Ron

I *think* she does not actually have to do the event. Just present an idea to a class. She is getting graded on the planning and the presentation. No one (I don't think) will ahve to really jump. If what I am thinking is true skydiving is great. It's original and will be remembered. However in the real world you would be 100% correct. It would be a badish idea to try and get most folks to jump as a team building event. Liek you said, Paintball is about as much "adventure" as most could stand. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OVER USE is really bad. My biggest gripe is people who read off the damn slides It can be a very good tool. It makes a bad presentation onto itself and that is the problem. PPT is easy to use, and some people think all they need is a PPT presentation and nothing else. I think it can be very useful if used correctly. You got tired of it, but thats because you saw them over and over and over, and that would get old. They work pretty well in a limited business situation. Those folks broke a major rule of ANY presentation....Practice with the equipment. I would bring a PPT starting with an opening slide with name...ect. The next slide would be a movie clip of a skydive. Something with an artsy side to it....Maybe skysurf since it had the most popularity. Maybe a slide about gear...Just a few bullet points, not a copy of Pointers. I would blackout the PPT and SHOW a rig to the class and and talk about it. The next slide would be about the team building benefits of making a first jump. The last slide would wrap it all up, and then turn off the PPT and ask, "I know you all have questions, so I handle as many as I can in the time allowed." Five total slides: 1. Introduction 2. Move (attention getter) 3. Gear (w/ physical prop) 4. Meat (reason for the whole presentation) 5. Conculsion. People who type a presentation and copy/paste it into a PPT have no clue about presentations. But you bring up a great point...The number one thing in ANY presentation is to play to the audience....In this case if the Professor hates PPT, I would not use it. In that case I would have pre-made flip charts with the same info, and a VCR set to play the clip. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Put a movie INTO your power point. If you need help with that, PM me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Need a little help here. OK I was flying my Sceadu around and suddenly my heli started rotating like crazy. The tail just stopped working. So I hit, throttle hold and auto'ed her down. Walked over to it and the tail seemed fine. Me being stupid, I put it back into the air. The tail seemed to wobble a bit, kinda like the gain was too high. Then it happened again, it just started spinning. So I auto'ed her back down again. This time the tail servo (a Futaba 9254 with a 401Gyro) would not move. It was just stuck there. After a second it started to work again. OK so either my Servo is bad (110.00). Or my Gyro is bad (135.00). Which is it? I already bought the servo, but if the Gyro is the bad thing I would hate to risk the heli again just to find out it was the Gyro. So what could it be? I'm flying tomorrow, so any help would be great. Also, Got a Trex....WOW. That thing is fun. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I will not be there, but if you ask me before hand I have no problem with a buzz job. As long as: 1. We have agreed to the "nojoy" altitude. 2. We agree on the distance. 3. Its not a tandem. 4. We both agree which jump it is. I think that it can be quite fun as long as those 4 things are met. Ray Dutch has buzzed me a few times, a few others have as well. As long as I am asked, I normally agree. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

*Could be*, But not always the case. The simple fact is that most students are going to focus on the falling towards the planet at 120 MPH part, and preventing becoming a crater, and not the canopy control part. People have a limited amount of ability to handle new information. You can overload a person with new stuff and they will decide to focus on what THEY think is important. My day to day job is as a Training Instructor for a Major Airline. It is a something I see in application every day. Students focus on what they think is cool or important, and in skydiving that is not normally the canopy control. And since almost EVERYTHING is important. They pick what they want to remember or focus on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have made I think 21 jumps in a weekend out of Mikes Plane. I would LOVE to see these a bit more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Really good question. No really good answer. I have seen people run the gambit from never flinching, to quiting the sport. I have had friends seek professional help, some had to take meds. One of my friends quit and tried to get me to quit also. He told me that he was not sure he could lose me as well. Some people quit and cut all ties to the sport. They try to put distance between themselves and the pain. In truth, it changed the sport for me. I always claimed I knew the sport was dangerous...But in truth I was an idiot. And I found that out the first time I got "The Call". My friend told me to sit down he had some news. I told him I was sitting, but I was lying, I was standing in my bedroom. When he told me it was like a ton of bricks hit my shoulders and someone took out my legs at the same time. I fell. My entire soul was sucked out, my heart imploded. The sport changed for me that day. I used to be a young immature idiot. I liked to say, "I would quit skydiving right after a wet thud". I was an idiot. I would love to say that after the first one it gets easier.....Nope. When my teammate died I thought I had it all together, I remained stoic until I got to the funeral. Then I lost it, and the world spun. I had just delayed it, not avoided it. I would say that the major change that I went through is I am now a "saftey NAZI". Having been through it, I would save as many people as possible that pain....And these folks were not even family to me...I can't imagine how hard it is to lose a family member to a sport. I now really hate to listen to "know it alls" with a few jumps and a "It can't happen to me" complex. It gets me into trouble, but the thing I find is that my inbox is filled with people who once thought I was being a jerk who now understand. Unfortunately it often requires blood on the ground to grow some peoples maturity in this sport....something I have tried to fight as best I can. Its a shitty way to grow up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

