MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Jo, Are you alright? The last couple of sentences in your post here look pretty disheveled -- lots of misspellings too -- that's not like you. You're not yourself -- are you feeling okay? MeyerLouie

I will repeat (for once): I just think its a little strange if someone thinks Amboy is where Cooper landed, then its weird to sign on immediately to JT's search in the wrong place, ? Why waste the time? To be correct: I never said I knew where the Amboy chute find was. What I said (its in the thread) was, there were several newspaper articles following the announcement of the find, both articles had photos. Then a third article appeared with a small Google map of the general area. I know I saved the Google map and can share it again. I think I also saved the photos showing the road into the field where the chute was found, just off the edge of the road the owner was making-widening. One of the photos has the owner and one of his children in it. Problem is: when I went back later to try and find those articles with photos, I could not find them and I did a long search. I found that a bit strange. Maybe the articles were taken down? Or, maybe those articles are still out there for Snowmman or Smokin99 to find? I just don't know. I will look tomorrow for the photos if I saved them. One of those original articles (for whoever might search) is rather long - at least two pages. It not only explained the find and had several photos, it also contained the comments of several locals and an aviation historian trying to account for who might have left the chute. Let me see what I can find tomorrow or the next day. But I know I have the map and I seem to remember I sent Bruce (or someone) a copy of it long ago? ps: here's one of the maps taken straight from one of the articles. Turns out I have another map that was published which has gps coordinates on it! Do I post it too? The map attached may be one of the maps I gave Bruce ??? I think it was Bruce ??? __________________________________________________ Georger: Like Bruce said earlier, signing up for JT's search and hanging out with other Cooper sleuths is our idea of a good time. It'll be great to get into the woods again, we'll make new friends, and it'll be good exercise. Why not? That's my only motivation. I didn't necessarily believe the Amboy chute was Cooper's. There was a lot of discussion about the topic back then, so I thought it'd be just fun to drive down to Amboy and check things out. It was a good time. If you read Bruce's DZ post right before we left for Amboy, he asked if anyone knew the exact location of the Amboy chute -- he didn't know. So, I'm thinking he probably didn't have the maps either, since he didn't know the location. Right Bruce? MeyerLoue

I replied last night to your post, then I deleted it five minutes later. I decided to think about things and the main reason is because I have upcoming business with these folks. (Not the property owners where chute was found, but people who told me who they were) As I said, trust is a long-gone thing around here lately. I.E. I don't trust some of the participants. Others, I do. I have what I believe are pretty good reasons for this attitude. The only thing I was wrong about was my assumption that 'everyone in the Ariel/Amboy area who is a Cooper fan' knows where the chute was found. I found out so easily that I thought everyone knew. Now it turns out it was probably by accident anyway. This is how: While I was doing the Ariel video, one of the questions I asked several people was A) Whether they had heard of the chute found in Amboy (most said yes) and B) If they believed it belonged to Cooper (answers varied on that) So...I run into this nice couple outside. Gentleman was in his 60's, cowboy hat, black cowboy shirt, wearing a silver string tie. Wife, slightly younger and very pretty brunette. I was talking to them off-camera. They had just showed up. I asked them rather casually about the chute. The woman says they know the people whose property was dug up, and gave me their name. At the time, I didn't really think it was a big deal because I had no plans to go and see these chute people anyway. Later, I interviewed the woman for the video. She appears at the 38:53 mark. Maybe they were wrong, but both told me they were long-term residents of the area and actually knew these people. And there ARE people in the Amboy area who know where the chute was found. The family whose property was dug up also have school-age kids. I have seen some postings at Facebook from some kids on the subject, although that was a while ago and none gave the exact location. But it was obvious that it was getting around the school a bit. Understand though, I didn't really care about the location because I had no plans to try and drive down and ask to do additional digging. The business end of things: There was something special about their whole lifestyle, something almost unbelievably remarkable...so much so that I had more of an interest in that, rather than anything about the chute. It has to do with what they do for a living. In fact, I gave them my business card and I'm planning a book about them this summer. It is NOT Cooper-related, but trust me...their story is unique.

