Ron

I have more faith in humanity and the Secret Service than you do. I suspect (and hope) that this prediction of yours falls flat like this one has (so far): This one seems to have failed big time: And you made that same claim here: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You mean like all the left wingers that were going to leave? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are free to feel lthat way if you wish. You are free to donate if you wish. But you should at least admit that it is silly for people to have bitched about how much was spent last time, to cheer this time when the amount is much greater. And only time will tell how Obama does. To qoute J. Wayne, "I didn't vote for him, but he is my President and I hope he does a good job." I hope we have no attacks, I hope the economy grows, I hope peace comes to the middle east, I hope the BoR is not thrown away. But honestly Obama's love of FDR and the "New Deal" does not make me feel good about the future. You are of course free to feel otherwise. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is part of the Keynesian spending plan. But, I think most of the money is private, so I don't care. I *DO* remember the left getting all upset about Bush and the total and I find it funny (but not surprising) that they are silent now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have also seen people that no one really liked come out...And after they came out they claimed no one liked them since they were gay. That was just not that case...They didn't like them since they didn't like them. The person being gay had nothing to do with it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Skydivers as a whole are really nothing more than a cross section of society. We have our extremes on either side and a large majority in the middle. That being said, most skydivers are more accepting than you would think. BUT, you need to realize that skydivers as a whole tend to joke more and often AT people. Someone already mentioned this. Don't be a fat guy reaching for a donut on a DZ and not expect to get a fall rate comment. Most of the time it is in fun. Ever laugh at a "black death" joke? What is the difference between a skydiver and a golfer? The golfer goes: Whack! Ah shit! The skydiver goes: Ah Shit!, Whack! Funny, but not if you just lost your wife to skydiving accident. Why don't blind people skydive? It scares the shit out of the dog. When do they know to pull? The leash goes slack. Ever laugh at a lawyer joke? The same reason that fat guys still go to the DZ. To skydive. It could happen...But, I have yet to ever see it happen. There will be some people who will avoid being your friend....But that's true anywhere. Maybe, but not because of your orientation, or how you THINK people will react to it...But because you really do need a thick skin to hang at a DZ. The joking is all in fun. I just think you are internalizing it a bit much. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Totally sorry... The "shoot him in the leg" thing always drive me nuts. I apologize. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And another: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Man_shoots_home_invaders_killing_1.html "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Shoot him in the leg?!?!? You need to quit watching movies. If the situation warrents deadly force... You use deadly force, not some imaginary John Wayne movie move. That kind of comment shows that the speaker has no clue about firearms. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are assuming he did not continue to attack and ended up killing the victim. You are confusing stopping the crime, and trying and punishing the culprit. Should anyone be judge, jury, and executioner? No, of course not. But that is not even close to what happened here. If he had chased the guy down and shot him...Then your argument might have merit. The shooter used violence against an attacker to stop the attacker from continuing to hurt an innocent. BIG difference between revenge/administering punishment...ect and stopping a violent attack. If it was your Mom/GF/Wife/Child that was being beaten...Would you want the shooter to do nothing, or take the shot? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You don't find it funny that when Bush gave "rebates" the dems called it stupid. Yet when Obama suggested "rebates" they thought it was a great idea? An idea is either good or bad on its own merits. When you consider good or bad based only on the source....You have a problem. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually no...Good book? I learned the term in college. I was going to minor in economics, then got lazy and just finished up with a degree in Marketing. I have been toying with the idea of going back to get an MBA, or Master in Economics, or well a couple of other ideas. Seems like MBA's are a dime a dozen. That is one other thing that happens in a recession...People tend to go back to get more education. MBA applications are WAY up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Creative Destruction. The organizations that are really needed will survive and the ones that are run poorly, or are outdated will die. This is not a bad thing, IMO. In fact, a real free market needs it. The only real problem is this does not apply in politics and the current theme (which is the same one as the new deal under FDR) is to create govt funded projects for the reason to put money out there, not really based on the project themselves. Kinda like just throwing money at the problem, Keynesian economics. Some of these projects DID have a lasting positive influence, others, not so much. My Grandmother told me stories of people being paid to flip bricks during the depression. Did not really seem to produce much benefit, other than the work itself. The real question is if deficit spending just to put money out there is the answer? I tend to think no, and historically the depression did not end until WWII so it didn't seem to work last time either. Proponents of Keynesian economics will just claim that it was not done soon enough, or enough was not done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/Tee...homeowner.html A father/son team. Son was shot by the homeowner. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