*I* would punish the person. However, it is quite possible that several people *Appeared* to be a problem to the DZO. If it was more that one person (And this could be due to people who are freaked out by a WS jumper in the same plane...so they could be over reacting...However, if there is the one or two that are acting like jerks, then it opens up the door for people to over react) All I aksed was was it possible a few were acting like jerks? If so then the others there could become hyper-sensitive to the issue. OK, but thats YOU. Is it possible some others were not so nice? I agree, but as you can see some people don't agree and are militant that they are right and everyone else is wrong. That does not help the issue. All I am saying is that even though YOU have tried very hard to play nice (It seems that way to me). Is it possible someone else is not and being a pain enough that the DZO had few options left? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can you expand on these? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Situations like this were brought up here : http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2028087#2028087 It only takes ONE attitude to ruin it for everyone. Its a shame that the DZ felt the need to take it this far. But I am willing to bet that they had their reasons. A perfect example of what I am talking about: Attitudes like that might be why the DZ made that move. If a guy does something that he does not see as dangerous, but others do. And he will not listen and instead ignores them and calls them stupid.....Well its just an example, but is it possible that something like this happend at your DZ? A quote of mine that seems to be coming true: "When push comes to shove...Do you think the DZ would rather have a few happy WS folks and fly a Cessna, or a bunch of happy other jumpers that fill an Otter?" The DZO might be tired of trying to get a few WS folks to play nice. I can't think of many DZO's that would really try to hamper a specific type of skydive unless they have tried every other option first. Is it possible that one in your group is being a pain without you knowing? Or is it possible that there have been incidents that you were aware of, but didn't seem to be a big deal then to you, but others might have seen an issue? Tandems and students will win ANY argument of who gets on the plane. But there is hope. Maybe you can talk to the DZO with *your* ears open as well. Let them say what they see the problem is, and FIX IT. Not just give lip service to it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You could make it so he did the same thing on all jumps. AFF around here you use throwouts. So on the SL jump you have them grab and throw a PVC handle with paper mache atached stuffed into the same location as the PC. Thats just one way to go. But this idea has some merit in the fact that if the AFF student shows up and you have low clouds...Say 5 grand, they can still jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which method did you learn? Severall others have pointed out how AFF students don't pay as close attention to the canopy portion of the FJC as they do the FF portion. And for a good reason. Most think they can do something as simple as pull toggles with radio comands. But Freefall is alien to them (hence the Tandem jump also). Students learn best in small packets of information. If you dump an entire load of information on them, they will not retain all of it. If you hand them small bite sized bits. They will retain the information better. And success will build success. So once they understand canopy control, then they can focus on Freefall. It is the same concept that makes Tunnel rats so easy to train, they already understand one portion of the skydive. So, a SL jump with a focus on canopy control will make the Freefall easier since they will be able to focus on that and not everything at the same time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Does Mike know about this? I thought it was trade marked? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I can only speak obout one type of AAD (CYPRES). But no, the cutter can be replaced by a rigger. I think it is the same for most other brands of modern AAD's. However the cost of a cutter, is not my major concern. It is the two out I would have to deal with. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not going to refute it. AAD's do save lives. Other reasons that low/no pulls have dropped. 1. Canopies. The popularity of the Stiletto and its really slow openings made it so many people started pulling higher. Todays canopies take longer to open, and malfunction really bad. This can lead to people opening higher. 2. RSL's. They have become more popular. Since a good number of "Nopulls" were from a cutaway the popularity of RSL's could play a part in that reduction. 3. AFF. Someone already pointed out that since AFF trained jumpers pull much higher than the old SL trained jumpers of old...that they have gotten used to pulling high. That gives you more time when it hits the fan. 4. Freefly's higher speeds. FF jumps break off higher than RW. More people FF today and break off higher. This gives people more time. 5. Audibles. They are more popular than ever. 6. Pulling low is not "cool" anymore. 7. AAD's Besides the obvious benefit of them firing...The fact that they can be scared into firing means that people pull higher to avoid a double out. These are just some of the reasons. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A "panic turn" would not be a hook turn...Thanks for making the definition so easy. And since NEITHER AAD fires nor hook turns are reported at all DZ's unless they end in death....Well the available numbers show your stance is not valid either. Your choice to require AAD's is most likely a reaction to the fatlality your DZ had with that girl. But the numbers that include outside your DZ show a totally different picture at what is most dangerous. AND your love of landings might cloud your vision even more. Like I said before...You have a right to require AAD's. Hell, I SUPPORT your right. I just think its not the best way to reduce injuries and fatalities. And that the most immediate need you avoid for wierd reasons. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope. I have always said that you should train like you don't have them. Then you should make a choice if you want one then add it if you like. I have two rigs, one has an AAD the other does not. Given the choice of the two, I grab the one that has an AAD. However, if the rig is not there, I jump the other one. The problem is not when people have an AAD. It is when they allow an AAD to replace training or good judgment. If someone allows themself to do a more dangerous jump *just* because they have an AAD...Then we have a problem. Big difference between an ACTIVE device and a passive device. And a big difference between a device NEEDED to participate and a backup. A parachute is needed (a reserve is needed due to the FAA). An AAD is not needed to skydive. Back to topic...I think the DZO has the right to require AAD's. I also think the jumper has the right to not jump one for whatever reason. If those two can't work together, so be it. The jumper will jump somewhere else and the DZO will not let him jump there. Both win. I don't think that anyone should jump on the DZO's back. He has that right. But a legal question....If a person at a manditory AAD DZ has a problem and dies DUE to the AAD...Is the DZO in a legal sticky place? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

DZ's are not required to report injuries nor AAD fires. FACT. Some DZ's report AAD fires FACT. The simple fact is that since neither are required to be reported you can't claim your side wins that bit. The only thing required to be reported is death. Not AAD fires or ambulance rides. That is BS. A "Hook Turn" is a performance landing. You can try and debate it all ya want but lawyer like definition tricks will not be your saving grace. They CAN both be compared since both kill and injure. And since we are comparing that they can easily be compared. Now you are correct that they are totally different things. One is a passive device that might save you if you screw up and the other will kill you if you screw up. But you can easily compare the two. Have I said ONE word to the contrary? I have said that if you wanted to save lives you would ban Hook Turns. And that is FACT. Notice that landings is the #1 cause of death in this sport? People choose to wear an AAD more often than not. So if you REALLY wanted a "safe" DZ you would ban hook turns since most people wear an AAD anyway. That does not support YOUR side either. And the incident reports of deaths show that for the last 10 or so years the leading cause of death was under a canopy. So the numbers available don't help you at all. Again, I AGREE with your right. It is your right as A DZO. And I have been to your DZ and I liked it. This rule would not keep me from jumping there, it would only keep me from jumping one of my rigs there. However, I don't agree that it is the magical move to save people. And the current numbers available show that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I guess I have lost touch with the sport. I would gladly never have to go to another skydiving funeral. Have you been to one yet? Ever see a guy disapear behind a tree line? Ever tried to save someones life...only to fail and be rewarded with the sight of lifeless eyes in your thoughts when you close your eyes? Ever have to explain to a family how their loved one died? Ever had to do any of this? If not, I suggest you drop the macho BS attitude. I think most serious skydivers would love for the sport to stop killing our friends. All of this I agree with: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That was one of the best written things I have seen in some time....And I agree 100% Technique first, not toys. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK how about from me with 3800 jumps and 15 years in the sport? Like it or not, the fact is that you would save more lives and call the ambulance out to the DZ A LOT less if you banned hook turns instead of making people wear AAD's. And I AGREE that the DZO has that right and that the customer has the right to walk away and jump somewhere else. I ALSO think that device dependancy is bad, and making everyoine have an AAD would do nothing but encourage that. SO, while I agree that DZO's have the right to do as they damn well please....I also think that if they REALLY wanted to keep out of trouble, they would ban Hook turns before they required AAD's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think that is a great idea. I often wish that students got to make all three types of training jumps. Tandem to get an idea. SL to learn canopy control AFF to learn FF. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ask Kallend. He knows about these things. He has what looks like a nice Cub on floats. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree. I don't have a problem with getting rid of bad MX'ed planes. I DO have a problem if it is just a blanket "After this date, these year planes are done". As long as they are taken care of a plane can last a long time. I even agree that older planes need more care. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334