mrshutter45

"HOW did that happen with ALL of the SMART equipment on the planes of today?" depends on who the person is dealing with the "Smart Equipment" or how smart he is.... why do they call them "apartments" when there all stuck together? why do they call it a television set when you only get one? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Robert says: "they express a desire to examine it" Shutter's reply: how does that equal what you wrote? "The Seattle FBI did have people step forward, but none were allowed to actually EXAMINE the chute, including Tom Kaye at Citizen Sleuths. Funny they allowed him access to everything else" I have a different story straight from the source. you put way to much speculation into things Robert. again I'll ask you what proof do you have anyone was denied access? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"The Seattle FBI did have people step forward, but none were allowed to actually EXAMINE the chute, including Tom Kaye at Citizen Sleuths. Funny they allowed him access to everything else" exactly what proof do you have he was denied access to the chute. more assuming again? I would step very lightly on this answer. "So where does that leave you on the Amboy chute? Exactly where you are WANTED to be. In the dark. Better look for that flashlight." you seem to have a problem with people not supplying information to verify something? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

perhaps this could shed some light..... http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_02/textonly/s01txt.html "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

lol, claim....I give ya that one. didn't notice I wrote that. same with form/forum. doesn't change anything. still dodging and refusing to answer questions you had no problem posting for years. whining you say? is that what it's called when asking for proof or a question related to the topic of DB Cooper? I guess I could only expect half from you anyway. that's your style. part time jobs, part time Cooper, part of the story of KC etc. etc. if you wish to respond to this post. I would appreciate it if you would email the response. my email is in my profile. Thank You "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

But, Robert, that's the point. The only reason anyone would think AB is about Cooper or KC is that you post about it here. And, why would Gayla read DZ unless you talk about your conversations here? I think we have reached the end of trying to reason with Robert. it's pointless. he wants to claim up on an open form about prior evidence posted on this form. I'm done with him personally. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

WRONG. The early version recorded on metal foil on which overwriting was impossible. Attached is from the NTSB document Smokin provided link to. I believe this is the unit. also shows how it records and the time limits. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"Excuse me...but what makes YOU deserving of special attention?" I think that was the joke part right? NEWSFLASH. this is a form where DB Cooper is discussed. questions and answers are found here. I don't see any other posters telling people to email them a question. you are the one who wishes special treatment when asked to step up to the plate. this is an open form where questions and answers happen. you had no problem splattering KC all over this form until parts of truth evolved. post after post of the same KC tune since Aug. 1 2010. now you want to claim up when confronted. this damages any credibility you think you might have on this form. I will make it a point to show my findings prior to the release of your book since you wish to hide everything for the number one seller in the future. No prob Bob...... also: being worried about what Georger will do with your answers is another cop out. he rips apart anything you say regardless. shows fear...... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

no, the truth is you should answer the question here, not thru email. that's what this form is about. now your doing the same as you and Jo accuse the FBI of. hiding things. it's ok no worries. I clean my home just fine. I don't need lazy things done for me. I believe in doing things myself. too many lazy people in this country anymore. what are you going to do once the book comes out? hide it from the thread. I'm sure you will get lots of feedback on that so waiting till the book comes out is a cop out anyway you look at it. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

