cloud9

BULL SHIT! you listen to the likes of hand gun control, way inflated figure! I'd tell them that we're going to catch the murdering bastard and execute him. But of course you'd tell them that would be a horrible thing to do, maybe we should just yell at him a little, give him a time out to think about what he's done. The beauty of a free society is you don't have to need something it doesn't have to be a neccessity. If your law abiding and you want something you can have it. Even guns. Now for those of you that don't live in a free society. Its because you let your government take your guns!!!

I've got a Hornet 150 loaded at about 1.4 I find its a great canopy. It has a lot of flare and will pop you up on landing. You can really flare it and it doesn't seem to want to bow tie which means you can stay with it longer and land really soft without having to run out the landings. You can get a decent surf if you want, or you can even sink it in. It has quite a bit more glide then the Sabre and turns are quick, but no oversteer. The canopy will dive in a hard turn but the recovery ark is fairly short. Openings are soft, Ive propacked and psycho packed and had good openings either way. I psycho pack all the time now, its just easier. An all around great canopy.

When I first started jumping it was every 60 days so going to 120 was a real blessing. I do think the FAA is worried about pencil packing. Anyone who doesn't think this is going on, has their head in the sand. Its quite common, so many jumpers are already going 240 days. With that in mind I'm not sure that extending the period would be such a great idea. If you really think about it, every 3 months you give your rig up for a few days at the most and have all your safety equipment checked for about $40, is that so unreasonable?

Don't know any Francis, but if you were talking to me. I posted just as a little reminder as to why you have to wait. There are lots of folks with orders in. I don't know the serial number on mine, I never asked but then again its not due in until the middle of March. So I wait and borrow or rent until then. Good luck with yours hope it comes in on time, as long as it doesn't bump anyone else

Well Honestly I don't mean you any ill will, but I would sure be pissed if they moved yours up in front of mine. I don't think you want your rig any worse then I want mine. Also there are a lot of others just on this forum alone that have ordered wings. So think about what your asking for! All of us to take a back seat because you want your rig. By the way sometimes they do come in a week early I'm told. They try to leave a little cushion in the delivery time. So guess you'll just have to bear with it like the rest of us

I've been reading about this sort of thing a lot lately. While I can understand a newer jumpers perspective (i only have 170 jumps) I think sometimes we don't try to understand the experienced RW jumper. What I mean is this. I'm not a great golfer but I have about a 12 handicap its taken me a long time and a lot of practice to get there. Sometimes I don't mind playing a round with a high handicapper but there are days when I want to play with folks that can hit the ball. Can you immagine taking years to lean to play tennis and then playing every weekend with someone that can't return a serve? RW is no different it takes a bunch of skydives to learn those skills and there are times when those folks want to challenge their skills and jump with people that can turn some points. I respect that and am thakfull when I get invited on a dive with them so I can learn more and improve my skills. Now once your invited and you don't lie about your skill level then they shouldn't get mad about a missed point or a funneled exit!

So anyone have an answer to the question?

What a psycho!

I can't verify the accuracy of this, I recieved it in the mail but thought it was interesting! What a difference 14 Years Makes Anyone remember this?? It was 1987! At a lecture the other day they played an old news video of Lt. Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan Administration. There was Ollie in front of God and country getting the third degree, but what he said was stunning! He was being drilled by some senator; "Did you not recently spend close to $60,000 for a home security system?" Ollie replied, "Yes, I did, Sir." The senator continued, trying to get a laugh out of the audience," Isn't that just a little excessive?" "No, sir," continued Ollie. "No? And why not?" the senator asked. "Because the lives of my family and I were threatened, sir" "Threatened? By whom?" the senator questioned. "By a terrorist, sir" Ollie answered. "Terrorist? What terrorist could possibly scare you that much?" "His name is Osama bin Laden, sir" Ollie replied. At this point the senator tried to repeat the name, but couldn't pronounce it, which most people back then probably couldn't. A couple of people laughed at the attempt. Then the senator continued. "Why are you so afraid of this man?" "Because, sir, he is the most evil person alive that I know of," Ollie answered. "And what do you recommend we do about him?" asked the senator. "Well, sir, if it was up to me, I would recommend that an assassin team be formed to eliminate him and his men from the face of the earth." The senator disagreed with this approach, and that was all that was shown of the clip. (If anyone is interested, the senator was none other than Al Gore.)

