rhys

All Jumpers wear helmets (soft only for tandem customers) here also, it is the rules in NZ. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I am being honest, I do my job well, and no customer of mine has EVER had an injury to date (touch wood). You do things your way, I'll do them mine. You lot sure have a bee in your bonnet over this. Once again the focus of the conversation has moved from the point to a roasting of me. No wonder there are so many bullshit artists in these forums, this is what happens to honest people. Ego is pretty important in Seppo land, here we try to be humble and honest, egos get mocked. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

What is your home DZ? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Lets youtube audit your DZ, what is your home DZ? Are you willing to tell us? Are you a TM? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Lets hope you are as diligent at telling people what to do at your own DZ; This place look familiar? I dont see any handle check and I see a backfilp on exit... Oooh look a handicam jump AT_YOUR_DZ... ... No blue handle check! no reserve handle touch Fancy that.. Here is another and another , this one has a couple or 3 backflips. Need I go on? Shit with a dropzone as loose as that, using crappy go pro cameras to boot, must not ever service their planes, and be complete money hungry scum with no safety standards..., by your rationale anyway. You should stop jumping there immediately before you all get sued. You should all hand in your ratings as well, knowing about something illegal and not reporting it is a crime in itself. Better dob your mates in the the manufacturers real quick!!!! Are you the S&TA? G0 practice what you preach at your own DZ then come back to us with you bullshit artist super_on_line_good_guy tactics. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

In case you didn't notice, I am not a pilot. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

QuoteSIGMA TANDEM SYSTEM OWNER’S MANUAL SIGMA TANDEM “PIN CHECK” Back of Rig - Top Down 1. Look through window in the yoke and check the Cypres. 2. Open reserve pin cover, check that the yellow breakaway cable is threaded through the Collin’s Lanyard loop inside the yoke. 3. Check the reserve pin seating, RSL connection, and loop condition. Close pin cover. 4. Open the main cover flap and check the: A. Routing of the closing loop, B. Routing of the drogue bridle out of the top of the disk, C. Colored kill line in the drogue bridle set window, D. Locking pin and safety pin seating, and E. Spectra Ripcord routing toward the housings. No twists. 5. Check the drogue bridle routing to the pouch. 6. Check that the drogue is well placed in the pouch. 7. Check that both drogue release handles are in place. 8. Check the general condition of container. Front of Rig – Top Down 1. Check that the riser covers are correctly closed. 2. Check that the 3-Ring releases are assembled correctly. 3. Check that the RSL is hooked up to right riser and routed correctly. 4. Check that the breakaway handle is in place. 5. Check that the reserve ripcord is in its pocket, with slack in the cable. 6. Check the general condition of the harness webbing and hardware. Quote yep apart from opening the reserve flap, I do all of that. Some sigmas do not have a full clear flap so it is not possible to check all these things without opening the flap. Ours do, we also have spectra ripcords and can check them from the reserve handle. I notice that it does not mention touching these things as bill was trying to say earlier. Sometimes I can see the yellow cable going through the lanyard too, but I physically check it by inserting my finger. I have seen many TMs not check the routing of the cable through the lanyard (ever), I also have to tell some of them why they should, I also see many people routing the spinnaker clip for the RSL the incorrect way, (from the front rather than the back) I correct them on this also. Many decide that sky hooks are a waste of time and insist on disconnecting them, and I have been hassled by some for being a pussy for using one. I could care less what people think of me. And that includes you lot. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

