MeyerLouie

I just farted in your general direction...!!!!! __________________________________________________ But there's someone around here called the 'vitriole magnet,' and I wonder how many people stay away from, and have left, the thread because of him. I'm getting a real strong feeling right now, and I believe it's gas....oh oh, I just let one go too.

I don't know about the experience part. The FBI first thought the hijacker had a fair amount of jump experience, then later Larry Carr discounted that idea. I disagree, but on that point people do have differing opinions. The hijacker didn't know what chutes he was going to get, and yet he worked with them as if he knew what he was doing. The best witnesses to the jump are the crew. Rataczak's testimony has been pretty consistent on that regarding the bump, occillations, door indicator light coming on, then off for a second, then on for good, with no more incidents all the way to Reno. That's the best evidence available that the crew was correct in saying they knew WHEN Cooper jumped, but not where he landed. (Depends on when he pulled the ripcord) I think the flight path/sim research is a great idea, and kudos to those involved. The only thing I pointed out was that without knowing HOW the FBI came to the conclusions they did (flight path/map), then it's difficult to discount those conclusions, especially if any NEW conclusions are substantially different than the originals. A mile or two might not make that much difference, but if someone says he jumped over the Columbia or the flight passed near Tina Bar, then you have to know the parameters on the FBI's conclusions, in order to support this theory. Like you, I would like to know who created the famous FBI flight map, because you would like to go to the source. Find out what people were responsible for it, and what data they used to make it. Blevins, You just did an excellent job of ducking the question. My reading of Mrshutter's question is that he is asking YOU how you came to your conclusions since you don't have a baseline, any data, no witnesses, or any personal experience with parachutes. Robert99 _________________________________________________ Blevins: Remember Rosanna Rosanna Danna on Saturday Night Live? The late Gilda Radner played the part. Well this post makes you the new Rosanna Rosanna Dana. You were asked a question, you didn't really hear it, you only heard what you wanted to hear. But that didn't stop you, you did your little lecture anyway -- without having eally heard the question, without having really answered the question -- just like Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to do. Kudos on your impersonation, it was good. I guess it's really true -- some folks don't have a whole lot to say, but that usually doesn't keep 'em from talking. MeyerLouie

Blevins, you speak of people not having common sense? how did you come to the conclusion of how Cooper jumped off the stairs without any baseline or data? no witnesses or any experience in parachutes? the police recreate a murder scene based on what they have. most of the time they nail it! this is the same thing we are doing. why do you think I am talking with Robert99, I'm soaking up the knowledge he has because I trust and respect his comments! I also have great respect for Georger contrary to your beliefs he has not lost any credibility in my book.... are you familiar with Sage Radar, how it works? _________________________________________________ Blevins: It seems people like Mrshutter45, Robert99, Georger, me, and others here have got your number. I'm not speaking for them, but I've heard each and every one of them, here on this forum, at one time or another, question your credibility, your methods, and/or your conclusions. How does one face people without any credibility? Where's the shame, where's the integrity? C'mon man, you gotta know. MeyerLouie

Without understanding how they arrived at their conclusions makes it a one-sided research project. You can't verify your own research without knowing how they arrived at theirs. __________________________________________________ You can't be serious, Blevins. Why would you need to know their research in order to verify your own research? Your own research will live on its own merits if it's done right. Any errors of their ways will come to light, automatically. You don't need confirmation from someone else's research in order to do your own quality research -- unless you are totally co-dependent. Where, on God's green earth, do you come up with these crazy conclusions, Blevins? MeyerLouie

The idea that the rebounding of the airstairs, the indicator light going off for a moment, and then coming back on for good, is the best evidence supporting the idea that Cooper jumped at the time the crew said he did. There just isn't any evidence showing otherwise. I mean, it's pure speculation. It's okay to speculate, sure. I've done it, but some amount of evidence is needed to even show it may have happened. A second minor bump later in the flight, additional occillations, whatever. But there is nothing to indicate these things. _________________________________________________ Blevins: Your point is well-taken, I understand what you're saying. Nonetheless, the evidence still does not constitute proof. Georger says there's another take on the evidence from Farflung, 377, Snowman, et al. I would be interested in looking at that. I'll reserve further comment until I do some more study. MeyerLouie