this is a form where we discuss things related to the case. your simply dodging the questions. it's ridiculous to email questions that are clearly ones you have said in the past on this thread. no problem on the cop out, I understand. please in the future do not ask me any questions. I also have a email. get the last dig in before I start cleaning my house. that way it will remain with you on top until I return.... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Here are some simple questions that need a reply of ONLY Yes or No. 1) did KC purchase his home for $16,500 2) do you have proof other than words that Kenny loaned $5,000 3) do you have proof the person who received the loan purchased a home in 1972. 4) does it make sense that Kenny loaned out $5,000 to someone, but couldn't afford his own home for cash. 5) do you think there is a logical explanation why Kenny had so much money towards the end of his life. 6) do you find it odd that Kenny would have trouble with the stairs. 7) did you notice on your website you have a picture of Kenny beside the FBI sketch. 8) did you notice just under the Kenny beside the sketch you show how descriptions can be wrong. 9) do you think Kenny paid $10 for a piece of property. 10) do you find it odd that someone who knows Kenny ID'd the clip but not the black tie he seems to have worn during work? 11) do you have any proof showing Kenny had an expensive stamp/coin collection. (paper trail) 12) do you understand deception can be found in some of the people you trust and call "witnesses" 13) do you have any real proof linking Kenny to being DB Cooper other than what people told you. 14) do you find it odd that Kenny could loan $5,000, but fail to pay off $7,000 in the same time period. 15) do you honestly think Kenny would risk being seen doing this crime. 16) do you think Cooper would have known it was ok to start spending the cash a short time after the crime. yes/no answers ONLY...... You may pick up your pencil... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

the questions asked are mostly ones that have history through your thousands of KC postings. now you want to play the confidential game? what ever dude. seems you had no problems dishing it out, but can't seem to handle the truth of a large portion of your so called evidence. website down lol good move.. the trust lies with you pal, not the posters asking questions...old school term would be a cop out. make sure you get the last word in on this! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Blevins, You obviously didn't bother to read the post that I quoted and to which I was replying. Your "so what" above brings up the obvious question of why you even replied to my post in the first place? Or was it just another of your knee-jerk replies to keep up your pretense of being a "leading Cooper researcher"? Confidentiality Agreements to cover up your own demonstrated incompetence with the KC book? That's the best laugh I have had since lunch. How much of your forthcoming "Cooperland" masterpiece will you be stealing from DZ and the other posters on this thread? Just asking. Robert99 he also uses the excuse of not trusting people. this has nothing to do with trusting people on this thread. it's a question asked by people who expect answers. it doesn't make sense. He uses the "source please" every time something comes into question, but ask him about something and it turns into a trust issue. the trust is not in the question asked by someone, it's in the answer! that's trust. Reality Hotel insert thingy "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Ok, I'll ask the question....then why are you posting here, Robert? This is a DB Cooper discussion forum. What is to be gained by waiting until your book "Cooperland" comes out? You say it is only going to be tangentially about the Cooper case, but more about the personalities of the folks who follow the case. So, you find information about the case, but you won't post it. But, you will post about the Seahawks game, your cleaning business your Sci-Fi books and lots of other topics. You can talk about what you want...but if that's what you want to talk about, why are you doing it here? possibly notoriety since he has everything linking to him. when he is not advertising he throws a wrench into everything said on this thread as inaccurate or plain out wrong. then he wants everyone to know that he doesn't really follow the case much in order to make it look as if he can discuss the case standing on his head. his percentage of inaccuracies go off the chart. even with his investigation into KC, but this doesn't stop him from correcting others. anyone see a problem with this? how many times has Robert said he was leaving the form, or finished with the thread? many times over I believe. then he repeats the same pattern claiming he will not respond to Georger anymore. that's the one up thingy. the guy has issues no doubt. to date, it's been almost a month since the error's were noticed on his website which he has chosen to ignore, but wants to see proof from others when they speak????? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