Hey Mark let me give you a little personal history and it may help you. I had 96 jumps from 1975 to 1976. Most were on round canopies. I had about 20 jumps on a Strato Star a 5 cell square. I just started jumping again in March 2001. I put 3 jumps on a Manta 288, then put two jumps on a Falcon 265. They both sucked so I bought my own gear. A Triathlon 175 loaded at a 1.25 I had no problems at all. The canopy was very forgiving and yet very fun to fly. I could sink it in on a tight spot, or let it fly on a long spot. It had great openings, turn fast enough to be fun and I stood up nearly all my landings even on the no wind days. I'm a pretty average person, I pick things up fairly quick but I'm by no means one of those folks that does something once and is a pro thereafter. So with that in mind I would never tell a person what to do in canopy choice and especially wing loading, but I hope this might help you make an informed decision. I have since downsized to a hornet 150 and am very happy with that canopy too. But I really did love my triathlon. Larry

Hey Steve I don't know your wing loading so I can't say about the 170 but I can tell you the comparison. The Hornet opens softer then the sabre. The sabre tends to really spank you every now and then. The Hornet really don't. The Hornet has a better glide ratio then the sabre so its better on the long spots. It has a lot more flare on landing, and it flys longer which means you don't have to run out those landings as much. I think its superior to the sabre. Of course this is with the original Sabre not the Sabre2. Your experience level should allow you to safely jump this canopy at a light wing loading.

Agreed, I jump a Hornet loaded at about 1.4. I'm sure at a 1.1 wing loading it would be a great beginner canopy and for that matter for a long while. They open nice and soft, they turn quick but not overly so, have good glide for the long spots, and will surf rather nice if you care to give it a try, and have plenty of flare for landing. You'll really like it.

I can tell you from experience that the canopy manufacturer's are not overly concerned with jump numbers. A guy that I jump with that had in the neighborhood of 250 jumps and was jumping a Sabre 170 bought a Xaos 108 from precision at the 50 percent off sale. He is a good canopy pilot for his jump numbers and a great guy, fun to jump with and very safty minded, but still they sold him a canopy at those jump numbers allowing him to downsize from a 170 square to a 108 cross braced canopy. I admit I was really worried but, So far he has done well although a couple of weekends ago ( I wasn't there ) I was told he missed being injured or killed by about 6 inches. This was told to me by a couple of people with several thousand jumps that witnessed his landing. This is a fairly conservitive guy. He is intelligent, and flys like I said well for his jump numbers. But He told them at precision he wanted something with more lift on landing then a stiletto 120 and they recomended the Xaos 108 he loads it about 1.65. Like I said so far he is doing ok and I hope he continues to do ok, but the thought really bothers me. Another member of our DZ bought one at the same time. He has over 500 jumps and I thought a little better prepared. But hey I only have a 170 jumps myself and am not trying to judge anyone. I just don't want to see anyone injured.

Well said Lisa. The thing that amazes me is that most of the people that want to down size like that have no desire to push the canopy. What I mean is they will not use riser turns, they will not hook turn and they want stand up landings that they don't have to run out. With that in mind they start looking at crossbraced canopies. Its really unreal to me. I see all the time people on the DZ that start talking and get nervous when the wind dies down to zero. Some even quit for the day if the wind dies. Only a very small percent of skydivers will ever use the performance of a Ultra high performance canopy. So folks start thinking about, do you want nice soft standup landings even on no wind days on most of your jumps? If so you'll probably never need anything more then a Triathlon, Sabre/2, Hornet, Safire, Spector, Cobalt or something in that class your whole life to really enjoy the sport.

Well I hate to interject when I don't do it myself but, A friend of mine (a camera flyer) at our DZ jumps a Stiletto 120 and always Psycho packs it. He has great openings so I've seen it done many times. Also on this forum Jonno5 has a stiletto 135 and I'm not positive but I'm fairly sure he psycho packs it with great results. How about it Jonno are you out there? I psycho pack my Hornet 150 and really like the way it opens. So like I've said the guys at my DZ that psycho pack stiletto's are very pleased with the way it opens.

