rhys

They work until about 9k then they don't work anymore. How about the feefall anomoly Bill, you and old belgium boy still have not answered the simple question. Yet you claim to be so sure of the NIST report being so true and complete, it now says freefall of building 7 occured for at least 2.5 seconds. Was the freefall accelerartion of WTC7's colapse an anomoly in you mind, and if not where has the precedent been set for this before? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

1 round to go, then freestyle. I got a donut factory in the speed rounds All good though learning alot. Kaz had a ripper of a distance run this morning. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That is false and misleading, you need to do your reaserch a bit better. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I try to avoid speculation these days, I have learned it can lead you way from you cause. but I will suggest a reason why they didn't 'just plant bombs'. You do realise what facilities were in building 7 don't you? the fact they have denied the possibility of explosives is aginst the rules of investigting such a disaster, if the public were to find out/be told that terrorists can infltrate the CIA headquarters and other government secret spots without detection and carry out the attack, then the fear mongering wouldn't work because the american pulic wouldn't feel very well protected. Shyam Sunder and John Gross will go down for drylabbing and 'serious movements' are being made at present to make sure this is fast tracked. Once this has happened, then we can get the real answers to your questions. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I am sure going to try my best to. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

It seem they did, there is ample evidence for this and we have untold different angles of thm doing so. I have read about theories of holographic blah blah but I have no reason to think that this is a reasonable assertion. People that are willing to kill thousands of people, would likely be willing to have an airplane fly into the towers to make the collapses seem viable. why do you ask? I will try to answer any reasonable question. I will not answer it 58 times because the person that asked it failed to acknowldge the answer the first, second or eighth time. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

If it lasts anywhere as long as the 'other' blow switches it is very cost effective. My wife uses conceptus bite switches and has purchased many of them and some have been replaced free of charge, but the customers that were paying for the photos will never have stills of thier first jump, ever. She maust have spent hundreds of dollars on them over her skydiving career. I use a blow switch and had to heavily modify (file) the switch to fit inside my Rawa helmet. It has never failed I would like to try one of these units It seems like the perfect soluton to me. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You are supposed to be an engineer, yet all your arguments are simply attacks on those that at least have the knowledge and integrity to present their argument in a scientific and professional manner. Your lack of respect and judgmental opinion is completely unprofessional and unscientific, yet you have the audacity to criticise these hard working and respectable professionals. If you had integrity, you would at least be able to argue you point without insulting people. You seem to find some sort of satisfaction out of these insults, quite shallow really. I won't even bother discussing it with you anymore, unless that is you can present your argument in a reasonable manner. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Human nature, poke a guy in the shoulder and he's likely to arc up. Simple, you get over these things, murder and treason you do not. My integrity is questioned simply because I have the audacity to question the authorities; this comes with name calling and similar tactic to coerce me to conform. so you don't consider it an anomaly that building 7 that apparently collapsed due to fire was able to reach virtual free fall speed? If you don't consider this an anomaly, can you point out to me where the precedent for this has been set in the past. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