I wouldn't call it 'sunshine'. More of a job I reluctantly accepted. Notice you re-quoted all those evidentiary points without making a single comment to any of them. Hard to deal with when someone actually comes at you with facts that can be checked by outside sources, isn't it? Come on, last week you had Cooper possibly going up and down the stairs trying to fake out the crew. I found that downright funny, to tell you the truth. On a side note, I never liked the show Kung-Fu. They should have cast Bruce Lee for the part. __________________________________________________ Blevins: When someone responds to you with a joke, or in joking way, you don't have to take everything so literally and so seriously. It's like you never get the joke -- ain't got no funny bone, no? The 'sunshine' joke was referring to how you repeat yourself and your KC story over and over and over again. You didn't get the joke, did ya? Hey Grasshopper, Bruce Lee was supposed to get the lead part for Kung Fu. You knew that, right? I'm glad you brought up the aft stairs issue again. Here's the truth: no one has proven when Cooper jumped from 305. Rataczak's testimony about when he thought Cooper jumped (when the pressure bump occurred) does not prove that Cooper jumped at that time. The pressure bump is only an indicator of a possibility, maybe even a strong possibility, that's it. No one, I mean, no one saw Cooper jump. Hence, no one has been able to prove when the jump actually occurred -- if it even occurred. In recent posts, we've heard from experts who now say there is the possibiity that Cooper could have jumped from a higher position on the aft stairs -- the implication being that could have happened without causing the aft stairs to rebound enough to create a noticeable pressure bump. That being so, doesn't that imply then that Cooper could have jumped anytime, anywhere from 305? It seems then that my original question is still intact: Was Cooper smart enough to make us think he jumped when he actually didn't? Is there another explanation for the pressure bump (again Blevins, Rataczak's solid statement about the pressure bump does not constitute proof of a jump)? Maybe Cooper went down those aft stairs a couple of times afterall (from what I've gotten from the skydiving experts here, that's not so un-doable). MeyerLouie

Notice you re-quoted all those evidentiary points without making a single comment to any of them. Hard to deal with when someone actually comes at you with facts that can be checked by outside sources, isn't it? __________________________________________________ Only you do this Blevins -- as if saying more and having an answer for everything on this forum somehow makes you look and sound smarter. Ever think you just try too hard? I'm betting you were always the last one picked for baseball in 6th grade. MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Tell us once again, Grasshopper, about KC and the sunshine he has brought into your life. Please tell, I didn't get it the 200th time.

It's just a theory, a possibility. The real jump would not have been made from the bottom step but much higher so leverage (moment arm for you engineers) would be less and hence less deflection when departing. 377 _________________________________________________ Okay, I see 377 -- I didn't quite have it right from your previous post. Would Cooper have cleared the aircraft or aft stairs by jumping from a higher position on the aft stairs? Smacking into the aircraft would put a serious damper on the entire project I would think. The last thing that goes through a fly's mind when he hits the windshield is his mind. Flies have minds, don't they? Hey Blevins, I just made a funny. MeyerLouie This might help you MayerLouie __________________________________________________ It does, I never knew. Thanks for providing your knowledge and expertise. MeyerLouie

It's just a theory, a possibility. The real jump would not have been made from the bottom step but much higher so leverage (moment arm for you engineers) would be less and hence less deflection when departing. 377 _________________________________________________ Okay, I see 377 -- I didn't quite have it right from your previous post. Would Cooper have cleared the aircraft or aft stairs by jumping from a higher position on the aft stairs? Smacking into the aircraft would put a serious damper on the entire project I would think. The last thing that goes through a fly's mind when he hits the windshield is his mind. Flies have minds, don't they? Hey Blevins, I just made a funny. MeyerLouie

It's just a theory, a possibility. The real jump would not have been made from the bottom step but much higher so leverage (moment arm for you engineers) would be less and hence less deflection when departing. 377 _________________________________________________ Okay, I see 377 -- I didn't quite have it right from your previous post. MeyerLouie