actually I do at least a half a dozen of them every jump. I check the Collins Lanyard by opening the riser cover. I check the pin through the window, and I am happy with that procedure. heck I even have PD canopies in there right now but will be swapping them out for Icarus after summer. The 'public forum thing' is why many people try to be super_online_do_gooders. In reality there are many many videos out there on line from many dropzones, they will show that it is not only I that will show the world online that they do not do the bottom/blue handle check in free fall. So it is already out there, I choose to be honest, unlike many here. every single one of our videos are uploaded to the net. So no point in lying. So I guess the conclusion is that hand cam is crap, unsafe and not worth the money. Yet 80% of our customers still buy it for NZ$165 after watching the demo video. But I am just a greedy corporate drogue whore with no morals. but I am an honest one. good day. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I have been through my tandem rating 3 times, NZ, Australia and USA. These procedures were not explained to me, not once. Now you only have the information that is available to you. I have worked at many dropzones with many instructors, and you know what... None of them did what you have explained prior to every jump, this is a 25 jump check procedure as far as I am aware. Would you care to link us all to the correspondence from the manufacturer UPT, pertaining to the procedures you just explained that were not written by you, and that specify that this is mandatory. The brochure says nothing about the clear window being for pin checks in the plane, it say for checking pin (period). The window is the whole flap on our rigs and i can see the rsl lanyard and we have spectra rip cords. The swage cannot be faulty as there is none and I can see the stitching clarly through the window. The larks head on the handle is checked every 25 jumps, and we do not roll around in the dirt. It seems to me, I maybe wrong, but you would not last very long at many of the dz's I worked at, this is the reality, not my doing, maybe wrong, but the reality. And these are some of the busiest dropzones in the world, that the manufacturers work hand over feet to get the contracts for. This reason you work to is all about litigation, and reality is different, here in NZ and many other places we are not subject to the ludicrous litigation policies that you have, that are put in place by and for greedy assholes. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

My parents did not lie to me about such fables, they were straight up. I don't think it is a healthy to tell lies to children. IMHO it simply holds back their itellectual potential and the appreciaton of what their parents provide. Spoiling children is also not healthy, this also does not help their appreciation of what is provided for them. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Define a proper reserve pin check? On the UPT sigma brochure it clearly says; Sigma brochure I know DZ's that can do 500 jumps or more on a system between pack jobs, If you suggest the reserve closing loop should be touched every time it is checked, then that itself is a safety issue. You can keep your greasy mits off my reserve closing loop thank you. Do you touch your cypres too each time you look at it?? Seems you make up 'fibs' to suit your argument. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Tell me; WHY DO YOU THINK UPT MAKE A CLEAR WINDOW ON THE RESERVE FLAP? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I have seen some amazing flyers, get amazing footage backflying with tandems (as well as the other shots), they can even control the fall rate of the tandem by burbling the tandem pair with their foot. This stuf is amazing, it is very very skilled, and (some of) these people may (do) not need wings to get the shot. This is a far cry from telling a newbie (camra guy) that they don't need wings. Experience takes time, and wings are a great tool to help you get experience to the point where you may not need them, body shape and weight pay a vital role in all this also. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You are obviously not so good at comprehention, simply overlooked what i said or actually understand this but are feeding the others. I CAN SEE THE RESERVE HANDLE, I check it. As well as the top snaps, my alti, my spot, the other groups, the freefall drift... If the drouge release is dislodged I will have either; An uneventful freefall if it just bumped off the hard housing. This happens regularly on old sigmas, ours are brand new, but I have seen many people jump like this. or My canopy will deploy and no handle touching will change that. My concern is a horseshoe, but i can bet you nobody checks their handle between exit and drogue deployment, this is the critical time. I will repeat AGAIN so you are quite clear. , if it is dislodged I will disregard the video and replace it. I am not going to argue with you lot, at least I am honest, many of you will talk shit (lies) so you look good online but in reality it is a different story. I tell it how it is, and (beleive me I know) Many on here don't like being told how it is, they would rather live in a fairy land of percieved perfectness. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So are UPT mains and reserves, but they still sell plenty of rigs to companies they KNOW use Icarus mains and precision reserves. heck they even put custom 'daedalus' embroidery on a sigma for a rig that now dons a cross braced tandem main. they have rules, but they are there to cover thier ass. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I touch the handles, many times. I do not touch the reserve or the blue drogue release between exit and opening. But they are touched many times prior to exiting. Before donning the rig, after donning the rig, walking to the plne, once I get in place in the plane, once i gear up and just before I exit. They are in place when I exit, I can SEE the reserve handle and if the drougue release is dislodged... ... I guess I will soon find out. I don't beleive I am sacrificing safety, it is pretty obvious you and the super_on_line_do_gooders think so. So tell me if you dislodge a drouge release, what the fuck do you think will be achieved by touching it? I touch my handles in sequence 6+ times prior to exit. So about 24,000 times I have touched my tandem handles in sequence. I know the sequence. The reserve handle I can see, just like the reserve pin, I can see it. I don't need to touch it. I trust my vision and if you needed to touch something to ensure it is in place, UPT would not put a clear window on the reserve flap. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

