rhys

Don't charm yourself, I don't believe organic matter can mix wth molten aluminium, it will burn and potentially stick to the surface with the other crap that is on the metal, but it will not freely mix with the metal itself. this is not very hard to understand, and your buddies down at NIST quite clearly could not mix it with thier experiment on the matter try watching it this time CLICK THIS CLICKY AND WATCH It is not indicative of the colour of the metal, much rather the inability for any organic matter to frrely mix with the metal, upon contact it would immedately ignighte and turn to ash and would only remain within the metal by means of force. it would tend to gather and stck to the next available surface that is cooler than the metal. The metal flowing from the WTC immediately prior to collapse, IMHO was not Aluminium. That is all. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

the Link does not work in that post, This link is working for those that are interested. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So the 970 plus engineers and architects that have signed a petition, and believe nano therite was used, are not engineers or architects in you opinion? The scientists that have written peer reviewed journals relating to this matter are not scientists? Explain? By accident?, they are photos from a book clearly about melting iron. They were deliberatly published to defame Dr. Stephen Jones. The rest of them are furnices, controlled enviroments and are designed to sustain immense heat. all of these explanations have been linked for your information ealier but once again you simply ignores them. The WTC was a building made of concrete and steel designed to hold people an office equipment. They are explained in this journal but you don't understand it, or refuse to read or comment on it and continue to ignore what I am saying. "I KNOW ALUMINIUM CAN GLOW BRIGHT ORANGE IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT AND ONLY AT A MUCH GREATER TEMPERATURE THAN MELTING POINT ALUMINIUM IS SILVER WHEN MELTED AN FLOWS EASILY WHEN STILL A SILVER GREY COLOUR" DID yo get that I'll repeat it in case you are a speed reader that accidentily missed stuff! "I KNOW ALUMINIUM CAN GLOW BRIGHT ORANGE IN A CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT AND ONLY AT A MUCH GREATER TEMPERATURE THAN MELTING POINT ALUMINIUM IS SILVER WHEN MELTED AN FLOWS EASILY WHEN STILL A SILVER GREY COLOUR" Several people here are trying to help you understand that aluminum does indeed glow varying colors but you refuse to accept the fact, even though it is basic, and I mean very basic, physics at work. Stuff kids too young to drive study in high school and understand very well. See above, as I explained earlier, I have melted aluminium many times and casted it into differnt shapes. It was never orange because I had no reason to heat it that much, it flows nicely when it is still silver. I 'KNOW IT CAN BE ORANGE' I said that but you refuse to acknowledge that Here is aluminium heated to 1800 degrees show in a video, that is 1000 degrees hotter than what bill is saying was the temperature of the fires. What colour is it once it touches a colder surface? silver. Notice the aluminium still attached to the near white hot recepticle is also silver in colour. Here is the NIST team trying to experiment with organic matter and molten aluminium in daylight. Now we have discussed our thoughts on the colour of aluminium, lets consider what NIST said, ***NIST concluded that the source of the molten material was aluminum alloys from the aircraft, since these are known to melt between 475 degrees Celsius and 640 degrees Celsius (depending on the particular alloy), well below the expected temperatures (about 1,000 degrees Celsius) in the vicinity of the fires. Aluminum is not expected to ignite at normal fire temperatures and there is no visual indication that the material flowing from the tower was burning. Pure liquid aluminum would be expected to appear silvery. However, the molten metal was very likely mixed with large amounts of hot, partially burned, solid organic materials (e.g., furniture, carpets, partitions and computers) which can display an orange glow, much like logs burning in a fireplace. The apparent color also would have been affected by slag formation on the surface. so you have all beeen arguing that the aluminium was at 800 degrees, and was glowing orange, when NIST claimed it was the organic matter that was glowing. Why do you spend so much time arguing an irellevant point? I could have pointed this out to you before but I wanted to point out how your own conclusions are differetn to the NIST's. [/laugh] "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

if a metal starts flowing at 640degrees, why does it stck around to reach a temeperature of 160 degrees more? Even if it did, once it has flowed across a concrete floor, burning carpet and other office equipment, falls hundreds of feet... why would it still be at this temperature? You are content to accept this, I am not, it is only a very small anomolie in the debarcle and you have shown you are not receptive to the idea that molten aluminium does not have to be a glowing orange, I have made it clear that I 'know' it can glow that colour. But you heve decied that , because the temeratures of the fires 'could' have reached 800 degrees that the metal that was plummeting hundred of feet is still that temerature due to hydrocarbon fires in an uncontrolled environment. That is your choice. we are not going to achieve anything by continuing this aspect of the story. If you are so certain that the official story is correct, how are you so certain the suspects are guilty if there has never been an investigation? And how do you think it is reasonable to never hold an investigation into a crime of this magnitude? Is it common in the USA to base a conclusion on a couple of unlikely clues? Is that how your science experiments work also? Where I come from, someone is innocent until 'proven' guilty, and conclustions are based on experiemnts and evidence... concrete evidence and well executed experiments. The one real question I have for you in all this, is; Why do you oppsoe an investigation if you are so sure you have nothing to worry about? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

