ZigZagMarquis

If people were actuall voting realisticly, there would be a lot more votes for: "I jump whatever my packer does for me" Either that, or the yuppie skydiver crowd is still sipping their capachino's or double lattee this that and what nots and haven't discovered this thread yet.

Today's trick for aspiring swoopers is to put a white cup over dog poop to give the swooper something to kick during their surf. Do you set the cup on fire so they're tempted to stomp it?

Well, okay, but I'm not so quick to dismiss such things. Sure, I've known and know numerous skydivers that own a rig and come out and do a handful of jumps a year. They're interest in it is to jump from an airplane, bore a hole in the sky and open a parachute and land and the bottom end a few dozen times a year. Its certainly correct to say they're interest is more "recreational" then say someone who does several hundred jumps a year and their jones is to always trying to better their RW, FF and/or canopy piloting skills. However, I do cringe when I hear someone refer to skydiving as a "recreational activity". Its the same cringe I feel when I hear someone use the words "safe" and "skydiving" in the same sentance, but that's a different topic. Anyway, "Recreational Activity" makes me think of bowling or golf when I hear that phrase. Sure, there is a very competative element to both of those, but whether your a family at the local put-put course or Tiger Woods on the PGA tour, you don't friggin' die, wind-up in a wheel chair or with metal parts in your long bones at the end of the day if things go badly with either of those "recreational activities." Oh, of course, very very true. If students don't see a path forward "that skydiving is something fun that they can do" then they'll gravatate away towards other things. But I have a bigger problem things like Skydive-U, 25 Jump Student Programs to get your "A" and Sky-Ride all pushed, partly, under the guise of "retaining students" and "attracting people to the sport" that really appear (to me) to be a way for some to bleed more $$$ from the "student" populace by those that want to be professional DZ-bum's AND eat steak as a bigger problem with things in the sport today... but... that... like they say... is a different story.

Bytch... I didn't want to mince words the first time around, but you again used the phrase "recreational activity" with respect to skydiving. I realize that it is true that a lot of folks view skydiving as a "recreational activity"; especially when it comes to going out to the local DZ and doing a Tandem. I also realize that it is this change towards viewing skydiving as a "recreational activity" that has changed things to do with skydiving that causes old timers like Sparky to crinkle their noses up and I can agree with that to a certain extent. However, at the same time, I too raise an eyebrow when I hear skydiving refered to as a "recreational activity". It is not. It is a sport... a physical activity that can result in serious injury or de... blah, blah, blah, etc, etc...

Dactyls are definitly before my time, but I too have heard of them being used as a reserve. I guess I never gave it much thought. I must have heard it though from Philly or Celaya or Hank or the likes when drinking beers at Cal City. I too remember someone bringing up the fact that Perris used to use Dactyls as student canopies when several years back folks were getting all worked up over some DZs starting to put students out on big ZP canopies.

Very true on the last part there.

Okay Sparky, what neighborhood kid was playing his music too load at 2a.m. and you had to go out and chase them off your lawn to launch yet another "the degredation of America's youth is going to kill skydiving" thread?

Does CrossKeys put out a news letter? Maybe we should submit this for a re-print... I don't care. OBTW... BEER!!!!

Please vote! We need to determine the REAL identity of this Nomad thingy...

no, No, NO! That is 8 cases of beer. Lets' review... 1) "FIRST cutaway" One case of beer (to the DZ fridge) for your first cutaway & a bottle of liquor (or other beverage of his or her choice) to the rigger that saved your ass. 2) FIRST ride on a Fury 220 (reserve canopy) 3) FIRST jump out of a C-47 (aka DC-3) 4) FIRST jump out of a CH-47 Chinook 5) FIRST jump over Campbell Army Airfield as a DZ 6) FIRST open field DEMO jump Five more cases of beer to the DZ fridge for all those admitted "firsts". Wait now... you've accumulated a back-log of 6 cases of beer. Which now brings into play the "penalty clause" of beer rules; "For every 3 cases of beer owed but not yet paid, a penalty case shall be added." So, since you owe a back-log of 6 cases of beer for firsts... that would be 2 penalty cases also owed. You owe 8 cases of beer!

Is this what you were looking for...

Hey! If they're gonig to start making freeflying part of the student program then "introduction to 3D RW block transitions" better be in there too.

If I could have gotten my mouth to work on my 2nd jump, I wouldn't have went. By the time I got to the door, I just wanted out, because I knew I'd be okay after that... under canopy. Otherwise... see encl

Sure. Buy a clock movement (search the internet, there's lots of places that sell them) and use the face from an old altimeter. With a bit if injinuity, you could probably use the case too ... or just buy one like some up thread have suggested... I've made clocks out of several old kicker plates. The newbs have no idea what a kicker plate is... I even have one with a reverse movement, freaks people out.