why do you think sigmas have a clear window on the reserve pin? You don't have to touch something to check something. the only handle that cannt be checked without comprimising the footage is the blue/bottom drogue release, but we all know what happens if that is dislodged. Doe you expect we check; After exit and prior to drogue deployment? Just because you don't touch something, does not mean you do not know whether it is in place or not. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Agreed. I was deep one day really deep, I was on a jvx 79 2.4, I was one of the only ones on the later groups to make it back. There were grapevines so many opted to land about a mile away in a clear area. i had landed in the grapes before with no worries so decided to go for it. I used my rears and pulled them to a point where I could feel the airflow being disturbed and there was an evident kink in canopy and a bit of a flutter. From there I just let it up a little until it felt like it was flying smooth and locked my elbows in place for a few minutes, I made it to the landing area.... Just, with a flat turn approach. I was working at Lodi at the time, doing a fun jump between work jumps and remember Bill dause saying I had better make the next load when I manifested. LOL that gave me the incentive to try a little harder than the others but that flight taught me alot about the rears on my canopy. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Dang that is a cool plane... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I have seen world class skydivers sink out on camera jumps because they refuse to 'dress for success'. It really depends on what jump, who you are filming etc. etc. For the likes of tandems, you never know how big or small the next customer will be, so it is good the have wings for the skinny 60kg 200cm guy with a light TM, and you always have you tshit for the big fat people. If you get a jacket, you will not regret it. The range they give you is unbeleivable, and they are not just to keep a fall rate with light people, you can really get into it with wings you can pop up faster, you can stop faster. Those that say they are old school are simply ego driven, and don't have a clue. They will be flying like a star fish trying not to sink out (getting crap footage) while you will be flying circles around your subject. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

and in between we have reality, and the reality is that hand cam has proven itself. There has been less incidents with handicam than; Wingsuits Small cameras (go pro etc) High performance parachutes The use of AAD's RSL's ... These continue to be used by people with less than 500 jumps and some are mandatory pieces of equipment. I propose that there be an absolute minimum of 1100 jumps for hand cam use, as there is here, and that is assuming the instructor began his/her tandem rating on their 1000th jump (what I believe should be the minimum) and did only tandems from there to jump 1100. You probably think it is OK to take tandems at 500 jumps like most here will, that is your prerogative. 500 jumps is WAYYYYYYYYYYY too green IMHO, and that may be where the problem lies with this subject. having said that I still see TM's with 1000's of jumps having difficulty getting stable. But the rules are the rules and I respect them, personally I had 2200 jumps when I got my rating. When I see people with 489 jumps talking about getting a tandem rating (OZ, USA...) it makes me feel uneasy. There is no perfect world, but hand cams have surely proven their place as a (relatively) safe and appropriate piece of equipment (depending on who is using them), much like the tandem systems themselves. Humans have proven themselves to be unreliable and unsafe on many occasions.... "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

This is why, This meeting made the rules for the BPA to not allow handcam, it was in 2004. I am not too sure whether it still stands, but once you make a rule, it it difficult to change. I can see your point with the whole; Analogy, but that model does not work for everything. As we see here in this conversation, there are those that strongly oppose hand cam as it effects their income, they will likely vote it out on safety pretenses (if the bandwagon appears) when the true reason for their vote is financial. I'm more of a statistics man myself, I hate to see people hurt but skydiving rules are generally written in blood. Too many rules can be as damaging to the sport as too few. Don't be sorry, you speak intelligently, bring up relevant points and make good conversation to learn from. I like your posts. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Can you show me a photo of your beach 18, they look cool as! Are you doing single tandem loads (when there is video) in those Cessna? You watch, that will change. No way is the best way, there is always room for improvement, whichever way you do it. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

You can start by looking here Nice attempt to avoid the point though, 8 points. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Not out to bait, just clarification and continuity. There has been at least a million hand cam jumps, and you go on about one or 2 incidents incidents of human error to make a point about the safety or lack thereof with hand cam. Yet you are a strong advocate of wing suit jumps which have contributed to a plethora of incidents including deaths by adding an extra element to a skydive. Continuity is my point. We all have different opinions and are entitled to them, I am not against wing suits either, but both wing suits and hand cam add an extra element to a skydive that some are more than capable of and some are not. We cannot focus on those that are not capable to determine the feasibility of any activity, we just need adequate systems in place to make sure these people that are not ready or suitable for such activities are somehow restricted from doing so. It is called balance. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix