ZigZagMarquis

[sarcasm] If I pack my Talon 2 without using Sandy's clamps-galore technique as perscribed in the T2 Manual... am I violating the mfgr's packing instructions? [/sarcasm] This is actually a question I'd really like a (non-sarcastic) answer to. I've Pro-Packed my Raven IIg in my 94 Talon many times without using a single clamp on the reserve parachute and don't feel like I've violated Sandy's packing instructions... furthermore, to add, I've got one save, ME!, on that very system.

[sarcasm] If I pack my Talon 2 without using Sandy's clamps-galore technique as perscribed in the T2 Manual... am I violating the mfgr's packing instructions? [/sarcasm]

Yeah, but a kill is a kill.

On the topic of water jumps... A buddy of mine still tells the story from "back in the day" when y'all had to do a no-shit water jump to get your D-License, they used to jump gutt-gear into the big water hazard (lake) at the California City golf course. Well, my buddy can't swim, but he really wanted his D-License, so he did it anyway. His plan was to land as close to the boat as possible. When he tells the story, he goes on to say he almost drown after landing in the water until he realized that everyone on shore and in the boat was yelling, "DAVE! JUST STAND UP!!"... which he finally did... then realizing that the water hazard was only slightly more then waist deep.

I have a Cypres that drops dead in Oct 08. Fact of fiction, I've heard said that a Cypres cutter will cut a piece of 3/32 stainless steel aircraft control cable (pretty much the same stuff your reserve rip cord is made of). Like I said, I wonder (doubt) whether or not that claim is true, but I've been mulling over "finding out" wiht my Cypres that's dead here in a bit over a year.

Like the instructor said to me and the group of jumpers I was in when we went through water training, "If y'all don't take this seriously and in some point in the future I hear you landed in water and drown to death, I'm going to say GOOD! So listen up!!"

Then they're usually the type that's in the front of the plane with an AFF or Tandem student wankin' that the other 16 - 18 of us aren't jammed into the back 1/3 of the Otter so they can have the front 2/3'rds to gear check / hook-up their student... play frisbe... etc... ... but that they say, is a different story...

We'll probably be able to feel (maybe see) the lack of the steel springs in the side flaps. Obviously anything with the steel still in it hasn't been serviced. Yes, pretty much figured that. I've been further wondering though if when things like this come around, if some sort of mod # or dash # change to the part number on the rig / harness' data lable whouldn't be better?

And I'm in violent agreement with that. Its just that I've still happened across a DZ here or there that the X-hundred jump wonders still insist on FF out first because of their faulty logic and I'm equally tired of listening to their arguments. I'll give them enough time if exiting after them as to be no factor.

Wouldn't that be a 100th & 101st save?

I guess a diaper wouldn't be considered at tool?

Well, I'm not so sure, yet, that its back to "less is more" is what should be done, but we were debating it at the DZ this past weekend whether or not gear "got as good as it needed to get" in the late late 80s / early 90s... say circa 1989 - 1993. Since then some of the "styling" or "new for 199x" or "new for 200x" "improvements" have come with some baggage it seems?

Try adding to your usual separation time, 4 seconds plus 2 seconds for every 10 kts of upperwinds. So if you would leave 8 seconds following a belly flier, and the uppers are at 30 kts, when a belly follows the freeflier he would leave 8 + 4 + ( 3 * 2) = 18 seconds. As you can see, you should be leaving more than a few seconds. Pardon me, but that's what I meant... if I have to exit, doing RW, following a group of Freefliers at a DZ that insists on FF groups out first. While I don't carry my slide rule, protractor, GPS and scientific calculator with me on every jump run, I have done this a few times. You're point about, if RW has to exit after FF, that a "few more seconds" isn't 2 or 3, but "more" is correct though. Even more reason for RW, large to small groups, then FF, large to small groups, is best, IMO.

Tom, Thanks. At this point, I wouldn't want to take up too much of your time, so, I'll try to shoot you an email at the factory, but what I'd be interested in seeing as a side-by-side photo of your "old" spring/reserve PC with the "new" one next to it. Also, any changes to how the new reserve PC will be closed? Also, just currious, but how goes it so far with Strong turning around rigs and getting them back out and in a "up" (jump-able) config? Also, also, this question came up and if its answered up thread or in the SB, sorry for the redundant question, but the question came up amongst us riggers at my home DZ this past weekend, "How to we know a Quasar is in compliance and can be jumped post mod?"... yes, other then the note on the packing data care, is there any other way for us to tell?

I've heard rumors that Sun Path is going to a curved reserve pin... I don't know if that's in conjunction with a skyhook on their rigs or not... I've also heard that on their rigs built with out a skyhook (i.e. you order a rig from sunpath, but opt out of the skyhook option) they're goint to go to a RSL set-up like RWS / UPT, where the reserve pin is on the end of the RSL and the reserve handle/cable is just a pin puller.

Not to break the thread... but, I've known a person who packed his frape hat into his main and another who packed his wallet into his main... both jumped them and "found", then "lost" again their missing item on opening... ... back on topic, besides the fatal incident with the clamp left on a reserve I know of... I also know someone that found a packing weight in his reserve when opening it for a reserve repack, left there from the last repack... and another person that "back in the day" before everyone had a guchi molar starp, this person opened their reserve for a repack and found a piece of 550 wrapped around the reserve (it was used in lieu of a molar strap) and left there. ... when a buddy and I were going through rigger training, my buddy opened a pilot rig and found a "clamp" in that pack-job too. This wasn't one of those like pictured above, it was one of those "bag clips" you use to close up a half finished bag of potato chips, but it was in the pack job none the less... of course, being a pilot rig, it was the first time this rig had been opend in years. COUNT YOUR TOOLS!