__________________________________________________ I'm still not done with this one, Blevins. You found out after 5 minutes of idle chatter with your video participants at Ariel this past November where the Amboy chute was located? That's total crap, Blevins. Bruce and I drove around Amboy for a whole day, knocking on a lot of doors, and lots of these people had lived in Amboy for years -- all were very nice and cordial and would have let us look around on their property if we had asked. Not one -- not a single Amboy resident we talked to -- knew the location of the Amboy chute. Several weren't even aware of it. Even the owner of the Ariel Tavern, Dona Elliott, didn't really know. And if anyone should know, I'd think it would be her. She thought she knew -- we went to where she said to go to find the Amboy chute (it wasn't all that far from the Ariel Tavern, as the crow flies, actually). We went, and after knocking on several doors, we got nothing. The neighbors in the vicinity that Dona directed us to -- some of them were elderly -- knew nothing about the Amboy chute. So, who am I to believe -- someone who is casually talking to people at Ariel (not Amboy, I might add), as he is shooting a video of passers by, or a couple of guys who actually went to Amboy, who actually did some research, who actually knocked on doors. I'm sure the information is out there, but it is not common knowledge, as you purport. I'm sure the FBI has that information, and others do as well. I know you're off base here, Blevins. How do I know? Because I did the actual footwork and research on this one -- and you're busted, you got caught red-handed -- confusing your assumptions with the real facts and making outlandish claims and statements that just simply aren't true. I don't expect anything different -- because this is the way you are. MeyerLouie

Blevins, Be careful or you will throw your shoulder out of place patting yourself on the back. Your proposal above dates to the night of the hijacking in 1971. That is what was done starting even before the airliner landed in Reno. You really should read up a bit on the hijacking and the Cooper case in general. You might learn something. Robert99 _________________________________________________ Robert99, thank you for saying it. I wouldn't have been so tactful. JT and Mr. H want to do conduct a search (they are both what I'd call experts at this sort of thing -- check out their resumes) and Blevins steps right in and appoints himself line manager of the whole expedition. Blevins sounds like he's the only one who knows the mountains of Western Washington. He may not realize there are some of us here who've been up in them thar hills too. Getting lost for a month in the woods does not qualify one as an expert woodsman. In fact, it qualifies one to be the exact opposite! MeyerLouie

Count me in, Jerry! Romping in the woods with Cooper sleuths is my idea of a good time. Let me know where and when. __________________________________________________ Sorry for the belated response Jerry, but you know I'll be there and assist you and Ralph in any way I can. I'm with Bruce, this is my idea of a good time too. MeyerLouie

Once I started asking around it didn't take five minutes before I found out where they discovered the chute. Maybe people are just more willing to talk to me than you perhaps. In case you didn't notice, I spoke to practically everyone at Ariel last year while making that hour-long video. It's not a Big Secret. LOL. Every real Cooper fan in Ariel and Amboy knows where it was found. Let's get something straight here: Some of you I admire for your work, your courtesy in a difficult discussion, and I actually LIKE you. Others, I wouldn't take your word that day is light and night is dark. __________________________________________________ I say bullcrap on that, Blevins. I got told by several people where they thought the Amboy chute was found, and not one of 'em panned out. Just because they say they know doesn't make it so (that's your department). How come Dona didn't even know? She thought she knew, but she didn't really know, and she's lived in the area for years. No Blevins, you attrack venom because of you, and only you. No one else is to blame. You speak without verifying, you assert without researching -- that's your trademark, and that's why your credibility is in such jeopardy. Only you are to blame for that. If the Amboy chute find is such common knowledge, then why do some of the DZ participants here not know? I can think of at least two main DZ participants who do not know the exact location of the Amboy chute find. And it's the kind of information that was probably not made public (that's what you said earlier), so tell us, Grasshopper, where does one go to get such good information? It's common knowledge, right? So everyone should know. Tell me, Grasshopper, who really knows (I am not interested anymore in talking to those who think they know)? MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Blevins: What you are saying is simply not true. You don't know what you're talking about, again. I was there. You just throw things arouind with no forethought. No problem. Thank God talk is cheap. MeyerLouie

You can find out where they found the Amboy chute by hooking up with folks at Dona Elliot's place. That whole community lives on Cooper it seems. At least part-time, especially around November. Everyone is well aware of the dollars that flow into the area via Cooper. Most of the locals know where the chute was discovered. They'll even point you to the spot where the Army camped during their search, tell you everything that happened, whose house was gone through, or their outbuildings and property, anything you want to know. Sure. They'll tell you where it was found, but it's also on private property. It's up to you to talk to the owners and take it from there. __________________________________________________ Are you sure about that Blevins? I hung out around Amboy a while back, I asked around, and I didn't find anyone who had knowledge of the exact location of the Amboy chute find. A couple of leads proved to be dead ends, and I heard a story that sounded a little fishy. If everyone knows where the Amboy chute was found, well, that's news to me. It's possible I picked the wrong day and I just didn't find the right people, but it seems to me someone should have been able to point me in the right direction -- and I talked to several folks who lived around Amboy for quite some time. Nothing panned out. I suppose I should do some more research, but I'm wondering if the exact location of the Amboy chute find was officially documented. Where is it, specifically? MeyerLouie

It's so bad that it's funny. Give us some others from time to time Blevins. Jumping from 18,000 ft on Sat with video cam, radios, data loggers and home brewed telemetry gear. Still quite cold up there even in sunny California. Got some new goggles that have a tiny color LCD screen inside that gives baro altitude, GPS derived glide ratio and other cool stuff. Can ya tell I like gadgets? 377 __________________________________________________ I can tell, 377. Hoping you have a good and safe jump this weekend. Blevins actually borrowed that horrible metaphor from the internet, he didn't make it up. Blevins, you may have better luck YouTubing on the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts -- you can get some pretty good material there -- most of the jokes were hilarious. Getting back to the case: I have been trying to find aerial photographs from 1970-1971. In particular I want historical aerial photographs of the area bordered on the north by Ariel and Lake Merwin, south by Basket Flat Road, East by Yacolt, and west by Kelly Road. Trouble is this area is mostly private land. It is not on the Gifford Pinchot National Forest, like I had hoped. If it was, then I could contact the Forest Service and get someone to help me get access to the old maps. I know the Forest Service uses aerial photos for stand exams, they are pretty good quality. I used them when I worked for the Forest Service years ago. I'm pretty sure one can get access to those old aerial photos. I think we used the USGS aerial maps for stand exams, I know the Forest Service didn't do their own aerial photos. I talked to a silviculturist in the Vancouver Office of the Gifford Pinchot National Forest last week. He suggested I try USGS-Utah, Aerial Photography. I did. Then I googled 'Farm Service Bureau', 'Historical Aerial Photography', and got into the APFO website (Aerial Photography Field Office). It looks promising. You can fill out an order form and order the aerial photos you want. In addition, they have a customer service number you can call to get help. My question: has anyone ordered historical photos from APFO or NAPP (National Aerial Photography Program -- another imagery program)? If you were successful in getting vintage photos, I'd be interested in talking with you about that. MeyerLouie

Believe it. (Have not read Tosaw's book) Why? Because the work I did was not The History of D.B. Cooper. It was The Research We Did on Another Guy. The hijacking is covered minimally. Why do you keep bringing up The Thing With the Paper Covers and then complaining about it at the same time? That makes as much sense as a cardboard T-shirt on a gerbil. __________________________________________________ Cardboard T-shirt on a gerbil? That is one of the worst metaphors I've ever heard Blevins. Of all the metaphors you could have picked....well, at least, you tried. MeyerLouie

Blevins said: I SAID I hadn't read the book yet. It wasn't a claim. It was a question. The reason I asked is because I heard that when Tosaw interviewed Tina in person that he got zip. I heard this...doesn't mean it's accurate. That's why I asked. I suppose I should read the book, yes.... _________________________________________________ Unbelievable! You didn't ask Blevins, you just went on stating your assumptions as if they were fact, once again, then you openly admit you didn't read the book. Here's the secret: If you read stuff before you speak about the stuff, it goes a long ways to promote credibility. Unbelievable! MeyerLouie

Blevins, You can't be serious about the above claims. In one word, you are WRONG. Your remarks above are like someone claiming to be a Shakespeare critic or expert without having read a single one of his works. All of the information in Tosaw's book about what Cooper did from the time all the passengers and other two flight attendants were released had to come from Tina. I have personally quoted extensively from Tosaw's book about Tina's activities, what she saw and what she did until Cooper jumped, on this thread. Tosaw's book was published prior to Himmelsbach's and is the best book on Cooper that I have personally seen. If you want to know what happened during the hijacking, forget KC, and get Tosaw's book and read it. Robert99 _________________________________________________ Oh my gosh, Blevins spoke before having done any research? What a shock! MeyerLouie

some would say obsessive compulsive, just for starter. We have been through enough of these suspect handlers to know, there arrives a point where things turn bitter. Anything can happen. One handler even died! Auto accident. Maybe he was preoccupied and thinking about the Cooper case. Who knows. Geoff and I have discussed a little of the syndrome and those in it. That includes our resident handlers. One thing I have noticed is, these handlers arrive at a point (pretty quickly) where they see themselves as experts on the Cooper case, and in charge of the Cooper case. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They wave off all caution and act in front of the whole world like they are .... Alexander(ess) the Great? Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. The 'evidence' in the case is abstract enough. Are you still doing some math as a hobby? G. __________________________________________________ It's been a while since I've done math for a hobby, although teaching it has always been fun. Working with college kids keeps you on your toes. MeyerLouie Can you say what level math you teach ? Its no biggie if you dont want to - I'm working on Planck's revision of Blotzmann equations tonight for a paper. I haven't worked with this stuff for years and am in - deep. Thank God for Jstor and the internet! This younger generation wants each and every step, with proofs! Demanding audience but glad for their enthusiasm! __________________________________________________ Georger: Planck, one smart guy. Let's see what you got....PM ml. MeyerLouie

some would say obsessive compulsive, just for starter. We have been through enough of these suspect handlers to know, there arrives a point where things turn bitter. Anything can happen. One handler even died! Auto accident. Maybe he was preoccupied and thinking about the Cooper case. Who knows. Geoff and I have discussed a little of the syndrome and those in it. That includes our resident handlers. One thing I have noticed is, these handlers arrive at a point (pretty quickly) where they see themselves as experts on the Cooper case, and in charge of the Cooper case. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They wave off all caution and act in front of the whole world like they are .... Alexander(ess) the Great? Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. The 'evidence' in the case is abstract enough. Are you still doing some math as a hobby? G. __________________________________________________ Georger, Speaking of 10 foot poles, I've got an old girlfriend with marks all over her neck because of guys touching her with 10-foot poles (Ha! Did you get that one, Blevins?). I don't do math as a hobby much, as it is my living. But it's what I love to do. I've taught your standard college curriculum -- lately, mostly statistics and trigonometry (the call it precalculus now). But I've taught all the calculus courses (1,2,3,4) which includes multi-variable calc, and I taught some differential equations and finite math a while back. I'm staying pretty close to it, still. MeyerLouie

If the bag was with the money, how did 3 bundles get out if the bag and the can before it sank, again? should have already been full of water as the river started to rise? way before it had a chance to pop up? _________________________________________________ Good question, one worth thinking about -- and I do ...... I'm not saying I support the milk can theory, but I don't find it any more untenable than the "unnatural means" theory -- whatever that means, and which completely ignores the tattered and worn condition of the bills. MeyerLouie

some would say obsessive compulsive, just for starter. We have been through enough of these suspect handlers to know, there arrives a point where things turn bitter. Anything can happen. One handler even died! Auto accident. Maybe he was preoccupied and thinking about the Cooper case. Who knows. Geoff and I have discussed a little of the syndrome and those in it. That includes our resident handlers. One thing I have noticed is, these handlers arrive at a point (pretty quickly) where they see themselves as experts on the Cooper case, and in charge of the Cooper case. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad. They wave off all caution and act in front of the whole world like they are .... Alexander(ess) the Great? Personally I wouldn't touch that stuff with a ten foot pole. The 'evidence' in the case is abstract enough. Are you still doing some math as a hobby? G. __________________________________________________ It's been a while since I've done math for a hobby, although teaching it has always been fun. Working with college kids keeps you on your toes. MeyerLouie

__________________________________________________ Okay..... BK may be really off on that one, but is he the only one? We can't even get the straight story on the parachutes themselves -- the "Cossey scandal" still leaves me confused. What's the real story? Who really packed and delivered the parachutes, and what's the real deal with the dummy chute, and which two (it was two, right?) chutes did Cooper actually take? I've heard lots of things on this issue, and maybe I need to do my own research on it. Meyer Louie

__________________________________________________ Okay, I hear ya, BK is not necessarily the most reputatble guy. But your list of BK's sins all seem harmless. He may have lied, he may have deceived, he may have made outlandish claims, but how has he really hurt anybody? All those things on that list sound pretty harmless to me. So what? I've heard a couple of other theories around here that don't have much more credibility than BK's claims, assumptions, and deceptions. If I didn't know better, I'd say you have a personal vendetta against Bob Knoss. By the way, if the money was already in a moneybag, it seems to me the bills would have survived just fine in a milk can, submerged under water, for an extended period of time. MeyerLouie

Well, as far as investigating KC or the Cooper case, I don't mind discussing some points, but I have moved on for the most part. You are right in stating that a majority of the evidence against KC is circumstantial. You know how it is. Some New York PI tosses you a job, and you go out there and do the best you can. Of course, the evidence comes down to a lot more than a toupee, a possible ID on a tie tack, and some unexplained money. Maybe it's like Buddy Levy said on Decoded: 'When you take everything together, can it ALL be coincidence?' Try to remember something. I cannot take full responsibility for the FBI report that was done on KC. This is because it was the final result from several different people and a couple of organizations, not just yours truly. Marisa Kagan, for example, who broke through Geestman's lies as easily as a hot knife cuts through butter. There are some certain things established on Christiansen, and others not so well established. But when you cut to the chase on him, the one thing I am 100% sure of is that Bernie Geestman and his ex-wife know the truth on Christiansen (and their possible involvement) one way or another. Something was going on in Kenny's life between the time he stopped adding to his little collection of clippings (Summer 1971) and the following November in 1972. (Had gone through x5 yearly income in cash) What that something IS remains the question. Is it really possible that the Geestmans were in collusion with Kenny and kept the whole thing a secret for decades? I don't know for sure. Sometimes I've wondered. Sometimes you have to look at the little things. Like Bernie turning white as a frickin' sheet the moment he heard the phrase 'Cooper case' that morning on his front porch. Or when his ex-wife, after months of denials, finally admits that Kenny and her husband went missing the week of the crime. Or maybe it was when Helen Jones and her daughter testified to the same thing. There are just too many witnesses, and too many lies that have been broken to say that NOTHING happened with these two. And whatever it was, the end result was money for everyone involved. It's been suggested they robbed a bank, yet no one in this scenario has the slightest hint of a criminal record. It's been said that maybe KC and Geestman had some weird sex thing going, but the evidence doesn't show that, and neither does it explain the spending afterward. One of the biggest things that made me wonder about these folks was the way that they went on the defensive right away. In other words, instead of laughing me off their property, they would begin pointing fingers at each other as being involved in the hijacking. Geestman did this in his first interview, and Mrs. Geestman did the same thing in hers, although she tried to keep Kenny's name out of the whole thing for a long time. She would name other people, but these people were checked out by Porteous and none of them panned out. One time, I did an exercise where I made some educated guesses on how the whole thing went down...IF...they were involved. The end result was that I figured it was not Kenny, but Bernie Geestman who was the actual instigator. It was hard for me to imagine Kenny thinking up the idea all on his own. Geestman was insistent in saying that the year of the hijacking he was gone for Foss Tugs ten or eleven months out of that year. Yet Foss said absolutely not. We know Kenny lent Geestman's sister $5,000, and despite his denials, we know Geestman was the go-between on the money. We know Kenny got his Bonney Lake house from a couple where Geestman served as the Best Man at their wedding, yet Geestman claimed no knowledge on how Kenny got the house. Wherever you find Kenny spending or doing, there you also find Mr Geestman. And there you also find his lies. When people lie to you, the first thing you ask yourself is this: What would motivate them to lie? What have they to gain or lose by lying? As I've said before, this is often where the truth resides. I think we did a pretty good job with the resources we had investigating Christiansen, although we couldn't prove he was Cooper. The one good thing that came out is that we were able to provide enough information that if someone in the future ever decides to check it all out, they might be able to either confirm him as Cooper, or eliminate him once and for all. And that's good enough for me.

Neither. Nobody knows for sure. YOU be the judge. I thought we were basically finished talking about Kenny...and yet you bring him up again. Fine. Here's the final report on him...again. As I've said before, there is a certain amount of witness testimony and evidence that MAY lead to the idea KC was involved. Do I know for sure? Not a chance. I've recently found out (through her daughter and grandsons) that the witness known as 'Dawn J' (Bernie Geestman's sister) is now living full-time with relatives. I withheld her full name for years because she lived alone. I've been given permission to reveal her name publicly: Dawn J. Andrusko, of Fox Island, WA. This very nice lady (picture attached) freely admitted to receiving a $5,000 cash loan in April 1972 from Christiansen, said she and some of her friends thought Christiansen might be the hijacker from the start, (but had trouble believing it because he was such a nice guy) ID'd the tie tack as one she had seen Christiansen wear occasionally, said he owned a toupee but she never saw him with it again after November 71, among other things. She stood up against her brother Bernie, verifying all this testimony to Marisa Kagan at History Channel, but said she didn't want to appear on TV against her brother. She used the money to put a down payment on a house in Buckley, WA. At the time, she and her four kids were living with the Geestmans. Her brother was the go-between for the money, and later the purchase of Christiansen's house. She had recently moved to WA, after getting a divorce in Minnesota. Her most famous quote from the interview, where she comments about Christiansen: __________________________________________________ Circumstantial Blevins, it's all circumstantial -- the money, the tie, the toupee. Your circumstantial means inconsequential. What does it all prove? Absolutely nothing. There are numerous ways to come into money, the tie just might coincidentally bear a resemblance, and how does the toupee have much to do with anything signifant here? You've been on a big fishing trip, you've used the wrong bait, and you've come home empty handed -- you got skunked. Admit it -- so you can get on with your life. MeyerLouie

The only mention EVER made involving a member of the crew in all of these yrs - was made by BK. NO ONE else! Now in my Off my Rocker mode I might bite into any thing! BK never knew Duane Weber, he just WISHES he had. Where the things come from inside of BK's mind are needless to say MIND BOGGLING! Bruce would claim MIND CONTROL! Was BK involved as he claimed or did he take an article with a picture of man he had met and connect it to a group in the Complex who talked about jumping and skydiving. Something in BK's mind connect the picture of Weber with Cooper and with skydiving. 1. He did NOT know Duane Weber? 2. So far no one has proved Weber was Cooper. Now that he have 1 & 2 out of the way - Why does BK associate his memories with a government planned activity. 1. Why is he so fixated on Weber as Cooper? 2. Why is he fixated on conspiracy or government sanctioned activity? 3. Does he have buried within his mind knowledge of the crime? If so perhaps it is buried very deeply.. 4. If number 3 is true - might explain why he hitched a ride on Weber, but how does one find that deep seated memory within his mind? 5. Did he actually witness something as a young man - that yrs later he attached to Cooper & a planned crime? 6. Perhaps what he witnessed was just a bunch of guys in the complex out doing a little skyjump planning on the week-end. 7. Could he have taken this harmless seed - and store it away? 8. Did the story about Weber in the US News and World reports in 2000 caused this man (who already had issues) to suddenly believe the weekend outing of others living in his complex were part of a conspiracy. 9. He had problems that existed before he contacted me. The story about Weber fueled false memories. Each conversation became more detailed on his end - and then 3 months laters later he would present names or something I baited him with in a prior conversation as part of HIS memory. 10. Protect and DO NO HARM! I should have realized he had a problem and walked away. I didn't just like you guys PUT up with me! 11. One could draw a paralled between Jo & Knoss - but please do NOT. Jo has told her story the same since day one and explored Duane's actions and what he said during our life time together and dug into his past. Jo lived with this man. 12. What was buried with in the mind of Knoss? WHY did Knoss fabricate the record keeping and contoct the story about Duane? 13. Did BK ever actually meet Duane Weber? The image of Weber is buried within his mind but Duane did live in the area for about 6 weeks. Perhaps - A bar, a restaurant or have lived in the same complex? 14. Knoss sees Weber's face in the U.S. News and world reports and it is a story about skyjacking.15. Knoss remembers these guys who lived in his complex jumping - perhaps he envied them. 16. His mind starts to associate the picture in the article with the activies at the complex he lived in. 17. He had an emotional probem to begin with and he fixated on Weber as the jumper! Please Knoss do NOT reply to this POST - leave it be! Do NOT even acknowledge it - go on with your life or what is left of it. Set yourself FREE! You fed off of our contacts - you made associations where there were none. Yes, U did fabricate a lot. The fabrications where the clues I explored - and they DID not PAN out, but your mind would NOT let it go! 1. You met Weber briefly in 1966 2. Some jumpers live in the complex. 3. You see an article with Weber's picture in 2000. Then with you connecting DOTS that did NOT connect U made lives pretty miserable for the Co-pilot and his family. Do one thing RIGHT! Send a letter of apology to the Co-pilot explaining how and why you came to your conclusions and the reasons for your accusation against him. Hopefully now U will see what transformed within your mind. _________________________________________________ I'm sorry Jo, but I just don't see all the evil that Bob Knoss is supposed to possess. I've been here a while, and I just haven't seen the sinister side of this guy. Maybe it's there, maybe not. Maybe he's just a big teddy bear. Maybe he's evil. Maybe not. Sorry, I just haven't seen it. He's always been nice and respectful to me in my correspondence with him. So what if he has a theory that sounds completely crazy? He has just as much right to his theory as you and Blevins have to yours. Neither you nor Blevins have coughed up one shred of proof in defense of your theories. Neither has BK, but how is he all that different from what we've gotten from, say, Blevins? I haven't gone over to the conspiracy theory side of things -- yet anyway (as Dr. Evil would say -- as he raises his little pinky), but who's to say BK's theory is any more untenable than anybody else's theory around here? Whose to say the DBC hijacking wasn't a government-sponsored special operation to improve airline safety? What about Jake from Walla Walla that Geoff Gray wrote about? Far fetched? Not any more than some of the other theories. Hijackers always leave evidence, they always get caught -- until Cooper came along. Whose to say he didn't get some government-sponsored help on the ground? Nobody has come along to disprove it. Notice how evidence has gotten lost and/or compromised over the years. Notice how the FBI has stonewalled so many for so long. Notice how Cooper just simply vanished without a trace, never to be seen or heard from again. Notice all of the airline safety rules, regulations, and procedures that got implemented as a result of the DBC hijacking. How about that "Cooper Vane"? Heck, they even named it after the guy. Back in the early 70's there were so many hijackings, it was pathetic. Folks back East weren't necessarily paying attention to it all, but we out West were. It seemed to me that there was great pressure on the government, by some groups, to deal with the hijackings and resolve the crisis asap. Heck, even Native Americans were hijackiing airplanes back then -- "Where do you want to go?" "Oklahoma!" he said. See Blevins, where's a native guy going to hijack an airplane to? Cuba's out. The joke loses its spontaneity if you have to explain it. Whose to say the government wasn't desperate enough to go Special Ops on this? It's not like they've never done something like this before. And you had that paranoid crook, the ultimate obstructor of justice, Richard Nixon, in the White House. Far fetched? Maybe. Maybe not. Whose to say BK's theory is anymore far-fetched than some of the other theories weve heard around here? In any event, he's got just as much right to his theory as anyone else. His theory is more plausible than Blevin's, if you take into account the credibility factor (or lack thereof). If BK violated your privacy, integrity, or rights, then go through the proper channels to get your justice. If not, then you got fifty lashes with a wet noodle because of his poor choice of words or because of the harmless, maybe even despicable, non-criminal acts he committed. So what if he said and did some bizarre things. So what if he has issues. Who doesn't? If he was harmless, for the most part, why not just ignore him and go your merry way? MeyerLouie

QuoteFor the record, I don't believe the Cooper hijacking was a government-sponsored event to force changes to airline safety rules. (Done with the tacit approval of President Richard Nixon) Without evidence, this has to go into the realm of conspiracy theories like these: The Moon Landings Were Faked Aliens Recovered At Roswell, NM North America was discovered by the Knights Templar The Port Chicago Disaster in 1944 was actually a nuclear test. And finally: Ken Christiansen is NOT DB Cooper. Actually, Ken Christiansen was the leader of a religious cult. He claimed that when you die, your soul goes to a crawl space in Buckley, Washington. Fact of fiction? You be the judge. MeyerLouie

Perhaps he didn't delete it Jo. Maybe it "poofed" In your riddle storm, you asked if Cooper really existed. The answer is yes. I'm positive he did. The story that he was a fictional person made up by a conspiring crew doesnt hold water. 377 __________________________________________________ I've heard DBC existed, he was existential. How do I know this? Because wherever he went, there he was. After 41 years, we've entered a new dimension of time and space, a place we call "the bizarre world of the beserk", aka the world of the "nebulously nefarious." It's all "up in the air," a "fly by night" experience. I continue to be confused, but at least now I'm confused at a higher level and about more important things. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. It's the truth. Is it over yet....? That was my impression of Bob Knoss. A pathetic attempt, no doubt, but you know what they say -- imitation is the highest form of flattery. Reaching 70 is a major milestone in life, a major achievement. Happy birthday Bob, and congratulations. May the best of your yesterdays be the worst of your tomorrows. MeyerLouie

Robert replies: ***'The main motivator at Cooperland DZ is competition. Who did it? Will I be the one to discover the truth? How can I discredit everyone else's claims? __________________________________________________ Competition is the main motivator here? Don't think so Blevins. It doesn't feel like a contest here. Actually, it is supposed to be individuals working together -- pooling their talents, skills, and expertise -- to help solve one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in American history. To even say it's a competition here says a lot about you, the person. I think for you, competition actually means feeling threatened -- and maybe that's why you are defensive and hyper-vigilante so much of the time. I don't think anybody here is in competition with you, or feels threatened by you and your book, because you have done so much to help solve the case (that's your implication in the previous post -- a bit arrogant, don't ya think?). You wrote a nice book, I enjoyed the anecdotes and stories about the Subaru, Twisp, WA, and the Methow Valley, but the circumstantial chain of events you laid out is just that -- circumstantial evidence that simply does not prove KC was DBC. MeyerLouie