Ron

They were not legal weapons. They were illegally converted. You can't even own a removable magazine in CA...So the semi auto versions of those weapons were also illegal. Yet the criminals were still able to get them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well worse... It seems just fine to vote for Obama only because he is black. It seems just fine to only vote for Palin or HRC solely because they are female. It even seems OK to vote for anyone as long as they are not Republican. But, if you vote based on looking at both choices and you happen to NOT pick the black guy...You are called racist. If you don't pick the female...You are called sexist. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry, close. Two. One was the cop you mentioned above. Some claim the cop was dirty and killed the informant in a drug deal gone bad. The other was a Dr by the name of Shou Chao Ho. He killed another Dr. in 1992 in Ohio. Also an M11 in .380. 2 cases in almost 75 years. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Case in point...You can't debate, so you resort to insults. Which one of us here owns a truck and goes hunting? Who's your Bubba now? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"Plenty" if you have 3k to 20k laying around for something that should cost under 1500.00 The same way you ask for control of full auto weapons. Again I'll ask...How many legal MG have been used in a crime since 1934? It is when it creates more restrictions. WRONG...I said it WAS NOT well enforced. Please quote correctly or not at all. I also gave the bill that fixed many of those issues....You seem to ignore that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But there are plenty with explosives. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Seems the best Obama supporters can do is call others names. That speaks volumes about them to me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Got a list of crimes that have used a 50 cal? While I think we ALL agree with that. How much of an intrusion into a person's private life are you willing to permit? I think that is the real question. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually you have said that several times....you used getting a pilots license as an example. Really, your arguments become more an more emotional, and less and less rational every day. You mean the questions I asked that you can't/will not answer? You know like: Are model rockets protected in the BoR's? How many people have been killed by a legal MG since 1934? Really....Your arguments just keep getting worse. I'm done here till you stop the BS and start answering as many questions as you ask. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You can say that all you want....That does not make it true. We have answered your questions...You have avoided answering any with anything more then cryptic responses. We have given you details FOLLOW THE CURRENT LAWS. I don't know how else to explain that to you...And that is DETAILED. FOLLOW THE CURRENT LAWS. And as for Kelp...He asked you a question you REFUSED to answer. I don't see why you should be able to demand an answer from someone when you are unwilling to answer any questions yourself. Here is one of those questions so you can avoid answering it again...I have asked the SAME type of question and you have refused to answer it from me as well..... "Until you can explain why Bush's moves to infringe on our rights to fight terrorism is bad, but sacrificing medical privacy rights in gun control is good, good evening to you." You have avoided answering that time after time. Get off your high horse and either answer that question, or quit bitching that others don't answer yours. You have proposed that a gun owners medical records be open to background checks....You must have forgotten that little bit. Really? Do you even know the process to own a MG? Are model rockets protected in the BoR's? How many people have been killed by a legal MG since 1934? You once again show you have no clue about the process or the rules....Yet you continue to claim they fall short. Really....You need to do better than this to be taken seriously...And I personally like you. I just think your arguments are weak and based on pure emotion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats because I never said "Better" YOU added that. Once again your level of intellectual dishonestly is surprising. You are challenging me to answer for a a position I never took. I think the current laws work well as long as they are followed. YOU have shown time after time that you really have no clue about the current process...Yet that has not stopped you from claiming to know it. He has given that answer...the current rules are fine. YOU just do not like that answer even though it is a legit answer. Really, if this is the best you can do...Avoiding giving any real answers, making assumptions and false accusations. I think I am done with your intellectual dishonestly. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, you never did. Plus you never explained you hypocrisy about model rockets, but your ok with people's private lives on display for firearms. No, we all answered...You didn't like the answer so you make BS claims. Enforce the current rules...Don't make new ones just to feel good about doing something. Your level of intellectual dishonestly is surprising. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if the Military had scrambled and shot down civilian airliners you would be trying to roast them for killing civilians. Simple fact is there was not protocol for having our military shoot down civilian airliners. And no one wanted to make that call. Anyone that did make that call would have been crucified by you for making it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh, maybe follow the rules fixed with HR2640...which I am quite sure you have never read or heard about till I mentioned it. As I said there are plenty of laws already in place. And I have already DL the SC brief....In fact I did that the day it was released. I am not so sure YOU have read it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And they listed some of those restrictions. 1. Can't be a felon. 2. Can't be insane. 3. Can't carry in a court or school. How many others did they list John? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually it is all the info you need. Enforce the current system means to enforce the current system. Pretty simple really. You just don't like it since you don't get to try and force feel good legislation on people. I find it SO funny after you tried to ream me on the WL debate. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No you are not suggesting enforcing the current laws at all. You are suggesting NEW laws that in YOUR opinion are not intrusions into other people's rights. While at the same time bitching up a storm about you losing YOUR rights in other areas. You are hypocritical in the fact you cry about your rights, but are willing to step on others rights. And he listed a few cases such as criminals and the mentally ill. He DID also say nothing reasonable about a BAN.... Only contradiction is from your views...It is OK to step on gun owners rights, but not the rights of guys that have model rockets. Actually enforce the current rules. We have enough gun laws on the books...We just don't follow them and no amount of additional regulations will fix that. The gun control act of 1968 was pretty good except the "sporting clause" part. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your proposal is either: 1. Get a Dr's note. Which you know would never happen. But it is quite funny when you claim the Govt is too involved with our lives already in such things that matter to you like model rockets, but you are more than willing to impose more regulations on OTHERS. Your plan is more intrusive than any Bush plan you have bitched about. Yet you are OK with them since they will not apply to you, only the other guy. 2. Use the process that one State uses for a CHL. You IGNORE that the background checks are the same as the NICS. You then claim that the extra time is a big deal. Again not true at all. You like to take things to extremes and ignore the real data all the time. No one has said felons should be allowed weapons. No one has said the mentally ill should be allowed weapons. We have just not agreed with YOUR ideas of how to prevent that from happening since you are more than willing to give up innocent people's rights as long as you get the rules you want. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Food: Could be better. Had a bunch of MRE's but I have no idea where they went. Survival gear: Pretty good. I need to buy a generator. Ammo: Plenty about 1500 rounds 9mm, 660 rounds 5.56, 250+ rounds .40, 100 rounds .357 and several thousand rounds of 22LR to include subsonic for hunting. But the big plus is I have friends as stocked or better than I am and we have a plan to ban together if needed. I don't consider prepared to equal paranoid. I must admit that I am kinda lazy when it comes to planning however. It would be interesting/cool if the survival professional Amazon gave a list of the basics. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why does the BATF&E take two mths to sign a form? Why when registering to vote does it take 60 days to get the form back? Why does getting a copy of a pilots license take ~60 days??? Yet you have claimed time and time again that you really don't have a clue how they do it in TX...Now you claim to know all about it....Which is it John? And you never answered this question....so I will ask it again: Remember, you complain about the intrusions into people's personal freedoms all the time...So what level of intrusion should be allowed in your mind? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which the current NICS does the SAME thing. Fact is, the background check is the SAME. http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/index.htm You keep trying to claim that the TX CHL program is fine...But the back ground check is the SAME as the NICS. They check the SAME things and have the SAME criteria for elimination. And how would YOU make the current system better? Please notice that the TX bit you seem to approve of is the SAME as the NICS check. Remember, you complain about the intrusions into people's personal freedoms all the time...So what level of intrusion should be allowed in your mind? Yes, and my point is that since you AGREE that CHL holders seem to be less likely to commit a crime, then maybe CHL should be allowed across the US. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Condescending attitude aside, we were talking about OWNERSHIP, not the right to carry. But I assume that your approval of the vetting process to carry in TX means you think that CHL holders in TX are qualified to carry? There is no FEDERAL laws on carry since some states do not allow it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I disagreed with a poster on here just last week and I get a PM saying they look forward to reading about me in the incidents section. Seems when some people run out of intellectual ammo they resort to wishing someone to die. This person then blocked PM's from me. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But, but, but....That's not possible....They are not allowed to have guns? Wait...Are you saying criminals don't obey laws? Finally you understand! To buy a gun it is a NATIONAL program. Carry permits are a different story, but most states that have carry rights have very close to the same qualifications. John, time after time you show you have NO idea about this topic at all. Are you ok with violating citizens rights to get it? None of those are rights in the BoR's....Again are you ok with violating someone's civil rights to implement your plan. That never stops you from ignoring the question. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think we should cut and run from Chicago. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334