Robert replies: I never said the FBI was incompent, incomplete, or inconsistent. They just haven't solved the case yet. Robert replies: Sure, they put thought into it. Later they said the money was probably a sign Cooper died in the jump. Agent Furhman told me that yes...my thoughts on how approximately three bundles of the ransom ended up there, and nothing else...was not discussed in 1980. He said no one at that time who was investigating the money find thought of it, and he agreed with my point that it might be evidentiary. If you don't believe me, you can contact him yourself and ask him. He also has a daughter and both of them live in the Seattle area. The Seattle FBI office will forward messages/mail to him if you ask. Robert: Tom Kaye and his team say the same. They point to the cessation of dumping dredge spoils there after 1974. The degradation of the rubber bands has to be considered, though. Could they have still been around the money after nine years, even in a crumbling state? Robert: BK is the Twilight Zone. ULTRA whatever and all that. Using him for support is like using Lindsay Lohan in an anti-drug commercial. You've just stated a theory on how the money arrived, but there is no evidence (yet) to support it. No signs of the bag, no body, no briefcase, no parachute. If you say the money washed up, then how did three bundles stay together to end up in the same exact spot? If the bag landed on Tena Bar, then where's the rest of the money or any signs of the bag? There is also the matter of the flight path, of course. Current info says it wasn't over Tena Bar, unless the FBI is wrong. Robert: Crew reported that the indicator light only went OFF once during the flight, a few minutes after the door was opened. Just ONCE. This means that when it did, this was the point Cooper actually jumped. In order for the indicator light to go off, the stairs must very nearly close completely. Your scenario is like a Bouncing Betty and doesn't match the known facts. Think about what you are saying here. Hijacker out there with three screaming jet engines over his head. It's freezing out there. He has a chute and a load. Stairs up and down from his weight and airflow. You have him running around like a chicken without a head. This is really a stretch on your part. As I said, the indicator light came ON when the stairs were activated. Light only went off ONCE. Testimony from Rataczak says they knew he jumped. He said that in 1996, and later for us. Same story. He says they know WHEN he jumped, they just don't know where he LANDED. Robert: You are right, it's not important. I think if they do another film, they should have Cooper backing down, though. Otherwise, the actor portraying Cooper had better be a contortionist. The opening to pass through (until the stairs take his weight) was 36" or less. Might be tough to do that wearing a chute and packing a load. It's a small point, yes. Robert: See above. The door indicator light only went off ONE time during the flight, and it did so north of Portland. Then it stayed ON all the way to Reno. No other pressure bumps. Just the one time. If Cooper jumped over the Columbia, then your theory about the money could conceivably hold weight. But the evidence doesn't indicate a Portland jump, but one farther north. Also...the condition of the money and rubber bands may not indicate the money was exposed to water and/or the elements for almost nine years. Robert: You're going with the flood theory, i.e. it washed up from somewhere else because of a water fluctuation. I already answered that above. I'll agree your theory is as good as any others right now. The Citizen Sleuths don't share your theory, though. Just saying. For the record, this is our official position on the whole thing. __________________________________________________ Just got an answer for everything, don't you Blevins. Sometimes, some people don't have a whole lot to say, but that usually doesn't keep 'em from talking (not you, of course, Blevins). BK is in the twilight zone? Coming from you, now that's funny. Didn't say I was a BK fan. His theory that the money ended up at Tina Bar by natural means because of a possible flood event does more to explain the condition of the T-Bar money than you and your buddies' "non-natural means" theory -- which, to me, is so unlikely and improbable. Whatever the heck "non-natural means" -- but that's another story. You, and others, just completely ignore the condition of the bills. Maybe when Cooper jumped out of 305, the wind caused the bills to become pitted, tattered, and worn. Afterall, it was a fierce wind coming out of 305. Cooper was, as Bob Seiger once said, "against the wind." Or maybe Cooper lost the moneybag in the River, then found it several years later, then took 3 packets out of the bag and buried them at Tina Bar -- just to throw us all off and get a good laugh. Cooper running around like a chicken with its head cut off? He walks down the stairs twice and up once is hardly a chicken with its head cut off, Drama Queen. Rataczak -- nor anybody else for that matter -- has been able to prove the exact moment Cooper actually jumped -- way north of the Columbia or otherwise -- there is no proof, it has not been substantiated. Don't think Cooper was smart enough to make us think he jumped when he really didn't? Once again, you do not know the difference between your assumptions and actual fact. If an expert says it's possible to freefall off the bottom aft stair without activating the pressure bump gauge, then that's good enough for me. Expertise comes from experience, not from how loud you can talk. MeyerLouie

