Ron

How about a quote from him AFTER I said he would do it? After I said, "And following Kallend-logic, Auschwitz-Birkenau would have been fine if it was filled with Republicans or anyone else he disagrees with." He makes no apology for having a double standard. He relishes it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And following Kallend-logic, Auschwitz-Birkenau would have been fine if it was filled with Republicans or anyone else he disagrees with. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I expect this kind of tripe from you. Bill, I expect to be more logical. Wrong....But you are too filled with hate of Bush to see it. I would think of this as a violent act no matter who the target was. YOU on the other hand once again prove that you have a double standard. You are OK with people throwing things at Bush since you hate him...But we all know you would be up in arms if the target was Obama. Once again you show your hypocrisy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again you dance around trying to distract. Was the guy that threw a shoe at Bush trying to get Bush to listen to him? No! Once again you prove that you would rather bring irrelevant situations than admit you are wrong. Silly. The fact you can't see that this situation is 100% different than the hundreds of the ones you make up is amazing and just shows to what extent you will go to defend someone that shares your hatred of Bush. I can see that you will continue your irrelevant arguments to defend your hatred of Bush by proxy...So you may of course have the last word here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

With a 203 I could send a round through a window at 100 meters most of the time. It just took lots of practice...Luckily, I got a lot of practice. Pretty easy to hit an area target at that range...Doubt I could drop it in a trash can, but it had a kill radius of I think 20 feet and a 100 foot hurt box (it has been about 7 years...So that could be wrong). And at the time we had a buckshot round that basically turned the 203 into a BIG shotgun. Most of the time all we saw were practice rounds and HE rounds. The practice rounds were fun though. I used to try and fire them really high and drop them onto close targets. A RO once yelled at me and asked if I was trying to shoot down the space shuttle "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What I got is that you will argue anything and will never admit when you are wrong. You are the one that refuses to see that throwing something at someone in anger *IS* a violent act. You have not been able to prove otherwise and instead bring inane arguments. Its not nonsense since frankly I think you would do it. I guess since you will not admit that throwing something at someone is an act of violence there is no real point in even trying to have this discussion with you. But I bet if someone threw something at you in anger, that you would consider it an act of violence. Further, I bet you would say it was an act of violence if someone had thrown a shoe at Obama. The fact you can't see such a simple fact that throwing something at someone IS an act of violence can only be explained by you just not wanting it to be in THIS case since it was Bush who was the target. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then your example is silly. He had no intent to hurt you and he didn't hate you or wish you ill. Incorrect, you only make that statement since you are trying to be obtuse. I and everyone else knows there is a difference in the amount of damage possible (in the shoe case very little), but a few like you are claiming it was not a violent act at all. Again a nonsense reply from you. This person did not throw a shoe at a monitor. If someone yelled at you like this guy did and threw a shoe at you....I very much doubt you would not consider it a violent act. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you have valid points....And the "best" is always debatable. My thoughts are that in most cases it will be dark and a scatter gun like a 12GA is much better in those types of situations. The fact that it scatters means that you can really just point it in the correct direction and at house distances you will hit. Plus proper pistol use requires training and drilling. Most people buy a gun, load it and put it in a drawer "just in case". When people are in a panic....And most people will be in a state of panic when someone is breaking in....I'd rather them have the higher probability hit weapon than the weapon that requires training. Shot has a higher chance of hit, requires less training, plus the sound of a pump racking itself is enough to make a grown man cry. All in all I have more training with an M4 and I would be much more comfortable with it....But that does not mean it is the best choice based on pure ballistics and hit probability. But like I said...."best" is always subjective. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

As always...you try to blur an issue. I bet Tom was not mad at you. You fail to see how throwing something at someone in anger is violence...Well you have that right, but I personally think you are just being difficult to be difficult. I bet that if someone yelled insults at you and threw a shoe at you...You would at the very least ban them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have a SIG 239...The only drawback I can think of is the 7 round mags. But really...I have lived 36 years without ever needing a gun in America. If I end up needing a gun...I have already screwed up once. If I need more than 8 rounds, I have screwed up again. Kimbers are great weapons. The Kimber Pro II is very nice. *I* however do not like the idea of carry with a 1911 style weapon. *I* do not like weapons that have a safety that must be released before the weapon is brought online. There are cases of people being found dead holding a weapons with the weapons safety still on and not one shot fired. I like DA pistols since in the "fog" of a combat situation the easier the weapon is to use, the less chance of screwing it up. Honestly, Glocks are hard to beat. My 19 holds 15 rounds and my 23 holds 14. I train with the 19 since 9mm is cheap and I reload. *I* also do not like compacts since being so small they can be difficult to control on repeat shots. But as long as they fit well in your hand...It is the right size for you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree 100% and for the exact same reasons. And to answer jtval...Yes, I have changed my mind some after someone on here has brought logical comments to the table. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That really only works with light primer strikes. Failing to seat still requires you to move the slide forward. If you are in a life a death situation....Are you going to just keep the trigger and hope that something happens? Much better to perform emergency procedures just like you would with a parachute malfunction. A skydive is a bad place to perform in air rigging and a fire fight is a bad place to do armory work. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not true at all. You just have to have the 200.00 tax stamp on the form 4 BEFORE you make any modifications and the name and city of the new "Manufacturer" (You) must be engraved on the weapon .02 deep. For full auto you have to be an SOT since 86. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

