Ron

Private ranges that don't let yahoos shoot there. No. That's what you think you read, not what I wrote. Not at all what I think. Better. Try reading this statement again "So given the choice of being around idiots with a lot of rules....Or heads up people and few rules....Which do you think is safer?" More like smart, well trained, disciplined people don't need a long list of rules. Don't flag a person. Don't point at anything you don't want to destroy. Don't shoot in directions that are not 100% clear. Instead you have ranges that don't let you shoot and move. They don't let you shoot from the prone or on your back. They don't let you do tactical draws. All good training. They don't let these things happen since some number of shooters would shoot themselves or someone else. So they make rules against them...They dumb down the group for the few that are dangerous and maybe should not even be there with a weapon. You think rules make you safe? Idiots forget the rules and do stupid things anyway. Training makes you safe. Staying away from the yahoos makes you safe. A list of written rules does not make you safe. That is my point. I am sorry if you do not get my point. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No I oppose rules that don't work and only serve to make people like you feel better. That is a prime example of you just making up stuff to try and prove a point. I don't mind background checks at all...Find one example of me saying anything like that...Go ahead. I DO mind registration. Since criminals are not going to bother. I DO mind bans since criminals are not going to bother. But please, don't let facts stand in the way of your rant. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Punish criminals for criminal acts. Don't make it harder for law abiding citizens to have a right verified in the Bill of Rights. He says that ALL the time. That is his point, they don't. They only punish law abiding citizens and criminals are not affected. That might be because you have a preconceived notion and are unwilling to listen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I never said that. That is you trying to put words in my mouth that were never uttered. Never said anything against that either. I said that blind rules do not stop stupid people from making mistakes and that it is much safer to be around people you trust. You ignored that and went on some tangent that you could argue. And you STILL think it is just fine for some guy with minimal training to carry a loaded weapon into a Walmart but are afraid of them carrying their weapon from the car to a firing line. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And yet as your example shows, no amount of blind rules will prevent dumb people from doing dumb things. Then don't hang around people you don't trust. You think it is perfectly fine to carry a loaded weapon into a WalMart, but not from your car to a range. That is a clear double standard. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He was better than your favorite choice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually JR has given several suggestions. The crux of which is to support the 2nd amendment. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Biden has not either. So the only person with executive experience is Palin. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Let me get this right you think Lieberman has a case of sour grapes, but Green does not? Lieberman is saying Obama is not ready to lead NOW. And about Green: "Green, who has feuded with Palin repeatedly over the past two years," They don't get along...Of course she is not going to support Palin. Others in AK have said the opposite, "I think it's very easy to underestimate Sarah Palin," said John Binkley, a former state legislator who lost to Palin in the 2006 Republican primary for governor." So we have the former Dem VP choice supporting McCain over Obama. We have the current Dem VP choice just a year ago saying Obama was not ready to lead. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah....To bad Obama's VP candidate does not think Obama is ready to be President. To bad once Dem VP candidate Lieberman thinks Obama is not qualified. So I guess you are right. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I wish either candidate had picked a business person with a good track record. However we all know that if Obama had done that he would have been roasted for not having any experience on the ticket, and McCain would have been roasted for not having enough...Of course some seem to want to bash him for that now...But if he had picked say Carly Fiorina they would have jumped all over him. Still the funny thing is the Cons are going to vote for whoever has the "R", the Libs for whoever has the "D". The undecided are going to vote for whatever they think is important....It may be as stupid as which one is black and which one is the vet. Most will not look behind the speeches to see if the plans can work, or will look at history to see if it has been tried before and how it went. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

At least they have RUN something But you just gloss over: 1. She is running for VP. 2. She ran the State of AK. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, do you consider it wise to lean against a trigger of a weapon you didn't clear and make safe? And I assume there was some rule about clearing a weapon that he just didn't follow? So it just shows that rules are only as good as the people that follow them. So given the choice of being around idiots with a lot of rules....Or heads up people and few rules....Which do you think is safer? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry I meant the people who back Obama...Not you specifically. And you seem to ignore that the President and VP is not the same thing. But you should also be ready to admit that Obama's choice of Biden shows that he thinks experience is important. You seem to keep ignoring Gov of a State as well. We will just have to disagree...I think running a City and a State is more valuable than being in Congress. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Proving yourself safe is not a rule. It is a demonstrated skill. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Several made it 8 years and lived long after they left office. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And my point is there is safe, and then there is your version of safe...Following blanket rules and when those fail make new rules. Johns example of the idiot on the range happened WHILE there were range rules in place. Hell, walk up with the gun off safety...As long as you don't have your finger on the trigger, you don't point it at anything you don't want to kill, and keep your brain on the damn weapon will not fire. I'd rather have smart trained guy with a live weapon on fire than some idiot trying to follow a bunch of abject rules. Yes, you have to play by a bunch of rules that still do not prevent accidents...Much better in my mind to just avoid being around people who are idiots no matter how many rules are in place. Training, not trigger locks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Like I said, I have tried to treat you like an adult...You on the other hand have just admitted to not playing on the same field. Again, care to act like an adult? Or would you rather I just start to ignore you? Your call. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, she is trying to imply that I am in her opinion. You do the same thing all the time. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which is why you are not allowed to shoot at our private ranges till we actually trust you not to act stupid. Me pulling out a weapon to shoot it, or put it on the table is a FAR cry from giving it to you to look at. You should know that those two instances are totally different. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In the fact that the occurrences are statistically insignificant. There clearly are differences. The VP is only given power by the President. Other than right of succession and casting a vote in the event of a tie, the VP has no other listed responsibilities. In that light, a younger less experienced VP candidate can be groomed while in office by the President. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That's not what you have been saying. Based on? What Govt's has he run? I think being a mayor and a gov is MUCH more than just being in Congress. Consider this: Two lawyers, or a mix of experience....Which has more diversity? That is just one part of the job. How about running a govt organization with a budget? How much experience in that field does a law degree give you? It is clear you just like Obama...Nothing wrong with that. But to claim that Obama is more experienced than McCain is silly. To claim that experience does not mater (or that it hurts), but your candidate picked a VP that has been in Washington longer than McCain just shoots that theory down. Again, if it was Biden/Obama your experience arguments (and mine) would be negated. I am not voting for Obama based on his stances...But to hear some slam Palin for lack of experience to be VP while they support Obama for President is just funny. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Really? Show where I have made anything close to a snarky remark aimed at you in the last year? I have tried to treat you like an adult even if I don't agree with you...Can you say the same? Oh, look the best you can do is insults! Mods....why do you let her get away with these things? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really. Either you trust people not to be stupid, or you don't. In the Army we carried weapons locked and loaded all the time and never had an AD. Therefore, if the guy uses his head, there is little chance of a carried weapon firing. This person is an idiot. Even a bigger idiot. And that person would not be shooting with us. Then I suspect you don't trust people to carry a loaded gun either. You have a double standard showing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

McCain has conceded that Palin is experienced enough to be VP. That is different than President. With Obama's pick he has show HE is not experienced enough. You don't get it....Let me explain. On one ticket we have an experienced President and a non experienced VP. On the other we have a non experienced President and an experienced VP. The tickets would only be equal if it was: Obama/Biden vs. Palin/McCain or, McCain/Palin vs. Biden/Obama. As it stands we have one group with the lesser experienced person in the top spot, and the other in the #2 spot. That is not even. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334