I know of a fatal incident that resulted from basically the same thing... a clamp left in a reserve... freebag came off the reserve, but the reserve didn't inflate.

Terry, I do think it was a somewhat "brave" comment to make, but didn't want to make it seem to you, Strong or anyone else that it was directed as a gig towards Strong. For what its worth, Strong is one of the mfgr's I've always been impressed with... some others, not so much, but I won't go there here. I do think its a "brave" comment from the standpoint that there have been several "evolutions" in gear design the past 10 years or so that have (are) proving to be, lets say, "problematical." I'll be fair and caviate that with I say this as a user / senior rigger / outside observer & not a mfgr / designer. Generally speaking, I refer to this as "over engineering"... highly contoured rigs, stiff rigs that "look good", very small rigs, oversewn corners, secondary riser covers, Magnetic riser covers, flinger reserve flaps, Skyhooks, defacto RSLs, etc etc, all in and of themselves not bad things... buuuuut maybe, just maybe, causing new or exasherbating existing issues or potential issues due to combinations of circumstances that come up on products when they hit the field that don't come up in testing because all the possible combinatins of circumstnaces / how users will actully use things are too many to really test end-to-end. Seems to me, these "advances" from gear mfgr's have come out every few years to a certain extent being "pushed" on the skydiving population. I wonder if this, and other issues, will serve as a sign to some of the mfgr's that a "pause" may be in order to look harder and longer and take more time mulling over and testing things before the next "new improvement" goes out the door?

Yeah, one of those little tandem passengers (i.e. 105lb hot coed working her way through college working at Hooters) that almost make you want to be a Tandem master... ... until the 230lb 6'+ male rugby player shows up wanting to do a Tandem... Beer!!!??! Who said Beer??? Don't make me start drinkin'!!

I've experienced both too. Most places its pretty much like: RW groups, big to small, out first. FF groups, big to small, out next. Students Tandems Trackers Wingsuits Although I agree with the reasons why its best to be that way, I've been to DZs that put the FF groups out first and then the RW groups. I usually just shake my head and on the inside say "whatever" and then when exiting after the FF groups, just take a few extra seconds seperation . Anyway, look at it this way, if you go with the RW first and then FF second rule... y'all Freefliers get to sit more toward the front of the plane which is warmer in winter!

Very good point / good idea John! You're right though, it may not pencil out economically and it may not work out for the "traffic" (airplane traffic, not canopy traffic) reasons (busy weekend, lots of Otter & Skyvan loads going to altitude vs. a C182 dumping low below them) that BBurke outlined above... but if it could work out, that would be an interesting solution. Plus the whining from the "cool crowd" that now has to get on a Cessna would be entertaining...

Like folks up thread have said... its tough to say / depends on a lot of things. Generally, I'd agree with BH that said at chopped main comes down about as fast as a canopy in deep brakes, but that too depends on what kind of canopy it is you're in deep brakes under... Anyway, I've chased down many a person's cut-away main and freebag and two of my own. Chopped mains can do some really weird shit as they're falling. Freebags / pilot chutes are more predictable, but I've seen them come out of the sky like a rock if once the reserve is out of the bag, the bag and bridle tangle up with the pilot chute and choke it... conversly, I've seen freebags / reserve pilot chutes go nearly miles on a windy day if the reserve pilot chute stays inflated. If I'm chasing someones trash down and I see both the chopped main and freebag / reserve PC, I tend to try to land closer to the freebag / reserve PC and keep an eye on where the chopped main is going to land relative to where the freebag/PC go... all things being equal, good landing area, etc... since the freebag/PC is the smaller of the two and tend to "hide" better under bushes and such after landing...

Seriously, have you checked eBay or the local pawn shops? Do you know the serial numbers of the missing gear? If yes, you may want to circulate them around on the "chance" that the rig shows up and someone takes the time to check the serial numbers. Another thing, I've known two folks that had gear stolen in a situation where it obviously wasn't a skydiver, someone who knew about skydiving equipment and/or someone looking to swipe skydiving stuff... it was just someone who saw a box or big bag in a car or what not and snagged it... when they realized what they had (or didn't realize what they had) they just dumped it in a dumpster close by. Two of the folks I know that had gear stolen in that manner found their stuff in a dumpster within a few blocks, others didn't. May be too late at this point, but may be worth a look in the dumpsters around your neighborhood. I too had a rig stolen from the DZ years and years back. I never did get my stuff back. Which means, I own 3 rigs, I just don't know where one of them is. Anyway, good luck.

Dunno tdog... while I'm not "scared" of swoopers or "scared off by swoopers" per-say, in the past, when going to big DZs (Perris, Elsinore, Eloy) with more rather then less high performance canopy pilots, my tendancy has been to just land away from them rather then in the same landing area since I was uncomfortable flying what some would call a conservative or straight in apporach / pattern when they were entering the pattern / landing area "vertically" by executing a 180 or 270 onto final so they could "swoop"; keeps me happy, keeps others happy and we're all drinkin' beers together at the end of the day.

tdog, You make an interesting comment there. I haven't heard it in a long time, so maybe its time it comes back, but it used to be where I jump, if you're experienced and setting up to land at the student area for what ever reason AND there was also a student (or students) under canopy at the same time, you'd get "a talking to" if you didn't give the students a VERY wide berth, because "you should know better." So, if anyone going to "landing plan B" more often then not because of students in the pattern, I'd humbly submit that y'all ought to re-think "plan A" to just keep yourself well away from them under canopy for both your sakes.