ZigZagMarquis

Canuck, You make a good point about student (airplane) pilots being taught to deal with crosswind landings right from the get-go. I too was once a student pilot and recall this, but had never thought along those lines when it comes go came to student (canopy) pilots. I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sure I'm on-board with the idea of landing student canopy pilots crosswind on purpose, no matter how slight the crosswind component. For one thing, I've seen too many students, or low-time jumpers, or high-time jumpers get a bit crosswind and stick and arm or leg out when they get shoved sideways and break it. Okay, some will propose "more training", but that's an instictive reaction that's hard to break. In an airplane, when landing crosswind, you have a lot of "airplane" wrapped around you AND you have an engine that gives you the option to go around and take another look at it. Under a parachute, you have neither. Having said that, while one's plan may not be to land one's parachute cross-wind, if you're in this sport long enough, you'll learn to deal with it. I'm still not sure putting students who's canopy piloting skills are pretty much from wrote is best; i.e. students with a handful of jumps are not yet to the point where they can improvise based on experience... feel what the canopy is doing... or better yet, anticipate what its going to do and fly through it. I'm not sure when the best time to teach it is, but I'm thinking putting a student that still has less then 25 jumps in an "unsual landing condition" (example... cross-wind) isn't the best thing to do. Just my opinion. As for "lanes" and "landing areas" for high performance swoop landings. Obviously there's got to be some way of managing the traffic and traffic pattern with multiple canopies landing in the same general area... but there will always be those that argue they "can handle it" or "why is a 270 hook worse then a 180 hook"... basically, it comes down to the DZO and/or S&TA have to take a stand, what ever that stand may be, and stick to it. I am though starting to wonder if the move towards "landing directions" y'all see at some DZs rather then "landing into the wind & landing patterns" isn't part of the problem. For instances, you'll see a lot of DZs that say the main landing area is EAST WEST or NORTH SOUTH only, first person down sets the pattern... or others that are TOWARDS THE insert large landmark here IN NO WIND OR LIGHT WIND CONDITIONS. What I mean is, this mentality (for lack of a better word) is getting folks into the mind-set of "oh, I'm just going to land in that direction" and away from the mind-set of once they get under canopy they have to "check the windsock", "evaulate it for both wind direction and magnitude", use this information to "set-up a pattern" and "think about how to get into the pattern with the rest of the canopies / pilots on the load with them." In other words, is this move towards "just land in this direction" creating a situation where folks aren't "piloting" their canopies as much as "aiming" and paying less attention to whats going on around them, is what I'm begining to wonder? Canuck... not directed at you... just to all in the verse... I don't think any rule change or new policy should be viewed as a "knee-jerk" reaction to 6 fatalites in about 4 months due to canopy collisions or near collisions in the landing pattern.

Dunno. Wouldn't be the first time I've seen the FAA put that parachute symbol at the wrong spot. I've even written them about it once... their reaction was "oh well" and didn't seem too interested in fixing it.

Does anyone know if SDAZ's new Landing Policy has been enforced yet?

Good job Nick. Thanks for the 411. Anyway, I don't have a sectional laying around anymore, but I recall they put something on it in the vicinity of Elsinore & Peris saying something like "Intensive Parachute Operations in this Area"... besides just the little parachute symbol... but I can't recall if there is an altitude associated with that?

Nick, What was his reaction when you corrected him?

Yeah, I hear that Terry... one day we're going to have a bunch of "kids" telling us that doing hop-n-pops from 2 to 3 grand isn't "safe". They all ready are. Well, then let's really freak em out and drag a 2-way off at 3.5, snap a point or two, track, dump... pack opening by 2K, of course...

Sounds good. I'll be interested to hear how the "enforcement" goes. I'm not saying it is... but I hope this isn't just lip service... i.e. it will be interesting to hear that if someone breaks the rules, if they're really punished according to the policy.

Yeah, I hear that Terry... one day we're going to have a bunch of "kids" telling us that doing hop-n-pops from 2 to 3 grand isn't "safe". ---- Remember, the purpose of a main is to get you down safe when performing an intentional descent from an aircraft using a parachute. A Super Raven that isn't ragged out or overloaded will do that just fine... you just won't "look cool" in the eyes of a lot of folks in the sport doing it, but you're not supposed to die either.

1. Because it was not a cloud... It was "Industrial Haze". 2. Because I wear two altimeters. 3. Because I was spotting and I know there aren't any high objects in the area. 4. Because I never lost sight of the ground. 5. Because I hooked ONTO it, NOT INTO it. 6. Because that could NEVER happen to me. LOL Okay there hard charger. ***pssst*** Can I get $20 on PWScottIV

Its been awhile, so I'd have to go look it up to be sure, but the last time I packed a Strong Tandem Reserve the instructions called for a side (or stack pack... not quite a roll pack) and NOT to Pro-Pack it, as I recall.

... how do you know the bottom of the cloud you hooked it into wasn't near the ground? ------------------ Once upon a time, I was on a 30-some-way where at breakoff, when we all turned to track, we all went into the top of this industrial haze at about 5.5... and all came out the bottom at about 2. Pretty much everyone waited to dump until out the bottom... except for the tandem we were with that dumped on top. Anyway, not the smartest thing ever... what if that industrial haze had gone down to 1.5K?... 1K... lower?? But it made for great "No Shit... There I was... Thought I was gonna die!" stories in the Bomb Shelter that night!

Same old same old. Too bad you missed some of the "How to load an Otter..." posts that the mods here deleted... Anyway... When its Feb and its -20F at altitude, make sure you open the door 5 miles out and start "spotting."

Yeah, we had to do the same thing to Ushi... handed her a bottle of Tequlia... told her to start drinking and that we'd be back in about an hour with pliers...

Just watch out for the cactus. I've seen people land in cactus. Its not pretty and usually results in a bottle of Tequlia and needle nosed pliers...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2688211;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

For belly... the whole thing needs to be about 1.2lbs when done... that's Tennis Ball + Shot + Streamer + What ever you use to attach the Streamer. Make the Streamer 10 to 12 inches long. Some will tell you that's too long, screw them, you can always trim it off to make the Space Ball faster. Yes, you can jump them at Cal City, but YOU MUST tell Manifest and the Pilot (Van) before you get on the plane and if you're new to the place or low time, they're going to have one of the local ol' grey hairs give you some guidance on where to get out (don't be offended)... in days gone past, we've found Space Balls and other "stuff" that went in just yards off of Cal City Blvd, on the Taxi way and just off of Lindberg (the street that runs right past the airport). Last, but not least, depending on what jump run is that load, you may get out first, you may get out last, so you're way out over the desert. Don't expect to get back to the landing area (i.e. don't bitch if you don't)... its the trade off you make for being allowed to jump a Space Ball. A lot of places, they won't even let you on the plane with one.

That's awesome. I can't believe anyone would actually get on a skydiving aircraft, not knowing how to get out in case of an emergency. What some people don't know about what it is they're doing and the things their doing it with (gear, aircraft, etc.) in this sport never ceases to amaze me. ... but that's a different topic. ---------- How about these... 1) Be part of a medium to big way RW jump... get on the plane and then at aout 9.5K ask, "Am I floating or am I inside the plane?" Realize you're front float and have to crawl over several people to get to the door... then climb out rear float when the door opens... 2) Get on a full Otter load and at 1K when folks start loosening up, move to the floor by the door and say, "There's nobody here this weekend." To which your buddies say, "Then why's the plane full and you had to share a seatbelt for takeoff!!?"

I had fun getting mine Yeah, everything seems like a good idea after a bottle of Tequlia...

... if you saw how one gets a Peckerhead shirt... you wouldn't want one...

Cool thanks. OBTW... what's the scary thing on your back??!? JUST KIDDING!

What does moose meat taste like?

No. Wanting a "pill" that will fix every little thing that goes wrong or causes discomfort in one's life is just a sign of weakness.

If the DZO or S&TA are unwilling (or unaware) to stop this, then you are basically screwed. You can either "look out for #1" and land out yourself or pack up and go home and while cashing out for the few jumps you did and on your way out politely let the DZO / Manifest that you're leave early, but would have done more jumps (i.e. spent more $$ there) if they had policed their landing area / rules better. If one person does this, they'll probably just call you crazy, if two people do this, they'll probably just call you... assholes, or something... but if a whole group of people do this, they'll think its a movement...

Yeah... and this was a pretty darn funny... [joke] [/joke] thread that folks started taking way too serious... myself included...

Bill, no arguments... but, we're not talkin' final checks here... we're talking folks who get on the plane with their gear in such a state that if you chucked them out before they did this... they probably wouldn't stay in their harness...