rhys

I am inclined to agree with you. With my snowboard stance, the would be some serous harness input going on. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I suggest you take that up with the NZPIA, APF, and any other organisation that allows this progression. I didn't write the rules, I am just pointing them out. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

It seems to me you do not. The reason I was able to do those numbers in that time, was because i was able to jump with a camera, at 100 jumps, then I was able to film tandems at 200 jumps, then I was a commercial skydiver at 250 jumps. and from there I averaged around 1000 jumps a year.. Part of my point is that some guidelines hold back those that are capable, for the sake of those that are not. That is not a debate, it is my opinion. I am no more physically eligible than anyone else at running this progression, I simply was not held back, had the opportunities and gave it my all. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So 50 freefall jumps (absolute minumum). It is interesting that they lowered the number of required jumps from 100 (absolute minimum). I bet some reader here would have their blood boiling over that decision... Just goes to show the varience in attitudes toward the subject. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So the use of cameras, the regulation of such and who should use them does not belong in the photography and video forum? Give me a break. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

It was DSE. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I am not going to debate this again. local rules are what are used by local DZ's. They should be considered first and foremost. Others can be considered. NZ and South africa do not allow tandem ratings to be issued to those with less than 1000 jumps, there is a reason for that also. 500 jumps is far too little for me for tandems, but is commonplace in the USA and other countires. I am used to different rules to you, much the same as you are to me. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Apparently, according to the moderator of the photography and video forum, that place is not the appropriate place to 'discuss' the regulation pertaining to jumping a camera. And I have been banned from that forum for 30 days for doing so. I beleive that action is quite inapropriate but it is the perogative of the concerned moderator, and he has the authority to do so. That is why I am posting here, and not in the camera forum where this information rightly belongs. This subject Is very important in my opinion as the number of cameras around these days is quite astounding and ever increasing, there are varying viewpoints on the subject, and with that there are varying rules in diffrent locations. That very same moderator has a 'sticky' at the top of the page that is supposed to answer basic quetions anyone might have, and this subject is the on the top of the list (go figure). I noticed he used 'ONLY' the USPA guidelines, and my problem with that is that I am not located in the USA, those recomendatios ar quite different to what I was subject to, this is an international website so this information is false for many people that read here. I don't really wish to debate the subject further, I would just like it to be known that the USPA 'recommendation' is not the be all and end all, and is not necessarily applicable to you if you are not located in the USA. A number of organisations regulating skydiving in other countries allow jumpers to use cameras in freefall and under parachute at numbers less than what is 'recommended' by the USPA. Some are the same. This informations is pertinant to those that wish to travel to or from the USA to skydive and wonder what they are allowed to do at that certain place. I looked into a few (english speaking) places and here are a few examples of the rules in a couple of different countries, that allow camera jumping before the 200 jump benchmark of the USPA. I'll start with South Africa, as that country is the origin of this website; New Zealand Has 3 different licencing organisations, each with thier own rules, the jump numbers for jumping camera ranges from 100 jumps to 200 jumps, The best thing to do there is to contact the DZ you wish to jumps at and ask them. So at the end of the day, you will find different rules and guidelines in different places, please read the rules and regulations of your intended location when determining what should and should not be done. Your local dropzone may have thier own guidelines also so the best place to get your infomation is there. Be safe and have fun, Rhys P.S. maybe this should be a sticky, as there is an increasing number of threads on this subject. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I hope my company is worth more than 70k, in fact is is... I estmate it will be worth millions in years to come. regardless of the company; My wife and I earned that amount, we can live on $40k. I don't see how we can not retire easily on that sort of money when we are still young. We don't need a palace. I don't want this thread to get de railed as well because others disagree with my experiences, which are different to theirs. So that is my input for now, My advice to those wishing to pursue a career in skydiving, be dedicated and dont listen to the bullshit you are given by those that you see on a good wicket that wsh to pull the ladder up behind them. If you see them on a good thing, and they say it is too hard or make it difficult for you to get there, then there is a good reason for that. Give it your all, be prepared to travel, and there are plenty of opportunities out there. You can even create your own. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That is right. and I stand corrected. Again My search did not come up with those, but now I remember them. 1 Is nothing (why is that even there?) 2 was a heart attack. and the last was turbulence and a turn, . Still, my point stands. Contrary to what many here believe, there is nothing to say the recommendation of addind a camera at 100 jumps with adequate supervision is less than adequate if the rules or reccomendations allow it. So when anybody that is interested in knowing when they are ready to jump a camera, they should consult their local liciencing organisation rather than listening to those here that think their way is the only way. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

My bad, I apologise for the oversight. Your country had had about 6 fatalities in that time however. I am sticking to my point that this is not a USA, USPA or a NZ thread or website, it is an international website and the information given should be suitable for everyone. People have insinuated that the rules I learned by are inferior and less safe, yet millions of jumps have been performed under these guidelnes without a single fatality. The safety record from NZ is surprisingly good for the amount of jumps that are performed here. Most fatalities are in fact experienced jumpers and could gave been avoided with a little added supervision, not more rules. That is my point. BTW, most of the dutch fatalities were low turns, do you think there is room for improvement in your systems in regards to that? I don't want to move the point away from camera jumps, but that was an interesting observation. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

BUMP, I noticed a couple of newer canopie have made the list and other have been edited to mention they are out of production. It is about time the JVX got a slot don't you think? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

ha ha, good point. Technically you could trade stuff for weed if you kept it in the Netherlands. I'm sure no one would send a gun out of the US. The chances of it getting to the destination would be slim to none. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Answer the question, how many fatalities have occured t USPA dz's this century and haw many have happened in NZ... I can tell you the answer to the NZ question; NIL, nothing, NADA, not one. Heck I'l even answer the USA question 2004 - 23 fatalities 2005 - 27 fatalities 2006 - 21 fatalities 2007 - 20 fatalities 2008 - 32 fatalities 2009 - 19 fatalities 2010 - 20 fatalities so far... Now even if you take into consideration the difference in population, number of DZ's and the number of sport jumpers with low time experience, no matter which way you look at it, we have had NO fatialities in that time and you have had over 200 since the turn of the century. Heck the last time your country did not have a fatility was 1974.A good year that one I was born that year. If they say rules are written in blood, maybe you guys need the rules and we don't. I really do not think that is the case but, the problem does not lie with a jump number, it lies with lack of adequate supervision. Guidelines are nothing, without supervision. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

So you truly beleive 99% of experienced flyers waited until they had 200 jumps before jumping with a camera and 500 jumps before jumping with a tandem... How are the unicorns and fairies in that dreamworld of yours. How many fatalities has there been at DZ's under your organisation to date? We have had one, it was last century, and it was gear failure.... (broken tandem riser). We do well over 100,000 jumps per year. and camera people are introduced to tandems at about 200 jumps. So tell me how many fatalities do you think have occured at dz's under you much safer and more appropriate guidelines? And how many at ours? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

is that the funny romansche (spelling?) language?? LOL Happy B day VB. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

No I was making $80k AUS which is about $75k US. I did around 1100+ jumps per year there. We still had a lot of spare time, and 2 rostered days off per week. We did the evil and corporate handicam that only selfish and self centred greedy dropzones do, while disregarding all safety and disrepecting every customer with a less than par product. [/sarcasm] I also packed reserves. but not mains and no editing. 8 years ago, I did my first jump at the skydiving diploma course in my home town, a year later I was jumping camera, a year after that I was AFF rated, a year after that I was a TM, then I spent 5 years travelling the world and looking for a suitable position that payed well and offered a nice lifestyle. I did that for a while and an opportunity came up. I bought into a new DZ and am curenty building it into a successful company. If that is not a career, tell me what is? I suppose I could go to school for 10 years, then spend the rest of my life slicing people open and smelling their sick and dying insides all day then stitching them back up again? How about grinding (and smelling and breathing) rotten teeth all day? or getting dangerous criminals off the hook by finding loopholes? What is your defintion of a career? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

LOL, how times have changed. Nowdays some people with 200 jumps have only ever dived out of turbines and are too scared to climb out on a Cessna... bring back static line I say... The more we pamper people the less competent they become. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

I was earning AU$80k as well as my wife being a tandem instructor in Aussie before coming back home to NZ to start my own DZ. I know that in Hawaii, Guam, Taupo, Queenstown, Wollongong + many others. you can earn more than 70k per year. So your information is incorrect. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

The uncanny paradox is that I am under the NZSA, which has a rule for a C license for camera, so you actually need 200 jumps to jump camera at my DZ. 'Other' DZ's in NZ allow jumpers to use cameras at 100 jumps. Under the NZPIA and ParaNZ. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

Go back a couple of posts and you will see where I suggested a solution. There is no need to confuse everybody with 'somebody else's rules(recommendations)' Just think about everybody, when you moderate an international forum. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

we have 3 different sets of rules in NZ, there are many countries other than the USA, and many of them read these forums. My point is that your post assumes everybody is using USPA recommendations. You could have instructed them to look up the recommendations pertaining to them by their licensing organisation. That would have been more appropriate. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

yes we agree there, for sure. We still have recommendations for most things, such as elliptical canopies, cameras.... The DZSO or CI are answerable for their decisions. But once again, we do not want to be held back as a whole if there is one wanker, do we? We will always have one wanker, we are human beings. But that wanker should be answerable for his/her actions and there should be systems in place to make sure it is seen that these type do not continue to hold such power. And that is your prerogative. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

There is your problem. Here what the D.Z.S.O.(our equivalent to your S&TA) says, goes. and the DZSO is answerable the the CI/CSO. (chief Instructor/Chief safety officer). With the power to ground someone from jumping and the authority to decide whether or not someone is ready or allowed to partake in a certain activity, this removes the need hold back those with aptitude with rules designed for the odd idiot that think they know better. That scratched record is seriously flawed, if you don't see a benefit to people with under 200 jumps jumping cameras, you don't see a benefit to anyone jumping a camera. People like using cameras to document their skydiving, as soon as they can document their (and their buddies'), then the sooner their progression advances faster by being able to analise what they were doing. Yes you can hire, a camera guy to come and film you but everybody wants to film their jumps themselves. The benefit is being able to film their jumps, and pretty fucking obvious. Quite simple I would have thought? "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

That post is arrogant in the sense that it assumes the reader is in the USA and subject to USA recommendations, and that the poster assumes the USA rules and recommendations are the same for everybody. NZ rules are different, 100 jumps for camera... Each country has its own rules and recommendations. The OP has not set a location. This is not DZ.comUSA it is an international forum, originating in South Africa. The rules there are also different to the USA. The best advice for the OP from my point of view is to wait and see what is happening when the time comes to get equipment, technology is changing rapidly, and whether you get first 1-200 jumps in 6-12 months or3-4 years the products on offer will be different to now. Or the products available now will be much less expensive. Whatever way you look at it, wait until you are ready, then do your research. "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix