rhys

would examine their own photo a bit closer they would see evidence against their own argument. Just beneath the cut showing heavy slag deposites is...OMG!...a pile of slag! If the column were cut pre-collapse that slag would not be just laying there, it would have been moved. Keep the PA's coming, i bet Billvon does not give 'you' a warning ( I hope I am not right). but keep em coming. It is amusing. I have to go to work but will address yours and others statements later. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

ha ha, thanks for chiming in, I have browsed the thread and will make comments later, but that 'debate' you just had there was golden. Imagineers! I have cut with oxy before and know from looking at that picture that it was not cut by hand, as you say the slag is dripping outward and the column would have had to have been cut from the inside out to achieve such a result, I am a hobbyist and have very simple welding tickets, it is nice to have the support and knowledge from more and more industry profesionals such as yourself. Thanks. I will comment on other posts later, too many jumps, christmas, summer, silly season!!! busy busy busy! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I cannot beleve you re an engineer!! Did you watch the recently released video that I posted earlier in this thread, if air pressure broke those windows that blow out. Don't confuse regular controlled demolition wuth 9/11, as much a 9/11 was controlled demolition, no building 'on record' has been imploded in the wa\y the twin towers were. eeeeeeeeh, wrong! These experiemnts and conclusions and hypothesies have already been done, and published, it is your neglect to acknowledge or understand them that results in your ignorant opinion. Where is your logic engineer guy. You agree with the scientific method but don't think it os applicable here? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

those are very clever, well researched and very humerous presentations. Thanks for sharing. I am Agnostic, and belive many that self proclaimed Athiests are actually also agnostic, but have never heard of the term or considered what it means, as I was! Athiests are usually athiests because they do not believe compiled garbage rather than being sure or definative about the origins of life. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I am in Australia, are you buying the plane tickets? Or how about you simply contribute their beliefs here for us all to discuss, are they suffering from respartory illness yet? If so are they getting compensation? Many are dead, dying or sick and your government ignores their needs, they are heros too, are they not? I would be interested to know what your FDNY 'hockey team' think of that? I Play centre and left wing, I'd be keen for a game though! and I prefer Emirates if you are buying me plane tickets! Should I bring my gear bag? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

O.k. here is there answer; http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2009/04/steven-jones-tells-911-debunkers-to-put.html UNLESS AN OBJECTOR ACTUALLY PUBLISHES HIS OR HER OBJECTION IN A PEER-REVIEWED ESTABLISHED JOURNAL (yes that would include Bentham Scientific journals), THEN THE OBJECTION IS NOT CONSIDERED SERIOUS IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY. YOU SHOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT NON-PUBLISHED OBJECTIONS EITHER. Your debunkings are simply conjured up and have no scientific value. First the scientific method should be used and then conclusion drawn. Conclusions come at the end of a scientific experiement, not the beginning. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I bet thepeople that don't have a father, brother, sister or mother due to the attacks or the resultings wars, understand quite clearly. I want nothing more than my beliefs to 'not true' i would like to think that we are headng in the right direction for the benifit of all. We are not, there are people dying and in serious pain, children without parents and parents without children, the destruction that you are quite happy with is inhumane, unforgiveble, and america spends trillions of dollars' increasing the global problems, and hate between nations. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

What i see and is clearly pointed out is the almost 'symmetrical' explosions blasting out the windows, immediately prior to the 'symmetrical' collapse. There is no sign of a raging fire, there were fires in the buildings and conveniently in the sections where inportant documents such as the enron case and other debarcles were held. It fell in 4.5 seconds and straight down, the core fell before the outer core, and there is not a fire to be seen from that angle just before the collapse. If fire was the reason, would there not be at least some traces of a inferno? at least, or do core columns simutainously give way due to random fires often? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I do not necessarily believe in 'man made' climate change, nor do I necesarily not believe it, I do believe however individuals and companies should be held accountable for 'pollution' they produce. What I am sure of; is that sending the leaders of all the major countries that benifit from polluting to come to an agreement is not a good way to resolve the issue..Now that that is clear... ...Are you trying to drift the thread Bill or are you trying to find a way to contribute without archiveing your ignorance? You yourself admitted you had never studied the official story by 'reading the publications', yet you consider yourself to be an expert on the machnics of what heppened that day. Have you taken the time to read the NIST or FEMA reports yet, The originals and the 'ammended' versions? Have you decided whether the scientific method was used, or have you simply browsed your Popular (auto) Mechanics magazine and watched Myth Busters? 'Lemmings' springs to mind, 'Beyond reasonable doubt' are the reaccuring words and 'PATHETIC' is my description of Americas patriotism. Patriotism does not mean waving a flag and sending your kids off to die, it means having a Government that is answerable to the 'population', if millions of people are not happy with what they are told and have valid questions that 'can be answered' and will not be, you have a serious problem. Defending war criminals that are already exposed, only makes an ass of yourself, you know what these people do and have done, and it is you that decides what to believe. You have already 'violently' opposed the thought of a conspiracy, and have 'waged' your reputaion on it, so I cann't ever expect a turn around in opinion from you or any of the other 'hard core deniers'. Fortunately only 51% of the population is needed to stop the craziness, and 85% are sheep that are too apathetic to have made such comments that they will have to defend to the death becasue being wrong or ill informed, is not an option. I don't write these posts to convince you or any of the other 'daily posters', there are hundreds of people that read this stuff, and we are essentialy on a stage for the entertainment of most. Most people, in such a topic would rather not comment. Remember when you were arguing against WMD's and no one would listen to you..... wake up! It is quite funny that initially speaking up against the official story would jepardise ones reputaton, but many did and were 'flamed' by indviduals such as yourself. In reality you are defending pathietic lies and as the thesis' , journals and publications come out, the truth movement grows by massive numbers each day, week, month, year... 9/11 blogger has over 17million hits in 5 years, and now gets tens of thousands of hits a day, this is only one of many websites. This is one of the latest entiries and one you all should seriously consider; Merry Christmas, I hope when you are celebrating 'life' this christmas you think of the millions of peope that are suffering due to the 'percentage' in americ that think the way you do. You should feel guilty but for some reason you don't! It must be confusng for you. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That shows that your ignorence. This has been a 'hot topic' for 'years' there are millions of people that are 'furious' about the 'official story' including first reponders, people that were inside the buildings when they were his and damaged by internal explosions, the first reports on the news commented about, secondary expolosions, there is explosive material in 'All' of the dust, the NIST report is false and does not use the 'scientific method'. The phone calls about box cutters being used, 'did not exist' and this is confirmed by the FBI, why don;t you know? Dicussing it is 'Taboo' and it is banned from the 'rupert murdoch' empire. You pronbably only see stuuf from his channels, and he is one of the 'trouble makers'. I suggest you do a little reserch if you have not heard of this before, This is the reason why people like me continue to spread the truth, becuase your 'free media' and constitution are under attack from greedy cunts! better open your eyes up! Tell me with your untainted opinion from the official story, how you really believe; a, the pilots were overpowered. b, the buildings fell down. you don't have to go into detail bit both of those scenarios have had various scenarios published by the 'official story', but as they are proven wrong the story changes. I'm not prodding you but if you are honest with yourself you would listen to any, potential scenario. Is iot so audacious to think the (group of villans within your) government would kill thousands of americans to gain billions or trillionsof dollars and absolute power? how is that such a crazy scenario? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I couldn't agree more. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Our uniforms consist of a pair of 3/4 swoop pants a tshirt ad a winstopper jacket. I can't quite get whether you are being sacastic or not? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Hi, It really depends on the season as to how much your annual income will be, One year might be bumper and you might earn $10-20k more than average and the DZO might take on more staff to allow for growth and that may reduce your income by a similar amount. I have been actively seeking the 'best position' for income since starting skydiving and have had some less than average positions, I believe my current position is amoung the best available as a commercial skydiver. I began skydiving with the main intention of gaining a fun and lucrative career. my current position will (according to past years averages) give me about AUS$80,000(US$70-75k). But we have to have our own LLC's and pay our own Workers compensation/insurance, superannuation and tax's. Our company is also GST regesterd, My wife earns the same and we share the company. We pay ourselves $40k each and try to invest as much as we can back in the business by purchasing equipment, attending training camps, competitions and records, and plain old fun jumping. The more we invest in this stuff the less company tax we pay.[;) and we can claim the GST(VAT) and tax and depreciation back on any purchases also. I have worked at places where I struggled to make a living also... it really depends on each individual dropzone and how it is run. My Current DZ is Tandem with handicam only, we only have to supply our cameras, altis, handcam gloves, and flotation devices, we are supplied uniforms. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I wouldn't bother, i demoed one for 15 consecutive jumps and found the flight and stall charachtaristics to be less than average. The lack of cross ports and a poor design makes the corners of the nose fold under while spiraling hard and the stall point is much sooner than what other canpies flare point is. Did I mention the hard openings? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I don't believe it should be an issue, the hinging thing you mention is not IMHO a problem. I lean back on all my landings as I flare so my customer is essentially on top of me, I slide myself underneath them on landing and this action coupled with a smooth surface and a well timed and executed approach and flare often results in a nice stand up landing. You can be as likely to hurt yourself and your customer if you are attached or not, your actions and the situation can vary immensly. Just try to avoid being in a 'Thumping In' situation. Competence is a major contributing factor! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Hello profound engineer expert guy, how How about this for logic... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjImLL4NnwA&feature=player_embedded Tell me how anyone knows box cutters were used, how have you clarified this information was true? That is what you were told that s all, you wouldn't have a clue what heppened that day because you (when i say 'You' I mean all of you lemmings) fail to use any energy studying the information that is available. You paint a question with an answer and defy logic. You just do your job and take it in the ass from above. Quite sad really, and the downfall of modern society. Apathy. Fortunately those of your ilk will slowly but surely have to come to terms with reality and will have to crawl out of the sad little falsehood you like to think of as reality. Be it when it is too late or just in time, it will happen within our lfeltimes unless we perish prematurely. This internet thing we (are addicted to, and) take for granted these days, has given us 'all' the power to decide and investigat for ourselves what the news is, Only 15 years ago this was not 'so' possible. 9/11 has history longer then 15 years, and the mindthought and actions used by the perpertrators that day has been used successfully for decades. The internet coupled with thier sheer greed and pathetic attempt at pulling the wool over the eyes of global society, worked initially. We wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise, but it did not work in the sence that they have got away with it, they are using much of their energy keeping their story alive and as they continue they consitently leave gaps in their story, and give us another peer reviewd journal or 3. Ths will be studied and discussed for evermore, the repercussions of the actions we have all experienced in the last decade have shaped history in a way that you deniers quite simply refuse to acknowledge. Instead you continue to be fucked up the ass from those that wish to feed it to you! Quite pathetic really. But we are all entitled to our own opinions and actions though, arent we! While you and your mates talk about this years cool gun, there are scholars that are producing the evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Slowly but surely the truth movement grows and slowly but surely the information is published. I'll give you all one thing to ponder each day (if you wish) There are tousands for me to publish to you but you seem to only be able to handle one at a time. You use tangents and irrelevant points to stray away from your denial. Do some homework and open your eyes, better soner than later! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Wow what a bunch of profound substanciated comments, I suppose the subject isn't that importants so making jukes about it is O.k. It not like the lie has been the cause of mass murder of americans, iraqis andand afghanis, it's not like it was an act of treason and has affected global security and laws, it's not like you guys are a bunch of lemmings... It is about time you all woke up from your dreamworld, you life is about to get ugly over the next decade. You will look back and wonder what it might have been like if you had grown a backbone and questioned the bullshit you are fed on a daily basis. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Don't flatter yourself; I was banned for 2 weeks for suggesting that johnrich should kill himself and just been let loose... True you should continue talking about the original topic, but if you think that you have succeeded in sweeping 911 truths under the carpet, think again. Lies are lies and more lies don't make truths, they make idiots! Laugh if you will, but you laugh at yourself, your country, your liberties and your freedom. I'll leave you to your yarn, but to think 911 truth is irrelevant and bringing it up is trolling is ludicrous and disrespectful to those that have fallen. Peace! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Good! anyone that wants to own such a weapon should be ragarded as potentially dangerous. There is no need for such aggressive behaviour, it only encourages death and destruction and that is not good at all. Hunting if done respectfully is o.k. but 'every' gun owner should have a background check. Any violent crimes or tendencies and gun ownership should be seriously considered. Too many nut cases out there to allow open slather! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Riddle me this rule boy; If these high speed cool guy canopies are so.... ...Wrong. And we should all follow the reccomendations of the manufacturers 'by the book'... Why do the manufacturers themselves supply companies that quite obviously do in the numbers of over 10's of thousands of tandems per year... ...also knowing they use 'say' Icarus '280, 300 and 330' canopies or daedalus or jojo wing '285' cross braced tandem canopies, as well as 'say' Precision reserves? Do you think the manufacturers stick to thier own recommendations?? Or would they rather sell another million dollars worth of containers? If there was that much to worry about why would they do that?? I appreciate the lesson, but I have yet to even break a nail on a student (touch wood!) myself and my 'customers' all have a great time. I only stand landings that are 'standable' but a high proportion of them are. I don't mind sitting and will if I have any doubt that I cannot stand safely. I don't want to drift the thread, but wanted to at least address a couple of the concerns in your 'rant'. WTF, what are you on pal! You assume I don't check my equipment and we have substandard gear?!!?!? How can you imply such bullshit based on your own warped version of how we operate. It seems you think I have an ego or something? I marely speak my mind and am honest with myself. I don't know which utopia dropzone you work at, but if everybody is the same as you i bet it is a small dropzone? toodleloo "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Thnaks for that info. Do you know how much chance there will be to train at the site before the competition starts? I could/would arrive earlier if I knew I could utilise the time for training, I have asked the event organisers with no deifinitive answer. see you there, Rhys "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Where is the towering inferno? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=972ETepp4GI&NR=1 Why do the majority of you support lies? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

HA HA see how wound up people get when one person speaks the voice of the majority. I have worked at plenty of dropzones. 'None' used 'only' the container manufactures recommended canopies, only one tandem master out of well over 100 that I am aware of reconnected the side attachments to the student harness, and most of the tandem masters (including myself at times) allowed themselves to parctice tecniques that they felt uncomfortable with, because they did not want to comprimise thier positions as tandem instructors at the said Dropzone. If you read the forums here you would be lead to believe that every tandem instructor follows the rules 'by the book', but in reality only a small proportion does, and a small proportion of dropzones also. There is an element of capitalism involed, when it comes to 'recommended canopies'. Of course strong will only reccomend thier own canopies, and UPT, thiers. Set 400's and 3 sixty whatever they have decided on are shit canpoies that are more likely to hurt you and you passenger than 'non approved' canopies. Sigma canopies are oversized stillettos that continue to turn after you stop giving them input, they whip around and IMHO are not good tandem canopies, many will disagree, but i'm not going to get into that right now. the words of the day are "common sense". If you are not in the United states it becomes the recommendations of the local paracchuting part 149 holder and their rules. Try being honest with yourselves. If you do follow the rules 'by he book' i respect that but pity you, becasue IMHO you will never be able to fly a decent tandem canopy. Easy, don't put your toggles where they can be caught on anything, as I said before, icarus 330's would be stalling if you put you toggles at the hips of the customer. I use handicam and are ussed to keeping the toggles in frron of me. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

