Ron

I remember reading a case years ago after the Hughes Amendment about a guy in GA (I think) that tried to send in a Form 1 to make a MG. It was pretty much dropped IIRC. Still, it would be great for some rich guy with time on his hands to send in a Form 1 today and sue over it... Although, I guess he would have to get arrested and then hope the SC would hear it. The arguments in the lower court in the Miller case were pretty cut and dry... The 2nd is more about civilians having "military" weapons than Joe-Bob having a deer rifle, or Dr. Snooty having a Clay gun. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe you are just not doing it right. I have fixed several, and they have been fine. I don't get into firefights, but I did (and do) trust the metal mags I was issued. They work as well as anything else I have seen and I have a whole freaking bunch of them. When they start to act up... I mark them and replace the spring.... Presto!!!! New mag. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Actually, SBR's, SBS's, and MG's were already in use in most military's at the time. The SC decision was won simply because the defense did not even bother to show up. Miller was a poor farmer... He had won his case at the district court and walked away. The DA took the case to the SC and Miller was nowhere to be seen. Why would he show and risk being thrown in jail? He walked away and AFAIK was never heard from again (pretty easy to do in 1939). His lawyer was paid less than 100 bucks to defend Miller in the first case (I want to say it was 60 bucks?).... Miller was not around and the lawyer was not about to pay out of his own pocket to go argue a case in front of the SC. Besides, he thought it was a pretty open and shut case. He filed a brief and called it a day. However, FDR wanted this gun control measure put into place... He had even mentioned increasing the size of the SC to fill it with judges that would rule in his favor. So basically.... firearms that were affected by the NFA 1934 law WERE in use in the military and the SC simply either didn't know that (and the prosecution was not about to tell them, and the defense didn't show), or they took the opportunity to pass what FDR wanted. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, but I also thought firing Imus was stupid. Of course, I don't listen/watch either. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Id like to hear for the 7 that say to ban them.... Why? What reason? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

TK you are confusing data and opinion. You could try to claim that your broken neck story is data.... But it and the story of your mother are only anecdotal evidence.... Single storys that prove a position, but do not prove anything more than that ONE situation. And for every single situation you produce, I can produce a situation on how Canadas system failed, or how the US system rocked. So no, out of all your posts you have brought tons of heartfelt opinions, but one piece of real data. Claiming an opinion as data does not make it data. Your heart is in the right place, but before you go digging into my wallet to build your idea of a perfect world..... You need to bring more than some personal sob storys and one mans dream of utopia. You continue to ignore how a class action suit had to be filed in Canada to oppose the system in place. You ignore the long waits, you ignore the lack of availabilty of care, you ignore the quality of care issues. If the best you can do is bring opinions and personal anecdotal evidence... Well you will never convince anyone of your position "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Of course I will admit there is a problem. I just don't agree with the solution being to change the very foundation of this country to socialism. That belief does not make me 'evil' or 'heartless' unlike how some wish to claim. The cost vs benefit and the true cost of any program needs to be considered, not just some feel good bumper sticker sayings. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

TK. You should know that you can't have a rational discussion using only emotion.... So far, you have brought ONE valid concern while ignoring everything that was brought up. You should know that you think with your head and feel with your heart.... You seem to want to feel with your head and think with your heart. Worse, you seem to want to demonize anyone that dare disagrees with you. You have a habit of doing this, but you should know that it is not rational. You have brought ONE piece of data.... Yet it is even incomplete since it does not include one bit of data about the cost of putting a single payer system in place in the US. AND you dismiss every bit of data that shows your 'perfect world' is far from it. Don't blame me for your inability to keep your emotions out of a discussion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Please don't try to play an emotional card with me..... Yes, I knew Jim... I also knew that he never bothered to tell anyone he was sick till he was in the hospital. You admit Canada has a problem and people come to the US for treatment.... Yet you want the US to be like Canada. Yes citizens of Canada had to sue the govt to be allowed to pay for health care because they felt the level of care they were getting was not good enough. Care to discuss some data and not just appeals to emotion? Care to discuss how Canada had to be sued, or how the other countries I listed are moving from the utopia you claim? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

how about starting with Canada that had to be sued by it's citizens to allow them to have private health care? Or you could start with England that is changing over some public to private hospitals since they are trying to reduce costs and increase care. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe your rant and name calling makes people not so interested in bothering to get into a discussion with you since they are pretty sure any 'discussion' from you will just be more insults? What do you want to discuss? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

so, your best argument is that you think it should happen.... So we can either go with you, or die fighting what we think is a bad idea that has not worked in other countries. Care to discuss how many countries that had single payer systems are now moving away from them? Or would you rather just demand what you want and tell us we are all stupid for not going along? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The NRA has offered time after time to give schools the Eddie Eagle program and materials. When I was in the 6th grade in FL we had a week where we learned about nature and during that week we learned how to build a fire and shoot bows and learned how to handle a firearm and shot BB guns. A good program that would be a great addition to any school IMO "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

your comment about per capita spending in Canada is interesting, but it does not really tell the whole story. According to the CIA world factbook, the US has more people below poverty level than Canada has total. So it is very possible that a solution that you think works on a much smaler scale will not work on a much larger scale. In addition, last I remember the socialized oil in Canada helps pay for the healthcare costs. Unless you are planning to socialize the oil industry here.... Then you don't have the income base that Canada has either. As for your issue of lots of paperwork.... Ever file taxes here in the US? Ever do anything that involved the US govt that did not involve tons of paperwork? You want free, quality, health care with no paperwork? Knowing what you know of the US govt, you should know it is not posssible. Looking at socialized medicine in other countries you should be able to see the failures. Yet it seems you have some idea that THIS time it will be better.... Looking at the grand failures of almost every govt program... You should see that it is not a reasonable position. In addition, I don't see it as unreasonable for people to oppose a massive govt program that will remove their ability to have control of their health. If you think the govt has managed to screw up the economy.... Why would you give them control of your HEALTH? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