I put about 50 jumps on a triathlon loaded at about 1.25 I really liked it. I had nice soft standup landings most of the time. I could sink it in in breaks and still land it fairly soft. I started with that canopy at about 100 jumps. I found it fairly easy to fly and control. I found it fairly docile at that wing loading. However I jumped a 150 triathlon loaded at over 1.35 and really didn't like it as much at that loading. I found it didn't land as well. So I went to a Hornet.

well Jason unless your point is just pulling the handles I don't see it. I mean you could put a wuffo in a harness and have them cutaway 500 times. They would have more experience in the actual pulling of the handles then most skydiviers, but not in how to handle a malfuntion. You could easly teach a Chimp to just pull the handles. That's the easy part. The hard part is knowing what type of malfunction you have and when to pull the handles. Michele was a good example. Having read her post, she had no idea what type of malfunction she had. (no offense Michele you did well for your experience level) would someone with 2000 jumps even had chopped that main? They would have known what was wrong with it, and would have known if a reserve ride was neccessary. There is a lot more to a cutaway then just pulling handles. I've had two, and from experience I can tell you the easy part was pulling the handles. My second mal I broke both steering lines. With my limited experience at the time I thought I broke a lot more lines then that. After I got on the ground I was surprised to find only the two steering lines broke. With the cascades it looked like a lot of lines up there trailing behind my canopy. Someone with 2000 jumps may have been able to land that canopy and would not have even chopped. You will also find that many a student has chopped a good main for some strange reasons. So I still say experience has a huge advantage, but of course that's just an oppinion and who's to say whats right or wrong

I would be inclined to disagree with this on several fronts. A person with 2000 jumps has seen line twist, off heading openings, maybe had a brake come unstowed and has flown his canopy in all sorts of conditions. He most likely has had a cutaway too, the odds are you would, but there are some out there that haven't. The person with 20 jumps my not have even been in a hard turn yet. I would think the person with 2000 jumps would have a huge advantage over a low time jumper.

Ok here's one I've been curious about and have asked around. I've got many different answers but none from anyone that did anything other then guess. How fast do you get under a canopy during a swoop? I mean like the fastest speed right before the corner or where ever that may occur? Also has anyone ever used a radar gun or some kind of speed indicater to verify the speed? Now I know its going to be different at different wing loadings and with different canopies but I've heard anything from 55 mph to over 100 mph. So does anyone know whats closer to right?

Skydiving is all about risk management. There are many ways to manage the risks involved. Most of them brought up in this thread. Sometimes the best way to manage a risk is to eliminate it. Some times its equipment or just a thought process. A freeflyer may make sure he/she has a freefly friendly rig or maybe they jump a cobalt which is supposed to be able to be deployed at greater speeds. A low time jumper uses larger canopies and doesn't turn low, an older jumper may use a larger canopy or reserve. A low time jumper stays away from big ways. Some folks wear a dytter or even two altimeters. Some a full face helmet. Some folks elect not to jump under certain circumstances that other people are not even bothered by. As you can see not everyone uses all of the equipment available, its risk management. Some folks use a cypress. I have one in my rig, but have jumped many times without one. Its one of the risk management tools I use. I would not want to force someone to use one, anymore then I would want to force people to use the safty equipment above. It is and should be personal choice. where would we draw the line? Everyone has to jump a 200 sq.ft. canopy main and reserve cause its safer. No swoops to dangerous. No bigways, not more then 3 freeflyers, everyone in a full face helmet. Two altimeters and a dytter. Everyone type 8 risers with big rings the list goes on and on. who makes the decision? It must remain personal choice.

Born Camden N.J. Live S.W. Louisiana Home DZ Ground Rush, Beaumont, TX First Jump Fountain, N.C. 1975 which I understand is no longer there.

I doubt it, as the lines are not colored. Just the tabs on the canopy. I don't see how that could cause any extra wear.

If you haven't done so, check your steering lines. Its possible that one is twisted up a bit. When you release the brakes it gives just enough slack to fly you straight.

Hey Magic I dont know what horror stories youv'e heard but my hornet 150 opens sweet all the time. Good luck with your new rig! Lisa what a steal, I take that to mean you finally got back in the air, super hope that back holds up for you. I think you'll be surprised. I had a pretty hard opening on a Sabre after my surgery and I made out ok. I mean it hurt like hell and I don't jump Sabre's anymore but I walked away. Good luck with your new canopy and newly fused disc!

Thanks for the replys guys. I did find at the precision site, that a 6" extension is recomended. This brings up another question. Why is it so important to have the bridle ring contact the bag gommet? Is it just to keep from burning the frabric on top of the canopy?