O?K rule boy I';ll take your advice but will not utilise it, next time you jump a stron rig without a set 400 canopy in it, think about this conversation. I keep it real but i bet in real life you are just as scared to spaek up against the DZO as the next guy. it is easy to be 'rule boy' on an internet firum but in real life you'll just shut up and do your job. I'll keep it real! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

the 'Official story' is the joke, Your laws have been broken by your superiors, you liberties have been taken away and no tru investigation as to what happened that day has never been done. Who cares what they build there, the more important questions are; Why is the truth being witheld? Why is your government pushing for unversal healthcare but won't listen to or acknowlwdge the the many 9/11 first reponders that 'ARE DYING' due to being heros that day. Why is the last guy out of the towers who worked there for 20 years not being listened to. (He witnessed many explosions) Why are 'Millions' of people around the world outraged with the false story that has been 'fed to us'. Why is the information that would clear the issue up beyond reasonable doubt being witheld by the US government. Why is a police state being forcibly imposed upon us. Why is a war that kills innocent civilians including thousands of children, being described as 'Just'. Why does the majority of america believe that crap? Why is america not being patriotic and questioning the authorites? ... Build a mosque, a temple, a church, a place to hang out and a place to express ones individual thoughts at ground Zero. I am no christain , muslim, or Bhuddist... I am agnostic and actually do not beleive any of that stuff, but I do beleive that each individual should be able to express thier beliefs. USA was not attacked by Muslim terrorists that day, America and the whole world for that matter was attacked by a 'bunch' of international terrorists that have the USA government under control. These are international war criminals that are resonsable for treason, mass murder and the removal of cival liberties. They should be tried by the people, their fortunes removed injected back into the economy and everything will be 'hunky dory', the chance of that happening... ...is up to you all as individuals the accept what is obviously happening around you. You just have to take your mind off, work, your bills, your internet chat room, your ipod, your girlfriend, your car and the car you desire, you skydiving ability and all the things that cloud your mind from making informed and educated decisions. Be sceptical of the crap you are fed and the truth will rear it's ugly head. check out; http://911blogger.com/dailynews http://www.ae911truth.org/ http://www.911truth.org/ http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?cat=8 http://www.stj911.com/forum.html http://www.911sharethetruth.com/ http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/ http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&hs=WL6&num=30&q=911+truth&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq= ALL of these people are being refused thier civil liberties, and thier right to have their 'findings' published in the mass media. In fact the mass media and the governmwnt are 'going out of thier way' to make sure they cannot do so. Your media is controlled and filtered, this is not the 'american way' patriotism is the american way, so start asking questions folks. Leave islam alone and concentrate on the real problem. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix