ZigZagMarquis

So... are you gonna build a pea pit? Let us know how much it cost and how much pea gravel it took for the sized pit y'all build... if you do decide to go ahead with the project. I do think the hardest part will be getting a bunch of drunk skydivers to do (good) cheap labor.

... and don't forget the bottle of beverage for the rigger that packed the reserve (traditionally a liquor of his or her choice)... premature deployment not withstanding, they saved his life... so, rave, thats 2 cases of beer to the DZ fridge + a fifth of booze to the loft.

Must be body position.

Like some have said, it can depend on what you're looking for in a canopy. However, I'd go with the Sabre2. IMO, PD canopies have always had one great quality across all their brands and each brand's flight charcteristic... they all "Land"... which, ultimately is what you want a parachute for, to land you safely so you can jump again and drink beer at the end of the day. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Others have / will be along with other advise.

Mind if I steal that? I'll give you the credit. You can steal it, but I can't take credit for it. I'd venture to guess it dates back to some really old engineer... probably by the name of da Vinci,

And seeing as how its probably going to be a bunch of drunk skydivers digging that hole... just try to get them to dig a perfect half sphere in the ground. Heck, if you told them to mark out a circle on the ground 7 meters in radius and dig it out to 1.5 feet in depth, I doubt they'd get that right!

Yeah, but I see you prefaced it as a WAG. Typical engineer. I pulled out my old Means and actually looked it up. Have to admit though, you were pretty close. Well, if I would have gotten out my converstion tables and scientific calculator, it would have been a SWAG, rather then a WAG. ... buuut, seeing as how pea gravel can range form 1.2 to 1.5 (guess) tons per cubic yard and the guys at the rock quarry are going to sell it to you by the ton rather then volume... going overboard on this is a great example of, "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk and cut it with an ax." Same thing, different words, I learned a long time ago things to do with this skydiving "stuff" ain't rocket science!

Woo-Whooo! That B.S. in Aerospace Engineering was worth it! Either intentionally or unintentionally, John used as typical tactic used by college profs to trip up students. He mixed units... i.e. "...a pit 7 meters in radius..." and "...1.5 feet deep...". When working the maths, one has to either convert meters to feet for the radius measurement OR convert the depth mesaurement from feet to meters. I chose to work in English units, thus, converted meters to feet... ergo... 7 meters is about 23 feet. I then worked the problem to come up with a cubic feet answer and converted that to cubic yards by dividing that answer by 27. I did a quick search on the internet to try to figure out what pea gravel weighed per cubic yard since I figured if one showed up at a rock quary, the folk working there would want to know how many tons of product you want vice a volume. QED Anyway... The next mistake some made is mistaking radius for diameter. Either because they mistakenly recalled the formula for the AREA of a circle as what is really the formula for the CIRCUMFRANCE of a circle... and/or... when John posed his question, he really meant to say a pea pit 7 meters in DIAMETER rahter then RADIUS. Thus the "R" in the calculation would have been 3.5 meters or about 11 feet vice 23. I did my maths off the top of my head without looking up the exact converstions and rounding up a lot... to account for all the pea gravel thats going to start finding its way out of the pea pit in peoples sneakers, canopies and pilot chutes quickly after its installed, mind you. Heck, we send probes to Mars (sometimes successfully) using Pi only to 2 decimal points.

So they've told you the brake-toggle setting... how does your canopy compare to that? Assuming this mesurement is correct per what they say, have you then gone back to them and said, "Okay, I've got the correct brake-toggle setting, but my steering lines are still too long... " ... blah blah, as per your description above. What do they (have they said) to that? For what its worth... buy PD... they have much better customer service... but that's a different topic.

If my maths is right... and my WAG on how much it will cost (pea gravel + sales tax + delivery (unless you're willing to make lots of trips to the quarry in the DZ pick-up))... my WAG is you're looking at $2000 to $5000 bucks. Do you really want a regultion sized (7 meters (apx 23 ft) RADIUS by 1.5 feet deep) pea pit that badly??

That's easy! That would be the volume of a cylinder; which is the area of the base times the height. I try not to do math in public, but if I get this right... you're looking about about 93 cubic yards of pea gravel... and if pea gravel runs about 1.3 tons per cubic yard... you're looking at about 121 tons of pea gravel...

What type of canopy and what mfgr are we talking about here? Sounds like you've already been in contact with them. Good. Why is it, specifically, you think the steering lines need to be lengthened? For example... generally speaking... when in full flight (toggles un-stowed), there should be a slight amount of slack (bow in the steering lines) when you're looking up at them / your canopy. Yes, there could be other factors, but if that's where you're at now, why do you think they need lengthening?? Try getting in contact with them again. Tell them what you think the problem is and why it is you think your lower control lines need lengthening and ask them what they think / should be done. Try asking them the same question, but in different words, "I have this canopy such and such. The length from the cat's eye on steering lines to where the toggles are tied off is "X" inches (centimeters), what should it be?"