"What is the big deal? No one here even suspects that KC could be Cooper. So why keep asking about him?" you put this crap on here for years and then whine that people come down on you about KC? It's because of the way you investigated it, very poorly might I add. you kept pushing and pushing KC after everyone was tired of it. it's time to reverse it. how many times do you think you posted the top 10/25 list? I'll bet 60 to 100 times. I mean....Really? I think it's you that people don't trust on here if you ask me! "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Just curious, Robert....did you hear anything back on the package you sent? It is a simple question. Answer it. NO. I've explained this maybe seven times now. Absolutely NO NEW INFO will be released by AB of Seattle at Dropzone on Kenny Christiansen or any NEW investigation on him until further notice. Not happening. Frankly, some of you can't be trusted. Others I have no problem with. The 'others' group is much larger, fortunately. You may contact me by email, but then I will have to verify your identity and obtain a Confidentiality Agreement from you to release anything. Sorry, but that's the way it goes. Besides, I have to verify certain info. Then why bring it up in the first place if you do not intend to expand on it? Your response could have been as easy as: Yes....he received it and I have been in contact with him. Or.....No, wrong person. If you are not comfortable sharing it on the forum then say nothing. We all would appreciate it. I guess we will all wait in the fetal position until your new book is released, re-written and given away as a free PDF. Yawn.. BTW....It wasn't an open ended question. I was only expecting a yes or no answer. not only does he refuse to 'release" anything. he fails to manage his own site that is full of errors for his little KC groupies to believe off of. hundreds and hundreds of people contact him about this case. lol. lots of true facts, just like DB Cooper the true story lol. I think it's time to make a You Tube channel providing all the false information about his suspect. might even leave a special spot for the filthy comments to be posted. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Doubtful, at least between Seattle and Portland. Cascade Mountains are well under 10,000 feet ASL in this area. The only real exceptions are Mount Rainier, Mount St Helens, and possibly Mount Adams. But those mountains are a fair distance EAST of V23. Just saying. You literally don't know what you are yammering about or anything about this! he needs to correct his own problems. website still full of error's, but as usual he must correct everyone here, or try to..... "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I'd like to comment on several things mentioned above although I can't tell exactly who it is I am reply to. The NWA airliner was squawking transponder code 3100 all the way from Seattle to Reno. The requests for the airliner to "ident" were normal and used during handoffs from one controller to another. All the ident function does is cause the image of the specific aircraft to enlarge on the controller's radar so he can be certain he is looking at the image of the desired aircraft. The airliner may well have been "lost" (or outside the view of the radar station) at times since it was at a relatively low altitude (10,000 feet ASL) and there probably were mountains between the airliner and radar. Like VHF and UHF communications, the airliner has to be in line-of-sight of the radar station for it to be "seen". If the radar return from the airliner's transponder was "lost" due to terrain issues, then pressing the "ident" button on the transponder would not have any effect at all on what the radar was seeing or not seeing. In the 1971 time frame, both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and aircraft Flight Data Recorder were recorded on reels that had not more than about one hour of recording capability before it started recording over the previous data, which then was unrecoverable. The purpose of the CVR and FDR recordings were to assist in accident investigations. The FAA has come down hard on some airline pilots who pulled the circuit breakers to retain data on such things as incidents with air traffic controllers. Apparently the FAA wants the recorders to continue to run until some metal gets bent. There is little possibility that voice or aircraft recorder data was used in the hijacking "incident" investigation. Robert99 what about the FBI document stating data was recovered from the recorder? was it minimal information at best for 1971? it was relatively new to the industry during this time period. or is it possible they are talking about radio transmissions? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Interesting stuff found on the thread...... Sluggo wrote: Let me try to add something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty. Some may call it anecdotal, if so, I’m not offended. I’m in the same boat with the rest of you, too many statements and not enough “facts”. In a phone conversation with Ralph Himmelsbach on March 6th, 2009. While sitting in my car outside the Conestoga Steak House in Dothan, AL. I asked Ralph, point blank; “Where did the data for the flight path, shown on the 1970s era Seattle sectional (do you know the one I mean?, Ralph says “yes”) come from?” “Do you know who produced (drew) the map itself?” Ralph replied (without hesitation); “I DON’T KNOW!” What I should have (additionally) asked was; “Were you aware of the map BEFORE your retirement?” I will be talking to him next week and I will ask that question then. Maybe we can figure out the origin of the document that we (I) have put so much faith in. Sluggo_Monster Exempt from the “something to this discussion that will (may) remove one tiny piece of uncertainty” statement above: Aditionally, there is an aviation professional that I am aware of but have not yet been able to contact (but I am trying) who was an eye-witness, and disputes Ralph’s claim about the deviation toward Troutdale (the town, not the airport). Jerry Thomas: Your question very good one.So I called Ralph a few minutes ago and ask him. This is what he said, The FBI agents that interviewed the pilots were not pilots themselves and questions a pilot would have asked were not. The airline pilots assumed that the FBI new they were to the east. It wasn't untill Ralphs retirement party that Rat and Ralph talked about this.Then it was realized. Now for the flight map.The map came from NW Airlines engeneers and was at best a guess aparently they hadn't talked to the pilots either. Snowman: "I also find it odd that it is mentioned the plane was not "on radar"? What is that supposed to mean as ATC radar beams don't decide to randomly "ignore" a plane. The transponder can probably be turned off on the plane which aids ATC (assuming they had those then anyway)." 305's transponder was on. The Seattle ARTCC transcript notes when the radar operator "loses" 305's transponder (implying no longer visible on his radar). Also several "ident requests" were given by Seattle ARTCC. The transponder lost, happened well south of PDX. (in time). Jerry/Himmelsbach's comment about no radar is wrong. Now there is a valid question about whether radar data was stored and used in the flight path map. The '72 DZ map implies that radar from McChord was used along with flight recorder data. That means flight recorder data was recovered. Now McChord implies military radar, not Seattle ARTCC. So it's confusing. But the questions are more subtle than what Jerry is proposing. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Are you referring to flight data recorder or cockpit voice recorder? I thought FDRs (71 vintage) recorded on something permanent like foil or film rather than an endless loop tape. Maybe I'm thinking of earlier vintage FDRs. Here's the latest NTSB protocols for recovering FDRs. http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/manuals/FDR_Handbook.pdf 377 well it appears I was favoring the voice recorder over the flight data recorder. also appears it wouldn't help much. it records airspeed, magnetic heading, altitude and vertical acceleration. I don't think it would help much if they retrieved anything from it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlY5W7be5jU "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