SOS... good or bad... and the Great RSL Debate withstanding... this is why if you're going to use an SOS an RSL should still be in place. I've seen it twice happen where in an emergency the student pulled the SOS handle just far enough to release the main and it was the RSL that fired the reserve and not the student that pulled the SOS handle far enough / stripped the cables to pull the reserve pin themselves... as evident... once by Video and the other on post reserve landing inspection, the obvious "RSL kink" in the reserve rip cord that reportedly wasn't there before the jump. The should AFF students be trained on an "SOS system or a Two Handle System" debate has raged for years. I recall a ride to altitude once where I was considering pitching two jumpmasters out of the plane OR getting out myself on the way up to get some piece and quiet as they shouted at each other over which system was better. I've never personally seen a Dual Action system, other then pictures (where effectively both the "cutaway" and "reserve" handle are both an SOS), but can agree with the "too many moving parts" comment. Myself, I was trained on student gear with an SOS; R.I. Telisis rigs, and later was trained to transition to a dual handle system. I never had a cut-away and reserve ride on the student gear I jumped with an SOS, but have had 3 thus far (knock wood) on dual handled systems rigs. My 2 cents, seeing as how even the vast majority of even AFF students never do more then a handful of jumps, if even ever more then one, the "simplicity" of an SOS seems more attractive from a training and safety factor. Something goes wrong, look at this one handle, grasp it, pull it to full arm extension, strip the cables, arch... and not the additional complexities of two handles, proper pull sequence of the two handles, one hand on each handle or two hands per handle, etc., etc. Yes, the downside for those few students that do progress and become jumpers, they need to be retrained towards the end of student status to a two handle system. When I went through that "gear transition" training from an SOS to a two handle system, not only was the instructor very thorough about going over everything with me, he also impressed on my that it was MY responsibility to practice my (then) new emergency procedures on a two handle system so it would become muscle memory.

Where's the option for "The Door"?

Yeah, no shit... if you want to build a pea pit that big, its going to run you about that much. Now think about what it would cost to put in a big swoop pond, keep it full of water... and stocked with fish... Throw on top of that Aircraft operation & maintenance costs; Student & Tandem gear upkeep, maintenance, replacement; upkeep and improvement of DZ facilities and not to mention repair and replacement of DZ "stuff" when drunk skydivers break it (i.e. tossing a couch in the bonfire some night... tossing a cement picnic table in the pool... breaking a window or door... or shooting holes in the DZ trash cans one night with a .45... all of which I've seen done) ... you'll begin to understand why some DZOs get kinda "bitchy" when skydivers say to them, "You're making lots of money... ya know what you ought to do... "

Az... we need to dig up some old video (or film converted to video) of folks doing competition accuracy -- downwind approach & hook turning it into the peas under a round. Watch a couple of those landings and you'll understand why 9" of peas wouldn't be quite enough. Anyway, its all moot because these days no one does competition accuracy using a round anymore and its all done on a tuffet with an electronic scoring pad, what 2.5cm across, in the center to register a dead center.

The only line-trim measurements I've messed with have been PD canopies, but I've heard that PD measures their line trim different then the rest of the industry... and I've heard of riggers getting themselves in trouble measureing line trim ala-PD on non-PD canopies???

A lot of folks don't know this, but it was Nazi Germany that came up with the idea of running a torch lit on Mt. Olympus to the games to light the Olympic flame at the 1936 Olympics held in Berlin. This tradition continues to the games today... not that ANYTHING good should be construed about the Nazi's because of this.

Dunno... why don't you go ask that bunch of jumpers over there trying to screw in that there light bulb...

How about you post the specs too?

Yeah, but... didn't some of that have to do with at one point "they" changed the line trim on the Triathlon that not only changed the trim settings, but also changed the attach points on some of the line groups... AND... they ran into problems where some riggers in the field when doing a reline on a Triathlon were just taking the old line-set off and putting the new (with new trim) line-set on AND NOT changing the attach points where they were also supposed to? The result being a re-lined Triathlon the flew horribly?? Or is all that just urban legend??? Yeah, yeah, I know, those really to blame were those doing re-lines and not reading all the instructions, service bullitins, etc. they should be up on... but I can see where the old company would be kinda ouchy about it.

Yes, like Strato says, you should put on your helmet and get your skydiving buddies to help you out by bashing you in the head to make sure your new Z1 works. A couple of suggestions: 1) Lay down on a creeper and have your buddies spin you around head-first into a pole or something. This will simulate getting kicked in the head while performing a RW block transition during freefall and getting kicked in the head by a person in the opposite piece. 2) Stand-up and have your buddies bash you over your helmeted head with kendo-sticks. This will simulate getting your head bashed into the door jam during a mass exit when the person behind you cuts the corner and runs you into the airplane on the way out.