i am highly skeptical of; mini nukes missiles with holograms Reptilian shape-shifting aliens satans head in the smoke and any other stupid unfounded theories; I have included information and many accounts of why I believe what I do, and you all have accepted a stroy that as not ever been confirmed. building collapses aside, you have nothing to go on than believing 'stroies' that are told to you by your superiors. Weapons of mass destruction? Lies! You invaded a country, murdered it's citizens and destroyed it's infrastructure, based on unfounded, blatanty obvious and totally maufactured Lies. Why should you believe the terrorist stories when they have not even bothered to investigate the facts, evidence and motives behind the attacks? Who benifited from these lies? YOU? I don't think so, you country is now broke and stuck in a rut! Are yo more free due to the knee jerk reaction? No you have lost more rights and are in more danger of a terrorist attack. Have you stopped any terrorism? No you have created much more, terrorism is based on hate, many people hate America, why? because you are bullies and attack innocent people, kill them, maim them, kill thier wifes, mothers, children, friends, grandparents and entire families. How does this help the fight against terrorism? It doesn't, it creates more angry people filled with justified hatred towards your country and makes you less safe than you ever were before. Do you blame them? How would you feel if some foreigner came and killed your family, destroyed you neigbourhood, inflicted excruciating pain on you and laughed about it? You would want revenge! you would want war. I know what your answer will likely be; "They did they attaked us with hijacked airplanes..." How the fuck do you know? If someone lies to you, and you find out the lie was purposful and decieving. Are you inclined to accept their word again in the future? A "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Judy forgot to tell us all that two of those photos are in fact molten iron and are published in a book called Iron Melting Cupola Furnaces for the Small Foundry By Stephen D. Chastain. Stephen D Chastain was contacted and he confirmed that the liquid in the photos is in fact iron; here is the coverof the book by the same author metal casting: a sand casting manual for the small foundry vol 2 Now let me be clear to all of you guys that this photo (metal casting: a sand casting manual for the small foundry vol 2) is an example of what I have withnessed many times when I have been casting aluminium, I was a jeweller and sculptor when I immediately left school and was so for a period of 5 years, I melted metal on a regular basis with an oxy acetylene plant. It is the observations I made while doing this that have allowed me to understand what molten metal should look like. I am totally aware and I'm sure Dr. Stven Jones is also aware that aluminium is capable of glowing orange, but not until it is heated significantly above its melting point. The photos you are providing and the journals you provide are bogus. You are 'the pot calling the kettle black'. Why not show an experiment where molten aluminium is allowed to fall through the air? How is a smoke filled oxygen starved office fire akin to a furnace? it is not! keep trying! I would like to be proven wrong, but I believe your efforts are in vien, it is quite obvious your understanding of the properties of molten aluminium are limited, even if you profess to be an engineer! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

you are laughing at the reason your country is currently in two wars! you are laughing at freedom you are laughing at the loss of you rights. you are not laughing at me, you are laughing at millions of concerned citizens of this planet. and you are spting and trampling on the graves of thousands of people. You should all be ashamed of yourselves! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I read that report today, you failed to mention that metal; A, is indoors in a dark room B, has a powerful current surging through it C, is still in the process of being heated to a much higher temperature D, was not glowing orange when it first melted you also might notice it has just been removed from the heat source in a controlled environment and is being poured only a few cetemetres from a red hot recepticle. Kooks science! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

based on what information? I'll answer whatever you ask to the best of my knowledge or effort, do refresh my memory mike, without clouding it with other information designed to distact from the subject. what questions? ? I'm not going to get hung up on semantics but I do believe you are ill informed; "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Why is light front riser pressure necessarily a good thing? i find canopies with light front riser pressure to be less agressive and have less performence. I jump a JVX, it has high front riser pressure, but dives really well. It is loded at 2.4 and loses 900ft in a 270 degree turn. I would recommend a JVX, but you have not listed one on your options. What is your primary reason for using he canopy? camera, fun jumping or competition swooping..? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

if you earn a taxable income you have to pay tax, if your business pays more outgoings than it recieves as income, then you did not earn a taxable income. Do you have a clue of taxation law? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You have all decided you know who is responsable for 9/11, there has been no investigation, the trial has not taken place yet, millions of people world wide are demanding an investigation, peer reviewd articles to the contrary of the official story are being published left right and centre, hundreds of thousands of people are dead or maimed based on unfounded lies. Tell me again how you think you know who is responsable for 9/11? and how it is a laughing matter? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