Of course. Almost everything being "discussed" here is a non-point. What is being accomplished by all of this "discussion"? Really? I truly don't get it. I question my own rationality for even bothering to read this thread...and post once a month the way I do. __________________________________________________ Oh, c'mon now, you don't really mean that, do ya? Meyer Louie __________________________________________________ Doing what DB did was almost trivial. Thousands -...tens of thousands...of jumpers could pull it off. With one exception: doing it alone without loss of the money bag. Tying the money bag to the harness/body without help is almost impossible. The found money pretty much confirms it, from my perspective. 550 cord (parachute line to you whuffos) is notoriously difficult to work with and tie... without some practice. The act of tying the bag to the harness or his body without another pair of hands to support the cumbersome weight and shape of the bag would be very difficult, IMO. Finding buried money, dredging, pressure bumps, rain, placards, airways etc etc,..all unimportant. He jumped and he lost the money. Maybe he died. Maybe he didn't. If I did he jump...I wouldn't tell anyone. I'd be too embarrassed... I am not D B Cooper. _________________________________________________ Couldn't Cooper have sat in one of the chairs (or even on the floor), with the moneybag sitting in the chair next to him. That way, he wouldn't have to support the weight of the moneybag while trying to tie the rope around himself and around the moneybag. Is that a possibility? Difficult, but if anyone practiced, I'm betting it was him. And we're not talking just about the moneybag. How about the briefcase and its contents, and the other two parachutes? Could he have packed all that stuff along in the jump without losing any of it? A lot has already been said about the possibility of him going into a tailspin because of when he actually pulled the cord and because of his equilibrium and balance being so adversely affected by the parcels and weight he was carrying. I'm not a skydiver, so I guess I'm asking your expert opinion. MeyerLouie

How intriguing. What's your theory as to why a wash down theory isn't realistic? I'm not attempting humor or sarcasm; it seems to me that "how the money got there" ...given the speculated ways...has not been definitively determined and agreed upon. Oddly.

Jo, there is also something to be said about repetition with your own story...or offering up said story repeatedly without any evidence to back it up. _________________________________________________ And Blevins, your proof is......? You have repeated your story over and over again without any proof, and you criticize Jo for one and the same? C'mon Blevins, how about a little humility once in a while. Merriee's ex-husband was Neil Rush -- nice guy. They divorced years and years ago, right after she became a big star. MeyerLouie

Can't say I've met him. I have met Merilee Rush, some of the Wailers, and others involved in what they once called the Northwest Sound. Bass, sometimes rhythm when they turned me loose with my Gibson SG. I was the young kid on the block, though. After some shows, I would wake up the next morning in a strange place and wonder who that woman was next to me. I was always polite, though.

_________________________________________________ Jo: In my earlier days, when I attended high school and undergrad school, I worked for the US Forest Service summers and part-time doing stand exams (timber inventory/timber management technique that several state and federal foresters used to do, and still do). We used aerial photographs, fairly good quality, to find and pinpoint exact locations of specific trees! No kidding, we used to pinpoint the location of a single tree using a USFS aerial photograph. If the land you're talking about is federal or state land, it may be possible to get the aerial photos. I reviewed aerial photos from the Okanogan National Forest as early as 1970. Lots of that forest data were made available on microfiche. Forest service personnel from all over the Northwest used to go to the Forest Service Regional Office in Portland, OR to photograph their maps and records so as to get that data onto microfiche -- the technology of the time. I got to work in that photo/microfiche lab in the USFS Portland Regional Office. We photographed tons of forestry maps and records. PM me, I can look into this for you if you like. I know these records were archived, but for how long, I don't know. It may be worth a try. MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Hey Blevins, maybe you ought to take some survival wilderness training. I've had some -- and I've camped in the wilderness. The training I received always stressed preparation and planning. All of the crises you listed, that you found yourself in, were avoidable -- if you had only prepared properly and thought things through. To put yourself in so many compromising, ridiculously dangerous situations, time and again, tells me you are an adrenalin junkie. You like living on the edge. I know a couple guys just like you. Keep doing it Blevins, and it's a virtual certainty -- just a matter of time -- that you're luck is going to run out. Only DBC can live on the edge like that and let it propel him into legendary immortality. It won't work for us mortals. If I were you, I wouldn't go around bragging about all the times I risked my life so unnecessarily -- some people might think you're a couple bricks short of a full load. Tthen we won't have the joy and priviedge of enjoying your deep insights and observations re: the Cooper case -- because you'll be gone. I suppose I could do a little eulogy for ya..... MeyerLouie

_________________________________________________ Answer the question Blevins. I thought that document was classified. MeyerLouie I was the one who originally asked him about this question.... " I have briefly reviewed the Palmer report" wasn't the "Palmer Report" classified? how did you read it? his answer... "Truth is, I can't remember if someone sent it to me, or if I found it on a search. I think it was sent to me. There are two main computers in this office, and a laptop. Also, one other computer which was taken off-line about a year ago and sits in the closet. That one is where all the Cooper files resided, although I transferred a great deal of them using a 16gb flash drive" Here's another Great Truth, and probably not a surprise: Understand this: I no longer trust some of you here at Dropzone. The main reason is because some of you went bat-crazy on the Regina Winkles article on Christiansen. Over 380 of the most filthy-ass comments it has ever been my displeasure to read, and many of the usernames came from people who post here regularly. Now sure...I understand that maybe your usernames were cloned, but the fact remains that none of you complained about it, even after I pointed out what was going on there several times...which denotes a tacit support of those comments. Also, I noticed many of the comments were made the same day as similar comments here on this DZ thread. Only difference was the DZ comments weren't full of filth. It didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out active participants here on the Cooper thread were doing a little extracurricular activity on a non-monitored article. To put it more simply: I took the PDF paper copy of the comments and compared them to subjects being discussed here at Dropzone. I found out these subjects were being mentioned at around the same time at the Regina article. This told me that at least some of you were doing double-duty. Posting up politely here, and dropping by HER article when things at DZ got slow. Why? Because Regina wasn't minding the store. She was embarrassed, and almost had her account deleted. So the trust thing is gone. There were comments regarding Gayla, my parents, other people I know. HUNDREDS of comments like that. You think about that for a minute. And I'm supposed to trust people here now with possibly sensitive information? After the comments were eventually taken down, I found out Mark Mullenberg DID read my email and review the PDF of the comments, although I'm sure he 'kicked down' the job of handling the situation. Wordpress probably responded because...believe it or not...some people were actually making references to pedophilia. I should replace the usernames with the users' REAL names on the PDF of the comments and make it public through the Cooperland article series at Newsvine. Trust me, I considered doing it, but thought better of it. Trust? Forget about it. Ain't happening. However, in the interest of basic courtesy, I asked Gayla today (she handles all the incoming AB mail) to find the file. She told me it was not sent to us by email. Someone sent us the report via snail mail in paper form. I'm not telling you who sent it, so don't ask. Where is it now? None of your business. I did read it once, not particularly thoroughly, and it's boring to anyone who isn't a geologist. Besides, now I have people telling me here at DZ it's probably illegal to even OWN a copy. Since I have no interest in it, I don't see any percentage in keeping it around. Even if I scanned the document into a PDF and made it public, I wouldn't put it past some of you to download the thing...and then make a call to the Seattle FBI. It goes to the shredder. Means zip to me anyway. _________________________________________________ Blevins: Some people can be cruel. That's a fact. Life is not fair. But several people, several times have called you a 'vitriole magnet.' When you put yourself out there the way you do -- you're bound to take some shots. I don't find it all that surprising. You reap what you sow -- it's a law or nature. Send out some loving kindness, Blevins, it will come back to you. Don't send any to me though, I'm not that kind of guy. MeyerLouie

Who did you get your copy of the 'Palmer Report' from? Geoffrey Gray? Curtis Eng? Tom Kaye? Keep avoiding the subject you brought up! _________________________________________________ Answer the question Blevins. I thought that document was classified. MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Maybe you didn't hear Blevins -- Janis Joplin died at 27, from drug overdose. You sure know how to pick em and hit the nail right on the head -- every time. MeyerLouie

_________________________________________________ Of course you didn't hear Georger mention that dredging has been going on for years on the Columbia. I think that's what they call selective memory. Instead of a "test," instead of re-inventing the wheel, maybe it would be better to talk to the dredging professionals there -- who have been dredging that part of the Columbia River for years and years -- and pose your questions and scenarios to them. They may already have the answers that you seek, Grasshopper. And you might get the information you seek for free as well, Grasshopper. MeyerLouie

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Cellulose ( straw) and clay are common building materials since the prehistoric. __________________________________________________ Of course, Georger, that would have to be. That means then that the twain did meet -- the money and the River -- the money was in the River. Lots of people assume right here then that the money packets must have floated naked --there was no enclosure or bag to contain them. Is that necessarily so? Maybe not. Maybe, just maybe the money packets stayed inside a well-wrapped, possibly damaged money bag for a long period of time -- submerged under water for a long period of time, floating and tumbling down the River, until it got to T-Bar -- where the worn, tattered, watered-logged, sediment-saturated bills got expunged onto the beach at T-Bar........just thinking out loud...........MeyerLouie And there is evidence of either straw or clay found in these bills? Or evidence they traveled through a dredger before being found? Or went down a river first? What 'sediment-saturated' bills do you refer to? I'm going to repeat a Great Truth here about the Tena Bar money that I still believe is accurate: The finding of the money, and the resultant investigation into that money, has raised more questions than it actually answers. MeyerLouie: No need to bold up every response. I have a really good monitor here.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Cellulose ( straw) and clay are common building materials since the prehistoric. Wherever those bills came from, it probably didn't happen in 1971, and they certainly weren't exposed to the elements for ten years. Maybe the real clue here isn't the condition of the bills, but the condition of the rubber holding them together. _________________________________________________ I take exception to every statement you made in this last paragraph. The condition of the rubber bands trumps the condition of the bills? You can't be serious! You're kidding, right? MeyerLouie _________________________________________________ I would also point out there was neither clay or straw embedded in the bill packets, as far as I know. _________________________________________________ How do you reconcile that with the information we got from Georger a few posts ago? MeyerLouie __________________________________________________ They were found under a few inches of sand. If clay particles were mixed in with the bills, it's pretty likely Kaye and his team would have found them. __________________________________________________ And, of course, if Tom Kaye says it, it must be so. MeyerLouie__________________________________________________ I have the greatest respect for both MeyerLouie's and Georger's opinions. But as some here have reminded me occasionally, (and deservedly) let's try to stay with reality and the known facts when possible.

Yes. That's what I'm saying. Cellulose ( straw) and clay are common building materials since the prehistoric. __________________________________________________ Of course, Georger, that would have to be. That means then that the twain did meet -- the money and the River -- the money was in the River. Lots of people assume right here then that the money packets must have floated naked --there was no enclosure or bag to contain them. Is that necessarily so? Maybe not. Maybe, just maybe the money packets stayed inside a well-wrapped, possibly damaged money bag for a long period of time -- submerged under water for a long period of time, floating and tumbling down the River, until it got to T-Bar -- where the worn, tattered, watered-logged, sediment-saturated bills got expunged onto the beach at T-Bar........just thinking out loud...........MeyerLouie