Hi, Hominid. you are correct, I gave the link to the voice recorder, but it's appears both are on a loop? "All airliners are required to carry flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders that run on a loop, preserving all flight parameters and conversation for short periods of time, usually one to several hours." could they record that long in the 70's? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I know that's what has been said on here, but from what I read it looked like the requirements at that time were that the recorder had to record the entire flight and there was a retention period of 60 days. ?? "In September 1959, these regulations were revised to establish a retention period of 60 days for records and to clarify the time period that the flight recorder must be in operation, that is, continuously during flight, from the beginning of the takeoff roll until the end of the landing roll. These requirements, together with subsequent amendments to the Federal Aviation Regulations (FAR), resulted in the recording of flight records continuously during flight of all turbine powered transport category aircraft operated by air carriers of United States registry. (See Appendix A.)" correct, it runs continuously, but on a loop. the main objective of the black box is to retrieve the last part of a flight so they can see and hear what happened before impact. as long as it's running all the time and a plane crashes shortly after take off they still have the data. so yes it's running all the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockpit_voice_recorder "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

ok on the lines, the flight recorder data would only be good if the pulled the breaker on the recorder, it runs on a loop so if they didn't stop it, the data would be lost. "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

the road is called the Lewis river road that runs along the river. that is what the black line represents on the maps. if that is the random lines you are talking about? "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI

I know but, the outlines and sections they had on that map - never have I seen that. This is an amazing photo and it is for real. Gives credence to the areas as outlined not being given to the public. I have known what their statement was - but that picture give credence to the statements made regarding the search areas. well here is another one for ya. different angle "It is surprising how aggressive people get, once they latch onto their suspect and say, 'Hey, he's our guy.' No matter what you tell them, they refuse to believe you" Agent Carr FBI