on why it does not work. But they still acted like they knew what they were talking about. Another great example is canopies....People all think they are qualified to jump what they are jumping. They can give references to articals and posts that confirm their ideas. But they don't understand aspect ratio, planeform...ect. But they think they "know" since they read something. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What competition? For it to be a "real" record I think there must be (TWO?) judges that are IPC. Fire's was in a competition, but they didn't have the number of judges needed to make it legal. If it did not need to be in a comp...Hell, FX had an omniskore almost 60 pointer at one time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334