It has occurred to me plenty of times, especially when you, mike and the other hard core deniers state that that is the motive behind movies such as fahrenheit 9/11, loose change etc. This stuff i consider every time I look at any subject matter. These people would not have such a following without the concerns they have being feasible, and in line with what we witnessed. There is plenty of evidence and subject matter to discuss. You are so sure of the NIST report being the most likely scenario, yet you argued that freefall did not happen during the collapses, most of you did prior to last year, but since NIST were forced to include freefall acceleration of building 7 for at least 2.5 seconds in their hypothesis, all due to the investigations of a high school teacher and his question posed (publicly) to them. All of a sudden there ‘is’ freefall and neither you nor your comrades have even stopped to consider the ramifications of that simple inclusion. You avoided answering my question about this as you 'know’ you argued to the contrary earlier in the debate, (like 4 years ago!) before the NIST changed their hypothesis, and you have to ‘stick to your guns’ to protect you integrity. You have been duped, it is obvious and you are in denial! You agreed you see corruption "all the time", why would the American government be any less likely to experience this phenomenon? As they say; absolute power corrupts, absolutely "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I m not trying to making a difference to you and I don't claim to be the one that is making the difference. I just find it interesting and wish to learn more about it. As much as I may not agree with many of you, your standpoint is very valuable in being honest with myself about what I believe in. I could care less what anyone thinks of me, and am willing to go out on a limb to discover what I wish to learn. Happiness for me comes from knowing I have done the right thing, unfortunately not everybody thinks like that. The silly names and ostracising techniques help give me energy and help me refrain from apathy. Apathy and/or conforming is the easy option, not the right option. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I just met her today training for the aussie swoop nationals. I’ll take heed of that and watch her tomorrow. Your other points are very interesting and insightful too, thanks. This subject interests me immensely and I have thought of an experiment to see if I can find out... I'm doing the nationals for the next 4 days and after that I will conduct the experiment to see if the centre of gravity moving forward 'could possibly' pitch the canopy slightly forward. Not to argue a point, but because both scenarios seem feasible to me, and I would like to know. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So you are saying you don't believe there are millions of Truthers? I suppose you also believe we are a very small minority. Think again. Where is the science in that argument Bill, You cannot simply state these things without evidence to back it up. There is plenty of corruption in this world, our nature is that way, denying it and letting it ride is irresponsible. I suppose you have never come across a situation where someone in power has abused their position for personal gain, never? Use you head Bill, you are in a dream world if you think financial gain is and was not a motive for these pre-empted wars. And I have plenty of fun feeding the chickens. There are boards dedicated to it, many of them, I also participate in them also. Some stuff is irrelevant and not worth much at all but most of it, and increasingly these days is well drafted, well thought out and complete. Scientifically, non judgmentally written. You guys have not seen much or any of that, as you think you are going to a whack job website by doing so. You have fallen for the intentional propaganda. The joke is on you, and Truthers are in the millions, there are 10's of millions in the USA alone that will vote for a new investigation. Some more proactive than others, but once again it is obvious that you are kidding yourself and also not being honest with yourself or any of us. Don't worry this will come to rest one day, and for the rest of your life you will have to live with the fact that you find treason, murder and the suffering of millions of people humorous. That is your prerogative. Seeking the truth is mine. So feeding the trolls is O.k. if you do it? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

And that is conclusive of what? It is not republicans or bush that I hold accountable; it is the apathetic population whose spines are dissolving by the minute. If you think corruption does not exist and has no significant effect on society, good luck to ya. I have seen real corruption in all levels of society and it affects us more than we are willing to accept. We are all part of it because we are instinctively selfish. We should all be dubious of any entity that aims to pre-empt war for financial gain rather than reason. The problem is not which people have done what or why, our problem is how we ever let them get away with it. Many of you oppose government control because of this corruption. Without order there would be anarchy, which as cool as it might look on some Emo's t-shirt, would not be a good situation to be in at all. We all need a government of some description, just how corruption is dealt with is inconsistent and it has quite obviously gotten out of hand. You can have your story written for you or you can make it what you want. One will not always be successful and will often face opposition; but that opposition can bring you to a halt or it can strengthen you. I have debated this subject for over 5 years with many of you, and I have looked at and tried to discuss every aspect possible. I can still honestly say that I believe 'well' beyond reasonable doubt that the $20million NIST report is inconclusive, inconsistent, and contradictory. The 9/11 story is either partially or completely manufactured, has been used to Pre-empt wars and also massive government spending to certain private enterprises that are complicit with the corruption. Many millions of people also have the same concerns, they all have the same concerns independently, and yes there are also groups. Probably well over 100 dedicated websites now, and at least 1 that I know of have 10’s of millions of hits in about 5 years, and get 10’s of thousands of hits a day. All these people have been bundled together and are now known as Truthers. Not a bad name. Some of them want to know why there is no clear footage of an aircraft flying into the pentagon, some want to know why they were sent back into Manhattan to work when there was still toxic shit everywhere that is now causing them illness or death, some think the whole thing was performed by the government and some most definitely do not. Some only want to know why their family members died in Iraq in the name of lies. Heck some probably even believe in flying saucers and some might wear a tin foil hats (do people actually do that?). Since we are all grouping us all together and calling us Truthers and those that have nothing to do with each other are being compared, lets discuss the one thing that all of these people including myself, do have in common… …The desire to have an open investigation of the happenings of 9/11, with Subpoena power. That is not such a demanding request; it is the refusal that is demanding. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

A question for anyone that is willing to contribute to a reasonable debate to the contrary of controlled demolition hypothesis. Do you acknowledge as fact that building 7, actually managed to obtain freefall acceleration for ‘an amount of time’ during is collapse, as pointed out in the Latest NIST report published on the 20th of November 2008. If so, do you consider this an anomaly? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Why, because I have not spent time pondering it, I have pondered why there are no stars in the photos, but that for me would be a photography enquiry. Asking such a question however would likely result in the short sharp attack from all the post whores that have nothing better to contribute than trying to make each other laugh at someone else’s expense. It is almost like feeding the chickens, just throw a couple of stones out and they all come running willy nilly instinctively without thought. Talking about an irrelevant subject that happened decades before contributes nothing to the subject at hand. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You know how Obama got that noble prize, the one for hope... That is all he delivered, many words but not so much action. This is why I made the thread 'those pesky fires'. But I bumped this one as it has the most information and links of any I can remember. Obama, is a tricky subject he has not satisfied me as being genuine regardless of the red tape he has to slice through in order to do soemthing. I'm not convinced anyone is too sure on him. The odds seem to be increasing on the suggestion he has no say in what goes on anyway. It seems to me, he is a written story. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Steering away from the subject matter, Science... To pathetic attacks on a vast number of people that have a plethora of viable concerns pertaining to their own personal suffering and loss of family is no laughing matter. Your attempts to belittle millions of other people with opposing thoughts to yours with unrelated comparisons is becoming all too common and encouraging borderline personal attacks is not very professional. I would expect more form a moderator of a forum dedicated to 'heated' discussions with opposing points of view. The term, 'don't feed the trolls' is commonplace throughout the internet; I thought you would have taken heed of that by now. Your one warning "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

...therfore pitching the parachute forward further due to a forward movement in the centre of gravity. This is the parachute equalling out the load. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

If I was in a " i wank myself over my gun and blow my load in dead centre' thread I would have left the conversation or not even entered it. This one (9/11) is a subject I feel strongly about, what many people feel strongly about and many feel reluctant to talk about because of the violent opposition from people like you. you are the one that needs to get over it, and either discuss the topic (not me), or refrain from discussing. You may get a laugh out of mike, amazon or any of you other mates, but you just make yourself look foolish (to everybody elese) by trying to discredit me rather than the subject. I have done this in the past myself also and gained nothing out of doing so. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

What is you interpretation of what they are trying to achieve. Other than ruling the world with (pseudo) american ideals. From their website first line in the about us page, America has shown us how it goes about being a leader. We (those that are not americans) don't like it. The arrogance and ignorance of those that think such movements are reasonable is astounding. It is interesting that Rupert Murdoch is one of the signatories. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

waiting will get you nowhere, let me give you a hint, you won't find it on fox news or in the new york times... If you want to be free, you do your own research. If you still fail to find what you want, you are avoiding the truth. There is a differnece between avoiding and not finding! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

No, just you Hmmm let me see, do you accept the aims and goals of the PNAC as acceptable and reasonable? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I really don't want to fall for your trick and go off on a tangent but I will say as I have said to you earlier. I have no reason to think that people have not landed on the moon. Period. I have all the reason to think that the US government and the corporate media have been lying to us purposefully, about the events of 9/11. The events that took place on that day have been used as an excuse for altering the world’s history and affecting all of our lives in ways we cannot even begin to imagine. Keeping quiet or simply blowing off the serious and well founded accusations is in itself criminal. The majority are lemmings and are too scared to stand up the opposition that has been put in place by well crafted and thought out propaganda. You and all the deniers here have been 'brainwashed' yes i said it, brainwashed into thinking that it was plotted by some Muslims in a cave. You are also brainwashed into thinking all Muslims with a beard and robes are terrorists and you have also been brainwashed into thinking that it is O.k. to go and murder human beings in the name of acquiring natural recourses. The crooks have gone too far, the pnac and the crooks are in damage control mode, your army of deniers are in defensive mode, and (mainstream) truth is just around the corner. The biggest problem will be getting the deniers to accept to themselve that they have been wrong the whole time. The PNAC know they have been lying, NIST know they have been lying. The power will come from you lot letting your morals allow you to accept that you have been duped and/or have been lying to yourselves... Neil Armstrong and co. has nothing to do with it. If you cannot argue your point without changing the subject I suggest you keep your mouth shut/ refrain from posting. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That I understand , but lying flat and extending your upper body forward, while bending your knees will mover the centre of gravity forward (keeping your legs straight 'might' not move the C of G). Even though the pressure is on each riser is essentially the same (we'll assume no control input), the movement in the centre of gravity will achieve forward pitch in itself. This was what I took as Jays point, and one I am inclined to believe. Our ability to change our form and use leverage and our muscles allows us to do something a uniform dead weight could never do. Change our centre of gravity. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix