ZigZagMarquis

Can Jan's program show what happens when the formation funnels?

Geeze, what ever happend to books? Did the books of (RW) formations Falling Together and Blocking Together, a book of all randoms and a book of all blocks, respectively, go out of print?

I still have my old 'PARAdactal'..and these NooBs think Z-po is hard to pack! I KNEW that's how the PARAdactal got its name! When I started, there was a guy that would come out to Cal City once in awhile and jump a double keel Dactal. Unfortunately, I didn't know enough at the time to watch and appreciate what he was doing when packing it.

Quite honestly, so I can lock threads that turn into pissing contests. You don't like chicks? Edit to add: Not that there's anything wrong with that..... Yeah, chicks rock, but do you think I'd be spending so much time on DZ.com if I had the chicks drippin' off of me... Anyway, the ability to stop sillyness is my fuel for my desire. Don't worry, I'd only use my super powers for good. ... the scores of adoring hot chicks that would beat a path to my door because I was a moderator would just be a fringe benifit.

Okay, maybe its Skymama's Xena, Warrior Princess outfit and sword that intimidates folks. Awh, crap, I think I just hi-jacked my own thread. DOH!

And what about me? I just found out last week that my greenie powers make me intimidating. After 4 years of doing this, now you guys tell me! Greenie? Did you mean genie??? Maybe its the I dream of Genie outfit you wear to the DZ that intimidates folks??

Quite honestly, so I can lock threads that turn into pissing contests. You don't like chicks? Edit to add: Not that there's anything wrong with that..... Yeah, chicks rock, but do you think I'd be spending so much time on DZ.com if I had the chicks drippin' off of me...

Et All... If you pay a packer, you take your chances. Now go write that 100 times on the black board! ...................... Anyway, Tonto... just think, under the old USPA rules, you could now apply for your RESERVE, A-LICENSE!

Quite honestly, so I can lock threads that turn into pissing contests.

if you can tie an ass pubic hair using your tounge only, you can apply. ummm... NO!!!

*pssst* Remember the beer... Yuengling if you can score it... To: ZigZagMarquis (aka Benny... aka Antoinette's future husband... aka Asshole) c/o Skydive California City 5999 Curtis Place California City, CA

Well, I DO bathe daily, otherwise, I'm 3/4'ths of the way there...

How are your oral skills?? Depends on which GAL is asking...

Rigger here... Do you have the manual for the rig? If not, go to Sunpath's web-site, surf around until you find it and then download it or open there. www.sunpath.com Read the manual! ... the part on the reserve packing instructions and/or rigger's info. That should answer a lot of your questions. Basically, you're going to do a lot of what you see there in reverse. Read all of what you're interested in BEFORE working on your rig. Here's some motherhood from me. Please read all of it BEFORE proceeding. But basically what you're going to do is pull that silver handle... make sure you're not pointing the business end of the reserve cap towards your cat, expensive lamp, girl friend's face, 100 gal saltwater fish tank... you get the picture. After you've launched the reserve pilot chute, place the rig on the floor, pack tray up, carefully open the flaps and lift the reserve, still in its free-bag, out. You'll see most of the Cypress in the bottom of the packtray. Carefully remove the Cypress from its pocket. Take care NOT TO tug on or otherwise stress ANY of the cables. There will be two cables running up a sleeve on the right hand side of the pack tray; one skinny, one fatter. The skinny-er one will go about halfway up the sleeve and come out in the middle of the pack tray and go to the cutter; the reserve loop is (or should be) through the cutter. The cutter will be held in place with a bit of elastic. Carefully take the reserve loop out of the cutter and push the cutter back through the elastic that holds it. Continue to push the cutter back down the sleeve its wire is in back down towards the Cypress box at the bottom of the pack tray; persuade it down the sleeve by pushing on the cutter and NOT by tugging on its cable until you get it free. Now to the other, fatter, wire. This goes to the Cypress control head, where you turn it on and off. The control head will be in that clear pocket at the top of the rig, on the back-pad right behind where your neck would be with the rig on, I'm sure you're familiar. Same thing. Gently pull the control head from the pocket it is in. Again, DO NOT apply any significant force on the cable. If you have to pull hard on the cable, something's wrong, STOP, and look see what (if) the control head is hung-up. You may have to massage it around to get it out of its pocket easily. Same thing as the cutter, then gently coax the control head down that black sleeve towards the bottom of the rig more my pushing on the control head and less by tugging on its cable until is free. At no point should you have to disconnect the cutter! Once you get the Cypress out, presuming it was in working order to begin with, you should still be able to turn it on and off. You may want to do this just to double check that its still good to go. Now for the reserve. Here's where it might be harder for you or not, depending on whether the reserve is attached to the reserve risers with Reserve Slinks or with Fast Links (Metal French Links). If its French Links, that pretty intuitive, a Crescent wrench or box wrench of the right size and a screwdriver to slide through the French Link so you have some leverage and all you do is loosen the barrel until you can slide them off the reserve risers. If its Reserve Slinks, I'm sorry, but explaining that in words is tough (at least for me), but hopefully you can find a picture or figure it out; either way, it will NOT involve cutting in any way, so if you get stuck, don't go for a pair of scissors! You'll have to get the toggles off of the steering lines to get the steering lines out of the guide rings. Look in the rig's manual where it shows how to attach the reserve toggles. Then look at the toggles on your rig, unstow the toggles and do things in reverse to get the toggles off of the steering lines. Now, for getting the reserve out of the freebag. Mind this, be VERY CAREFUL when taking the reserve lines out of the pouch they're stowed in. If you snag the reserve lines on the hook side of the Velcro that holds this pouch closed, you can damage the lines badly enough that the MIGHT need to be replaced. So, LOOK first to see what I'm talking about and then SLOWLY pull the lines from the pouch being careful not to damage them. Riggers would use what's called a Velcro protector to help, but you probably don't have one... and the lines come out of there without a Velcro protector during a reserve deployment anyway, so its not something to be really scared of, just be careful, look first. A couple of other things... The Freebag and Reserve Bridle / Pilot Chute stay with the container. The Reserve toggles stay with the container. Most folks say, the Reserve Links (Slinks or French Links) go with the Reserve Canopy. Keep the lines on the links, its a good way to keep then organized during shipping too. The packing data card SHOULD also go with the Reserve Canopy. Bottom line. At no point, should you have to CUT anything to get the Cypress out of a rig and/or detach the reserve. Also, you shouldn't have to force anything or "get a bigger hammer" to do either. Take care with the reserve lines NOT to snag them on the hook side of the Velcro on the freebag (pocket where the lines are stowed) or the Velcro on the reserve toggles. SAFETY TIP, if you de-mate any of the Velcro, re-mate it as soon as you're done working that area so as you move on there's not un-mated hook side of the Velcro just begging to snag something. Good luck. If you can get Yuengling beer in South Carolina, mail me a case, care of Skydive California City. Label it NON-ALCOHOLIC BEER, otherwise the vultures will get to it before me.

they have to be very moderate. Awh, crap! I was afraid of that. I'm screwed. ----- Actually, its a legit question. I'd like to hear what Sangiro says.

legs locks... hmmm... elaborate por favor. or examples/descriptions of ones you've did. I think LegLocks = HornyGorillas....no? Um, no. Lets go back! Back into time! When dinosaurs ruled the earth... ... and skydivers made their own parachutes from the skin from Terradactal wings and sinew from Velociraptors... There used to be "points" in the dive pools, the 4-Way dive pool comes to mind, where two folks in the formation would "lock legs"... imagine two folks in a snow-flake or a 2-way where one has wrist grips on the other's.... now 180 both and now imagine they have their legs locked. The only video I can think of showing a point with leg locks that comes to mind is the old Perris team, Air Moves (I think that was the name of their team)... circa late 80s / 1990, or there abouts? Maybe someone has a picture or can do a vid-cap from an old video to show folks here what a leg-lock in RW is (was). Leg locks left the dive pool years and years ago, is what I understand. It might be interesting to bring back leg-locks and see what that does to the Open division at the Nationals and World Meet and such. I mean, now with 4-way teams doing, like what, 40+ points in time!!

How does someone become a Moderator around here?

Proven? Proven how? Cause someone "says so" or the "theory is" they should?? You think they're the "bee's knees", wouldn't jump a rig without em! Have at it. If you're freeflyin', yeah, have em on your rig, they probably do more to help then harm... IF packed correctly. Done here. *Zig Out* Door!!!

Dave, I will not be drawn into another fruitless arguement other then to say "yes" to all of what you posed. Even that withstanding, I don't think secondary riser covers are "necessary", sure they bring some "goodness", but "necessary", I think not. Your opinion differs, I'm okay with that, please aford me the same.

Secondary riser covers are NOT a guarantee that you'll never have a riser / toggel come loose in freefall and cause you problems. I know one jumper that was jumping a rig with secondary riser covers... the riser cover came open in freefall, the main riser / toggle on that side got loose and on main deployment he had a mal, cut-away and uneventful reserve ride and landing. Was on a 40-way once, looked across the formation saw a jumper docked on the other side with about 3 feet of steering line and toggle trailing behind him... his riser covers were closed. He had a hell of a wonky main opening at the bottom end, but it didn't mal and he unstowed his other toggle, flew and landed his main uneventfully. I've never jumped a rig with secondary riser covers and have funneled a countless number of exits, been back-packed or fruitlooped, had a riser cover come un-done or not, and never had a problem. Just because I never have, I'm not saying I never will, just a statement of how goes it thus far. Folks doing freestyle, back in the day, did so on rigs that didn't have secondary riser covers. I often talk to some of the really old grey hairs at the DZ about "back in their day" they used to jump gutt gear and capewells and how did they do that!!?? It came down to, "If you wanted to skydive, that's what you jumped". Two true-isms in this sport... 1) There is a large amount of "luck" we're counting on in doing this thing of jumping out of an airplane with a glorified bed sheet strapped to our backs hopping it will morph itself from a neat pack-job to a perfectly operating ram-air parachute... while being a streaming "mess" of nylon and lines seaking to sort itself out in between. and... 2) Folks in that 0 to 5ish years in the sport tend to view the "norm" of gear in place as they come into the sport as the "necessary." I'll bet we could all take our Jav/Odessys or V3s or Micros and jump in a time machine, warp about 20 years to the future, step onto a DZ with our circa 2000 to 2007 gear and hear all kinds of criticism towards it as tomorrow's generation of jumpers gears up and heads towards the airplane with their spiffy new "anti-gravity belts & rocket boots"...

See what PZone said up thread. Again... see what PZone said up thread... all very true and accurate... but, my 2 cents, they are also a "free-fly-friendly" "feature" added a few years back now to many rigs for all that and also "pushed", in part, to the newbs that they're "new" = "better" and one "should have them!"... along with allowing the misconception to also proliferate that older rigs or other designs sans them were "bad" and "scary". Since otherwise new buyers wouldn't buy new rigs (the only way mfgr's make $$$). So, if you're looking to get in to FF... then by all means, get a rig with secondary riser covers, you want to do that, but if you're looking at RW, then a good used rig or new rig of a design sans secodary riser covers is just fine and no more "black deathy" then the other.

Wendy, I think what you're talking about is more like, your rating went away because of a lapse in currency. I once held a SL JM rate which I basically let lapse for what sounds like similar reasons. Rather then what HnS was originally saying / asking... ... where an AFFI gets his or her rating revoked for the reason(s) / scenario HnS was stating. The scenario he brings up is a tough one. In my time in the sport, I've seen 3 AFFIs (or AFF Jumpmasters as we used to call them) chase a student down to the point where the student's AAD fired and the AFFI/AFF JM barely got under his (or her) main parachute in time to save themselves. I've also seen one JM chase a student down to the point where the student's AAD fired and the JM DID NOT get his main (he threw his main... didn't go reserve) out in time to save his life... line strech & impact; he was a quad for several years before he died of complications. I also know another SL JM that "lost" a student; after he put the student out on a SL jump, the student's main malfunctioned, the student didn't try to deal with it until a couple of hundred feet above the ground, finally cut-away (SOS), but too late, pretty much line strech and impact under the reserve & the student died. It screwed up the SL JM in question and it was a long time before he started jumping again and even longer before he went back to being a JM. He was probably the most ultra conservative JM I've ever know, which, on one hand is a good thing, but on the other hand, the way he came by it, sucks, to say the least. I think HnS's orig question is a good one. I think the potential for an AFFI to have his or her rating revoked should exist, but I also think all the circumstances surrounding a student AAD fire or a student getting away from an AFFI should be looked at before just pulling their rating. Unfortunately, I think that when this happens... we all know it does from time to time... its handled a lot more quietly or "not talked about" maybe as much as it should be because, face it, we don't like putting ourselves or buddies on report, but this is at the expense of doing a better "investigation, cause & effect and what to do to prevent this in the future" exercise that would be of greather benifit to the JM, DZ, sport, etc. However, good or bad, most every AFFI I've ever really gotten to talking to about this topic has a "hard deck" that they'll admit to, if pressed, in the back of their minds that they won't chase a student past. The proliferation of AADs certainly changes this as it adds the "safety net". Even though when I came up in the sport, there were AADs on the student rigs I jumped (FXCs), I got off of student status and DID NOT have an AAD on my personal rig for several hunderd jumps before adding one... I can't imagine doing AFF in an AAD-less world or even direct-bag Static Lines.

Hey!!! What about on the belly band!!!??? errr, wait, NEVER MIND.

Switch your cell phone to the OFF mode... put it down... and BACK AWAY SLOWLY!

is that the new thing they are calling sarcasm? or is that a "retro" thing... i cant remember. thanks for the input. Yeah, sarcasm is pretty much a retro thing... or a given thing, when it comes to skydivers... depending on how you look at it.