About 1k rounds per caliber is the min. I try to have. But I have several K in some calibers since I got a deal on it... One guy at Academy kept asking me to take more.... And since it was a good deal, I left with about 7K... Now I wish I had bought more since you can't even find any. Also, I have a machine gun.... So 1k rounds is really nothing. I can do a mag dump of 32 rounds in around 2 seconds (at a cost of about 9 dollars). Matches often require 200-300 rounds, and classes often require 500-1000 rounds. Even a single round of clays requires 100 rounds. Basicaly, 1k rounds is not that much.... And if I had not stocked up, then I would not have had any ammo for the comps I did the last few Mths. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Again, you think Social Security is working out? Also, if you had the choice of have cancer treatments in the US or Canada.... Which would you choose? I also take offense that you think that anyone that thinks an individual should try to take care of themselves is a "nut job"..... I think the world would be MUCH better off if people tried to handle their own issues instead of expecting others to fix their problems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And don't forget that several countries that have socialized medicine have been moving away from it. Your own home of Canada just was sued to allow private heathcare... England is looking to privatize some hospitals. You think Social Security is being run well? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A pic from the jump. Chet Kuhn is flying the blue gripped jumpsuit, Scott Levy is flying the red rig. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The camp is half way done, we made 16 training jumps today with another 16 planned for tomorrow. The weather looks good, and the Otter will be flying starting at 8am... So call in sick, or just bail out early and start the weekend right. Two members of the Skydive Dallas Intermediate team Fusion were treated to a surprise after our team landed from our last training jump.... They were put into their slots on OUR team and filled in for our jump #17. They performed well and turned a 10+ point 8 way to include block 18. Our two replaced members organized a freefly jump and a 4 way jump from the locals that were out jumping. Saturday night the team will be holding a free exit seminar. So come make some jumps this weekend and then stick around for some free seminars. Also, if there is interest members of the team will be holding a basic body flight seminar and a freefly seminar. Again, all FREE "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Members of Skydive Dallas's new 8 way team will be giving a free 4way exit seminar Saturday evening May 9th at Skydive Dallas. Jim Rees, Ben Liston, and Brian Stephens, all members of the 19.3 average Mass Defiance 4 way team, will be leading the event. The seminar will provide a demonstration of each exit and provide coaching to the participants. May 16th, the team will be holding an 8 way exit seminar. A great opportunity to have the Dallas 8 way team assist your team in nailing those exits. Again it is FREE. The teams alternate will be available all day Saturday and Sunday on those weekends to help coach any team that shows up. This is a great opportunity to bring your team for FREE coaching, or come solo and pick up a few pointers for your next project. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You always need a plan. This is the one I use, you can take it and modify it so it works for you. 1. Memorize the sequence. Before we walk and creep, I run the dive through my head thinking just about the names/numbers and letters with not paying attention to how I am going to do anything. 2. I visualize the formations as they will appear on video, picturing me making the moves perfectly. This is difficult at first.... but keep at it, it gets easier as time goes by; I now can picture peoples jumpsuits flapping and the sun reflecting off of helmets and three rings. 3. I think about HOW I am going to make those stellar moves.... Which knee, what type of flash, who keys it...ect. 4. I visualize the dive from my slot thinking about the inputs/keys/flashing three or four times only. I figure this is planting a seed and no need to focus too much on it. 5. Before exit, I run it backwards ending up with just letters and numbers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Plus a major issue is how it hurts the poor more than the rich. Lets say you make 1 million a year and I make 10,000 a year. We both buy toilet paper. The X% tax on the goods is MUCH more a part of my income than yours. Some try to say that certain goods would be exempt (OK) or that lower incomes would be assisted with checks from the gov each mth. YIKES!!!! the largest entitlement system ever. The best, IMO, is still a flat rate tax on all income with an exemption for poverty level. So, say no tax till you make 13k (or whatever we call "poverty"), and then X% on every cent over that. Totally fair. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just trying to balance out the BS I have had to read...... but in this case its true and reflects my feelings about who some of those on that side of the spectrum really are. So the answer by your own words is that you can't. You feel you have to spout insults and are unable to act civil with people you disagree with. Got it. And: 1. You have never HAD to read anything, it is a choice you make. 2. It is your *opinion* that it is true.... Reference my first post to you in this thread about where you think others stand being more about where they are in relation to you than anything else. It is all a matter of your perception of the facts. The "facts" are things like the graphs I posted. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why don't more independent/republicans vote for third party candidates? The same reason independent/democrats don't vote for many third party candidates. Because third party candidates like Perot helped Clinton get elected and candidates like Nader helped Bush get elected. For the most part the third party people are unelectable and voting for them is almost a vote for the other party. I had high hopes for Paul, but once he was seen to have no chance, I could have voted for a third party candidate, but that would have been pissing my vote away (of course, my State made it really pissed away already). You really think that kind of BS is needed? You think that makes you look more center, or more extremist? Yet you call others extremist? Really? Care to try civil debate without the BS? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Economic Left/Right: 2.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.26 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334