12 ga shotgun....It is the best HD weapon really. I have an 870...But really any will do. I would get a short barrel, but I would not get the pistol grip. They are much smaller, but the regular stock is easier to get on target, fire, and get back on target. The pistol grip is great for hiding, but shooting, I'd rather have the regular stock and it is not like you have to hide it if you are in a HD situation. OO buck is a great ammo choice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If someone threw a shoe at you...I bet you would not say the same thing. Also, the courts would not agree with you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 % I missed the Roe v Wade and the Puritan one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Check your local Walmart. I get 1k rounds off 115gr win white box 9mm for under 200 everyday. One place in AZ supposedly sells it for 170.00. So you might want to check your local area. I shot about 2k rounds today. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but that does not make one OK and the other not. I disagree, an attacker with a slug in him might just end the whole situation or it might disable him enough to allow an escape. It might make the attacker think that the person will fire again and try to get away. Since the only real reason to pull a gun is to protect your life....I don't see how pulling a single shot weapon out is likely to make the situation worse....Maybe you could explain how the user could be worse off? I mean if you are afraid the guy is going to hurt/kill you...When would it be better to not have any defense ability? The point is this is for people who CAN'T use something else due to a disability. That would be like telling a person in a wheelchair that a ramp is not as good as stairs, so they should just get up and walk up the stairs. That is not really the issue. As you said, there are MUCH better weapons than this for both offense and defensive positions. This is for those who CAN'T use the better methods. That is a plus, not a drawback. Much easier to pull an "inhaler" out than a weapon in front of an attacker. A smart person might ham it up and grab their chest and tell the attacker they are having an asthma attack. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

True, but you would still recommend the noobie get a CYPRES right? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but not as silly as some other issues. It is still better than a no shot weapon don't ya think? And if a criminal does not have a weapon, they have to get into the range of such a device to do harm. Now, I don't know the effective range of this weapon, but I know I can draw and hip fire a weapon and hit a chest sized target from 2 meters 90% of the time. So even if this weapon only has an effective range of 1m or less, and only has one round. It is still better than a senior/disabled having to go hand to hand with an attacker IMO. And so have pain killers as you stated. But that does not mean people with disabilities have no right to a form of self defense...Lets face it, senior/disabled people are much more likely to be targeted than you or I for a mugging. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not having a problem finding guns at large retail outlets, but many smaller dealers cannot even find a gun to sell. My buddy and I looked at about 10 distributors today and found not one Glock for sale. I have been looking for a G23 for about 3 weeks and all of the distributors have been out. Several gun prices have gone through the roof. I have seen some AR15's that sold at 800-900 now being sold for 1200-1300. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think you know that I am not the sue happy type. But I can easily see how Walmart could be held liable here. 1. They promoted an event designed to draw in large eager crowds. 2. Historically this type of situation has happened before. I think employers have a responsibility to provide a level of reasonable security. In this case the store created an environment where a stampede was likely. They should also taken steps to protect the employees. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I find it sick that people are so careless and have such disregard for human life to trample a man to death to get a good deal. I think the man's family has every right to sue. Black Friday specials brought out a raging mob and a company has to take reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of their employees. This is not the first time something like this has occurred. So it should be reasonable to expect more protection for the employees. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh, look you did exactly what I said you would do. Once again, you show your lack of intellectual honesty. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have lived in 5 States. To include Texas. I have found that the people in TX are nice people for the most part. Houston, I personally cannot stand. But, all you have done here is show how narrow minded you are with this post. I mean you started a post to bitch about an entire State. A State I bet you have never lived in, or spent any time in....So your crying amounts to a whuffo who thinks skydiving is stupid, IMO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334