I'd take it back to your local rigger immedieatly and talk to them about better inspecting the reserve (to make sure there's no "mold / mildew" damage) and also have the rig disassembled to have the container washed.

That almost sounds like a "it happened to me" story.... It didn't happen to me... but close...

Well, it doesn't hurt like a helmet glued to your head or anything like that...

I've seen you drink beer... I doubt whom ever paid y'all in Tri-tip and beer will be offering free beer in the future as demo jump payment.

Racer folk are to skydiving what old British sports car buffs are to motorheads... and you'll never win a differing argument with either group.

So YOU'RE the one to blame for that neck-breaker tourture device!!

Yes, I tie the knot as per the manual, but was explaining it badly... Ooooohh! That's a good idea / technique... thanks!

Okay, here's a weird one for all my brother and sister riggers out there in the verse. I've experienced this a couple of times, but only when packing MY Javelin... not anyone else's Jav, just MINE. When doing an I&R on the reserve in my Jav, I make a new Cypres closing loop (actually I do so each and every repack cycle on all reserve pack-jobs I do). I make the closing loop (finger trap), tie it off with a figure-8 and then a regular overhand knot afert that, route it through the Cypres washer... blah blah... all as per the instructions. Before putting it in the rig, I "pre-stress" it as best I can, holding the washer between two fingers in my fist in one hand and pulling on a screwdriver passed through the loop on the other to tighten / set the knots as much as possible... the goal being the "finished" length to be slightly less then the desired reserve closing loop length. Install the new loop, goop it and off with the rest of the reserve pack-job. I get to the point where I've got the reserve bagged, lines stowed, canopy within freebag in the reserve pack-tray, reserve risers routed, 1st and 2nd flaps closed... etc. etc... and when compressing the pilot chute or more likely when closing the 3rd flap / bottom flap on top of the pilot chute, the knots in the Cypres loop / reserve closing loop "slip" and now the reserve loop is now like a 3/4" too long and I have to go back and shorten it, make a new one, or tie another knot in it above the initial two. Its really infuriating! OBTW, I do not use a positive tension device... just one of those Sandy Reed / R.I. strap w/ an old B12 hook sans gate specials. AND like I said, this has happend a coupld of times, but only on MY RIG. Never on any other rig I've packed a reserve on INCLUDING a buddy of my that has the same model Jav (J3K) and Reserve (PD160R)... although I can't believe the reserve type has anything to do with it. Okay, I don't have 1000s and 1000s of reserve I&Rs like some of y'all out there, but I do have about 100 reserve I&Rs... w/ 3 saves.

Any idea how he came up with the line trim for the canopy he made? Or is that still "in work?" The reason I ask is as far as a I can tell, line trim is a bit of a "black art" or at least, "not standard" from one canopy mfgr to the next.

Ron, Welcome aboard. You mentioned that a lot of folks opinions have to do with brand loyalty and you're pretty much spot on there. For you, it may come down to which one y'all like they styling the most (i.e. the one that you think looks the coolest when you start picking colors) and delivery time because the Jav, Mirage, Infinity are all good rigs. I hate to bring politics into it, but IMO, Sunpath (mfgr of the Javelin) sent a big "F.U." to their customers and riggers out in the verse here recently over the way they handled the whole RSL issue on their rigs. It pains me somewhat to say that since I jump a Javelin, like it very much, but, also IMO, Sunpath, "Great Product, but Sometimes Crappy Customer Relations", because of this and other things I've experienced with them. I haven't jumped an Infinity and only have jumped a Mirage once or twice, but I have done reserve repacks on several Infinities and a Mirage once or twice; again, both good rigs. Seems to me sometimes some of the mfgr's have trouble building a harness / container for small folk... i.e. small girls. Most all mfgr's will stand behind their stuff and make it right if you're not happy with it right out of the box, but from what I've seen of Infinity, they tend to get it right more often the first time. Which brings me to another question... Y'all said you'd be interested in a rig that fits a 150 come when you have around 150 jumps. What will your predicted wing loading be on a 150?? My 2 cents, others will differ, so take it for what its worth, just one man's opinion... but I'm not much for going much over 1:1 on a reserve, even on the newer designs, definitely NOT on the older designs and I don't see much reason to push it much past the 1.2:1 range on a main for someone with 150 jumps, even with ZP, new canopy designs, etc. withstanding. Buuuut, that as they say, is all a different story! Happy rig shopping!! Let us know what y'all get.

Definitly Danica!

http://www.tonysuits.com/

ah... DOH! missed that tid-bit...