CA and TX have almost the exact same breakdown with exception to Blacks and Asians. CA: Racial/Ethnic Background White: 31.0% Black: 8.0% Hispanic: 48.5% Asian/Pacific Islander: 11.7% American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.8% TX: Racial/Ethnic Background White: 36.5% Black: 14.7% Hispanic: 45.3% Asian/Pacific Islander: 3.1% American Indian/Alaskan Native: 0.3% 48.5 and 45.3 should not be statistically significant. OR has less Hispanics and ranks higher (15.9), but Florida has less than both TX and CA (23.9) and ranks lower. So your supposition, does not seem to be supported. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Anyone who is not a felon, mentally deficient, and of legal age should be allowed to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. Edit to add: Most gun restrictions have been to oppress either a social class, or a race. NFA 1934 made it so that to own a MG, silencer, SBR, SBS..ect that you had to get an LEO signature and pay a 200 dollar tax. Notice this was a 200 tax on a less than 10 dollar item. This 200 dollars was about the monthly wage of an auto worker in Detroit. Adjusted for inflation it would be like paying a 3,000 tax on a 600 dollar gun. So if you were rich, you could get anything you wanted. The Omnibus Crime Bill made it so you could not order a gun by mail. Thus making it impossible back in that time for many blacks to buy a gun since many gun stores would not sell to them, and many municipalities had laws that allowed them to refuse service to blacks. The Gun Control Act of 1968 strengthen that. Many provision of the GCA of 1968 were good...Felons, mental deficient individuals..ect were prohibited. But it also brought the "sporting clause" which made it illegal to import firearms unless it was for hunting. This act strengthened the OCB. FFL's were created and still blacks were denied the right to own a weapon. The Firearm Owners' Protection Act was good except they snuck in the Hugues Amendment that prohibited the making and importation of MG's. Thus stopping the supply and increasing costs...Again, the rich can have whatever they want, the poor are screwed. To put this into an example, an MP5 for a police force costs about 1800 dollars. For a law abiding civilian to get a transferable one it will cost 18,000 dollars. (And it is a fine weapon). "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For those of us that are just now paying attention. What was stolen? Have you gotten it back? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Doubtful. CA has an income tax, yet compared to say TX (numbers for 2007) CA does terrible. CA also falls below FL which does not have a State income tax. OR does win this little 'battle', but the correlation between State incomes taxes and school performance does not seem to prove positive. Per-pupil expenditures however, does seem to show correlation. 8th grade math (280 national avg (NA)): TX: 286 OR: 284 CA: 270 FL: 277 8th grade reading (261 NA): OR: 266 TX: 261 FL: 260 CA: 251 8th grade science (2005 numbers is all I have, 147 NA) : OR: 153 TX: 143 FL: 141 CA: 136 8th grade writing (154 NA): FL: 158 OR: 155 TX: 151 CA: 148 Pupil to teacher ratio: CA: 20.8 TX: 15.0 FL: 16.8 OR: 19.5 Per-pupil expenditures: CA: $8,295 TX: $7,684 FL: $7,917 OR: $8,643 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I provided sources....You provided your opinion masquerading as data. I provided a reference, you provided your personal opinion. You can try to change those facts all you want....But your tap dancing will not change the fact you brought only your personal opinion and no references or sources. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And *I* have provided data...*You* have provided hearsay and no data. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Shot one yesterday. It was a Nazi capture gun reworked by the Fins. Really nice wood work. Just for plinking???? Get a .22 But, they are pretty cheap. I can get one for about 70 bucks and have been thinking about getting one just to get one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Appeal to emotion. Drowning has IN FACT been used to murder people. http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/national_world&id=6108153 You are doing EXACTLY what I claimed others are doing....You are vilifying a device since you fear it. You are vilifying a device for the ACTIONS of a person. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are trying to ignore it since you don't like the result. Nothing more. Yet children are often killed by OTHERS guns. Once again your attempt to cherry pick the data to twist it the way you want fails. The conclusion is that people ignore the greater risk of pools since they are seen as a good thing and focus on a lesser danger since they fear guns. AND to teach them about firearm safety. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

When I was 10 I could swim. So if you wanted to remove the children that are not old enough to use a gun you argument might hold water. As it stands now, yours does not. Fact, a child is much more likely to get killed by a pool than a gun. The fact that a pool is seen as "normal" and a gun as "scarry" is the only reason guns are vilified. Further you wishing to ignore the data since the size difference in the data sets is just dishonest since we are using the ratio of events to the number of the item. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Got it. You think only have the right to do anything or have an opinion. Our history is free game, but Germanys violent history does not matter. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334