a reminder of what you are laughing about; 1 3 ... do i need to go on, the USA has alot to answer for, and if your arrogant and ignorant attitude continues, i would not be surprised it you are subject to such destruction yourseleves. You (the USA) act like you are bulletproof but you are just plain old arrogant. About time you guys felt some pain and suffering, maybe then you might take such subjects more seriously. there are at least 100,000 people dead due to lies and corruption. they are dead because 3000 of your citizens died. You all just brush that off as an 'oopsydaisy'. imaging how all those families are feeling right now? how 'has you war on terror' helped at all? do you not expect a reaction? If your mother and father and childern all died and you had nothing left to live for, would you give a shit about dying for that sake of revenge? think about it you fucking selfish, idiotic, heartless, violent, greedy cunts! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Not really, just pointing out to others that aluminium flows easily when it is still sliver colour. Why would it stick around until it is 800 degrees when it could easily flow away at a much lower temperature? and even if it was heated as it flowed across a giant heat sink that is a steel and concrete floor section, would it still be 800 degrees when it had fallen hundreds of feet? bill logic does not make sence. Also, Why is there nano thrmite in "all" dust samples tested by independant reseachers, some combusted and some not. Why is there abundant amounts of iron microspheres also in the dust. If you think there is not, how do you claim to know this when NIST admits to never searching for it? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

wow, the fires reached "at least" 800 degrees, so aluminium that has fallen hundreds of feet in a shower through cool morning air would still be 800 degrees? you really are stretching your imagination there Bill. Let me tell you, aluminium remains silver well after it melts, you have to increase the heat significantly to produce a glowing orange of that shade, keeping it that hot while falling hundreds of feet? well, you decide! You seem quite content with your thoughts and observations so i'll leave you with them. Attached is a photo of molten aluminiun just to refresh you memory. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

This thread will be golden when it comes time to narrow out the disrespectful individuals that have 'jumped to conclusions' and have little understanding of what happened in the build up to that trajic day. Continue, please. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

and a small chunk? falling through the air, like in the photo attached to this post. would you find it reasonable to assume aluminium would behave in this manner? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

O.K. thanks for that, i'll look into it some more to determine my thoughts. I'll also aske the publishers of the atricle what thier thoughts on your statement/findings may be. This is intellegent conversation and goes some way towards a conclusive decsion, al long way off but movements in the right direction. if only the others in here could be as rational with their replies, we might actually have a debate. Thanks again, i'll report back with any findings. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Awesome, all of those are reasons i am agnosic. and it is certainly good reson to believe that christians are idiots that have no clue about what they base thier lives upon, the same could be said for islamic and other religons. good viewing and well thought out. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

A building performance report/nist report simply states the mechanics of how the building came to collapse. A criminl investigation would determine who was responsable. If i started waving my hands and saying "i did it' would that make me responsable? The US economy has spent many billions of dollars with a knee jerk reaction "war on terror' and you oppose an investigation to clarify who was responsable in the first place? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Are you suggesting there was in fact a criminal investigation?, I'm not talking about a building performance report, but a criminal investigation. As far as I am aware this was never done and the 'war on terror' was based on assumtion not fact. so tell me again how it wouldbe a waste of money? Abd if in fact an investigation has been done, would you please link some details for me/us to view? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

my argument for wanting a crimianl investigation? no why? I don't claim to know what happened that day, you do. I would like to know. how is that an unreasonable argument? you think oyu know what i think and want but quite clearly can't get you head around the fact that i don't claim to know what hapened there, you don't and ontly the perpertrators know. Again, how is wanting a legitemeate, transparent investigation unreasonable? To show you that not all truthers think a missile hit the pentagon. and there is more than two possibilities. How can you reasonably expect to think that I could ansWer that question? That question is stupid! the witnesses said what they said, i don't necessarily believe the CIT hypotheses, and it is speculation to say they were or were not telling the truth. what I don't beieve is that a passenger jet hit the pentaon that day, the reason, there is not enough visual evidence to suggest so. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

you dismiss the information based on its source? you are saying that "if someone wants an new investigation, they are wrong" you are saying anyone that thinks differently to me is wrong" try refuting its contents and not 'judging a book by its cover'. Yes I would care to address it, I asked if you believe that moulten aluminium will continue to glow orange while falling hundreds of feet through the New York morning air, and if it will freely mix with organic matter to obtain this colour.' I may have missed your reponse, but do not recall seeing it, what is your response? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Like i said, i don't want to speculate, i just want a crminal investigation. The data is what is considered official. There is more than enough evidence to indicate an investigation is needed to determine what happened. do you oppose another investigation? and if you do, why do you oppsoe it? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So you refute the findings of nano thermite in the dust in manhattan on 9/11? did you look for it? did nist look for it? On what grounds would you call the steven jones and richard gage idiots? they have evidence that you don't have, the nist did not look for, and you can simply brush them off as idiots? The faimilies of the deceased would like to have some of the dust from 9/11/ beacyse they don't have any remains of thier family memebrs thet perished that day, it sits in a dump and they can't have some? why? what is so secrt about the dust? don't worry these people (richard gage and srephen jones) are more than capable of continuling and bringing out the truth. They are having expenential progress and their following is gaining the same sort of following. Richard will leave New Zeland shortly to visit Japan, after his japan visit, i will be surprised if you don't see this in the worlds headlines, once out of rupert murdochs empire, you cannot stop a news worth story from spreading, it sells advertising you know. pleny of electronics and new cars to sell in japan, they want those ratings. you assume we think GWB planned it himself and that the left think that GWB was reponsable for everything his administration carried out. a stupid assumtion. GWB is an idiot, and if you refue that, then you as also one. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix