JamieCooper

visual and chemical tests would make this an easy identification. plus, there are some advantages to dealing with a ground up mixture of a thing; makes assays easier (in bulk). Harold and Pat Ingram described 'decayed material' being in the vicinity of the found money. So obviously they probed and inspected the area where the bundles were pulled from and very likely they were observing decayed money or perhaps a combination of decayed cotton fibres and some biological material. The group Brian pulled out was wet. Harold and Pat Ingram are the parents of the boy who found the money right? are you basing this notion that the mush might have been cotton fibres and/or biological from their opinions? ,photos? or some kind of tests?

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills. In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong. The $5800 quoted by the FBI is based on 290 unique serial numbers identified by the FBI. The original list was updated but is classified, but added at least 30 more serial numbers, possibly more. When Brian turned his fragments over to the auction company the restorationist there was able to identify somewhere between 12-15 more serial numbers not previously counted. (Brian could elaborate on this). The insurance company was able to add more serial numbers not originally counted; their list is classified. All of the above in addition to frags collected and not collected, which may or may not represented unique serial nos. not counted. Add to that the biodegraded 'mush' at the site which represents who knows how many bills not accounted for. All of the above is actual physical evidence. can we be sure the mush would be decomposed bills?

Did you read what Georger wrote about the total mass? He said that by all accounts it was at least twice that, but the $5800 was the amount that was what could be pieced together into recognizable bills. In any case, the reason i posted that bit was to show there is a way the money could get there without human intervention. Jo had claimed it was impossible. That's clearly wrong. Okay. Twice that amount. That still leaves a whopping 94 packages of twenty-dollar bills unaccounted for out of a hundred packs. Without dredging being the means of how the money ended up there, then you still have to believe that six bundles (or so) managed to land together at the same exact spot on the riverbank. And if they floated down the river in separate packs, this is a tough sell. And if they floated down the river together in the canvas bag...it's STILL a tough sell, because if most of it arrived there together, you have to ask where the other 94 packs went. I also wonder what the chances are that the found bills (after dredging) would somehow end up within a few inches of the surface. Didn't somebody say the dredge results were spread along the beach after they were pulled from the river and dumped? Wonder why no one saw a bill then, if they were so close to the surface? I'm not challenging your theory. It's a question, really. Truth is, I don't have the answer either. twice the amount is pure speculation. an educated guess is still just a guess. fragments the size of a quarter? whose to say some weren't from the same bills? I agree some have a preconceived idea of what happened including death in the river, and allow their personal theory to justify fudging facts. decomposed mass? no one knows how much was there. Blevins theory could be dead on correct! no way to prove it though. my biggest problems with the KC theory are his height, eye color, and probability that he should have been recognized by industry peers. also the idea that it was coordinated with accomplices on the ground is really hard to swallow. it actually goes too far into improbability. while my "theory" involving my father has it's problems, they are easily explainable in a plausible manner, for example the age estimates are simply that, guesses. eye color, not so much a guess. height? usually easier to guess than age or blood type for that matter. I'm frequently able to pass for being in my 20's and I'm in my 40's. this happens more often than not by the way. when My 22 year old daughter introduces me to people as her father, they always call us liars, even when other verify our relationship. my father could have passed for being in his 40's at the time easily. especially if he suggested he was older than he was on purpose. for example used dated expressions...ect. biggest problems with Jo's theory. she remembers the event too clearly given the relevance at the time it happened. why would her mind pick out and store away DW tossing a paper bag with unknown contents into the river? and even if the memory is accurate, how does that make the leap from simply a paper bag to being at least 3 bundles of money thats found at Tena bar? add to this her overzealous proclamations and flat out attacks to defend this stance and the whole story ends up hinging on a deathbed confession by a man whose mental state wouldn't be reliable enough to be accepted in a legal transaction.

dredging is also human intervention

I think that these are sometimes false recall where you have seen pictures/heard discussions and your mind fills in the gaps I was about 5 at the time I asked them about it. There was one photo of it in our house - with me as a baby on the carpet and with only the carpet and part of a coffee table and part of a chair in the background - but it was in black and white and I described both colours and things that were not visible in the picture, accurately. I can't imagine that something as banal as the decor of a furnished rental aprtment sitting room would have been a subject for much conversation some years later. my pre-age one memories are different. theres kind of a pinkish haze to them. I'm somewhere where its dark and light at the same time then it's like I switch places and I'm looking out the window of a car while Delta dawn plays on the radio. the sun is darting and sort of playing hide and seek with me behind the leaves of a tree, it makes me smile, then my mother says something, I notice the roof of the car looks tan with lots of little holes, and it had a chrome speaker between the back seats with a impala logo. I can see it from a mirror on the sun visor. I think my mother adjusted to to block the sun. later my mother explained that she sold that car before my first birthday. then I have another memory of waking up in the car at night. theres a chain link fence and a series of big lights behind it. much brighter than street lights. we drive on a bridge over a waterfall. when I asked my mother about it in my 20's, she said it was power plant where we met my father to pick him up. but the strange thing is both of these memories have the same pinkish almost Orange overcast. maybe these kind of memories are where the term "rose colored glasses" comes from? now here is the funny part. after posting this I googled the song title "Delta Dawn". according to Wikipedia, The first recording of "Delta Dawn" was made by the song's composer Alex Harvey for his eponymous album released in November 1971. I would have been a few months over a year old then. lol I couldn't have been less than a year old. I was born in 1970. coincidence that the song in the memory is from November of 1971? WTF?

first of all, noone, is "no" "one" as in nobody. how old was I? thats a good question? it may even be more than one conversation condensed into one in my memory. I didn't really understand even what the conversation was about at the time so I don't remember all of it. and of what I do remember it's mostly more of a general meaning more than exact phrases. I remember some phrases like I posted and even more but is not in a sequential order and some parts are hazy. because thats how real memories are! this is also why I wanted to say what I remembered before going back and reading all the older posts. so my memories wouldn't be tainted and possibly influenced by what I read. in the future I suggest this forum take that into consideration. get the story before you tell them to read all the other posts. otherwise it's like youre handing a witness the casefile to read before getting a statement from them as to what they saw.

theres just no way of proving how the money got to Tena Bar or how long it was there. way too many variables and possibilities to narrow it down with current technology. I agree with oranges post about the unreliability of memory however. I don't think these studies took into account the priority factor. for example. lets say 100 women say hi to me in a single night and introduce themselves. will I remember all of their names? in most cases I don't remember any of their names. but if one of them seems like she may try to kill me later, or really stands out for a positive reason, I'm way more likely to remember her. even more so if someone I know points her out. so yes, our memories are less reliable than is commonly thought in general but also at times better depending on priority as well. this is a built in survival skill that is exploited all the time in advertising. I'll give another example but one possibly connected to the DB Cooper case. I don't know what job position my father went to seattle for, only that my mother said he went there for a job at Boeing. another would be the "Billy Volks" murder. his actual name was "Willie Vocks" which wasn't as important to me as my father having been a suspect in that case, and having been cleared of the charges. I remember my mother saying the sheriff did it also, but not much else. only the prioritized key info. the rest wasn't as important to me so I didn't encode and store it away.

There...I fixed it for you. strange, I was under the impression the Tena bar find was in 1980? has there been any other physical (tangible) evidence verified since that I'm not aware of?

I may be going out on a limb here but from what I can tell, there hasn't been any tangible new evidence. definitely none uncovered at least in the last 2 weeks.

it was 17 years but at the end of the 17th, thus 1971. either way, they had phones and letters in those days. my mother said they used to send tape recordings back and forth too. even if it was 1972, He was there for 3 years. I didn't say my Uncle was a Cooper.

DUUUUUUUDE the chances of a guy in a SUIT walking into ANY bar within 30 miles of that LZ is ZIP He would stand out about as much as one of those loggers showing up in flannels with high water cut off levi's and wearin his corks to The Met for La Traviata all he said was that he went to a bar drank and found a ride from the bar. didn't say what he was wearing, I didn't know what he was even talking about at the time. or I would have asked for more details I guess. for all I know he could have stopped at a couple barns, or a church, or any number of places in the area and changed clothes. the main point of the conversation wasn't how he pulled it off, it was that I shouldn't follow in his footsteps. it's not like he sat me down and said, son let me tell you how I hijacked an airplane and stole a bunch of money. my mother led him to believe i already knew then handed the phone to me and he made excuses and gave a very abbreviated rundown pre-supposing I knew the whole story already. when the reality was I had no idea what he was talking about other than stealing money and jumping out of an airplane with it and how he wished he hadn't but "so I stole the money, they stole it from us first", "noone was hurt", "sometimes you gotta break the rules", "they owed us that, at least that", "you don't know how things are gonna turn out ahead of time", "later you find out you were wrong", " didn't hurt anyone for it", "when things get rough you just keep going", "you know how they are in the bars, so I made friends and got a ride"... and alot more rambling sometimes sounding proud others sounding regretful. I'm not sure but I think this may have been the conversation where it was decided that I would take an assumed name also? I remember him giving me names to pick from. weird how memories are fractal sometimes.

He doesn't like t be asked about anything He did in the military unless its about something He brings up. has flashbacks and such so it's really a touchy subject.

She sure doesnt think so Jamie. Jo has endured far worse than has been thrown at you here. What's wrong with cutting a little extra slack to an older woman who is pursuing an obsession, that DW=DBC? She isn't vicious, just obsessed. Perhaps biased would be a less derogatory characterization. She is harmless and actually a nice person, ask Sluggo if you do not believe me. The forum can't by itself be biased, The posters can or the moderator can. Who are you pointing the finger at? Please tell us more about your relative and his involvement with 727 jump tests in Asia. No reason to keep it secret and it may be of great interest. In my opinion Cooper HAD to know that a 727 was jumpable. Not even the NWA 727 flight engineeer knew that it was. The crew had to contact Boeing tech ops to learn that it was possible to fly safely with the rear stairs deployed. How did Cooper know more about the plane than the cockpit crew did on this particular point? Could he have known about the Air America 727 drops? Please give us some info. 377 I'm withholding his name name because He is still alive, but with health problems. He wouldn't realize he had any involvement with this case and it would be very hard for him to take, possibly even kill him. in the film "Flying Me, Flying Machines" I recognized my uncles voice in a segment, also the ceramic pagoda thing identifying the location as Japan. there was a tradition between two companies stationed there to steal it and put in the office of the new Chief of operations shortly after he assumed the job. it was a trophy of sorts reminding the other company who was in charge or some rivalry like that. when my uncle was done and coming home, it was presented to him as a parting gift. I also have a newspaper article that places him there until November of 1971. the relevance of this is that He and my Father were friends and both being military men, involved with aviation, what would you guess they would chat about?

That's not entirely true. At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are. if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved. why should it matter who I am? That's a lot of IFs. Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are. Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have." lol and thats why the case remains unsolved. seriously you consider me a liar because I'm saying the proof may be in a police file that existed before I was born? Reread everything here. I didn't call you a liar and particularly about a police file. I said you made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have." And you have. You want us to take your word you are who you say you are, yet you've provided zero proof to that effect. You do, in fact, want us to take your word on it. To deny it, is a false statement. and so I rest my case. this forum is biased in favor of JO.

That's not entirely true. At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are. if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved. why should it matter who I am? That's a lot of IFs. Meanwhile, I have a personal aversion to doing work at the behest of people I don't know. It's impossible to know what their motivations are, because, well, you don't know who they are. Lastly, because it proves you've already made a false statement, "I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have." lol and thats why the case remains unsolved. seriously you consider me a liar because I'm saying the proof may be in a police file that existed before I was born?

why wouldn't DB Cooper go to a bar? seriously, can you think of a single reason not to? as for everything being gone from a walkthru? Jo really, as a real estate agent walkthrus involve looking under floorboards and inside walls? I doubt it. the briefcase was hidden by the man who built the home. He knew he was hiding it from both the police and my father. he didn't just leave it lying on the floor. later he claimed no knowledge of it, and then died. it's very likily that it is still where he stashed it away.

That's not entirely true. At least Jo is a known quantity. People can verify she is who she says she is. To my knowledge, you've not provided any details we can use to even verify who you say you are. if the prints are in the Willie vocks casefile, and/or the briefcase shows up where I said it was, and the case is solved. why should it matter who I am?

and why should we think ur memory is better than others? whats this actually suggest? And why should we think your memories are better than hers? you shouldn't and I've never suggested so. however, everything that anyone has checked out about my story has produced proof. I haven't asked anyone to take my story on faith, which is also why I see no threat from any other claims out there. like I said when I first started posting here. it doesn't matter if you like me or not. if you want to solve the case eventually someone is going to have to at least compare the fingerprints or look for that briefcase. I didn't set the parameters for reality, and I don't want anyone to just take my word for anything, never have.

and why should we think ur memory is better than others? whats this actually suggest?

A great argument for doing nothing. Everything is too old, subject to flawed memory, and has been rehashed over and over. It's hopeless. I disagree. Cold cases get solved this way from time to time, even really old ones. Sure, the odds are long, but it is not hopeless and not silly. 377 I agree citing the "Willie Vocks case" as a prime example. now if I could just motivate someone with authority to do something with what I said. perhaps some consider my accounts to be folklore. and it's true everything prior to my reaching the age of 2 maybe 3 or so is for the most part 2nd hand. sans a couple very early memories from before the age of 1. but lets not forget. the ancient city of Troy as once thought to only be a folklore as well until someone finally listened and poof, found Troy. after checking out google street view I'm thinking the tavern in Amboy is the most likily candidate for where my father said he went after the jump. if it were me and I was in the FBI's estimated landing zone, thats where I would go. a person could safely and easily stash the majority of the money in any of a million places outside and conceivably find a ride or even use the private airstrip nearby. now this chute that was found near Amboy. I know thats it's generally thought to have nothing to do with Norjack. here's my question. how much space would it take up if it were folded up? would there have been a military surplus store or anything like that in Seattle in 1971? also would it have been possible to cannibalize one of the rigs with a chute of this type in the amount of time DB Cooper had on the plane? the main reason I'm wondering is because my father had at least one of this "white" style of chutes on his farm in ND. I think he had more than that actually but I specifically remember one being used for a drop-cloth to paint his vehicles. lastly, the Norjack case cannot be compared to JFK, Aliens, bigfoot or any other unsolved mystery the way you have chosen to quade and here's why. we don't have prints from the JFK assassination, or any of the other cases you mentioned. while it's plausible that we may never find the proof we want, we do have some proof. this is yet again why someone with the authority to do so should open the "Willie Vocks" case file and check for any prints of my fathers, and while theyre at it, get a search warrant and see if the briefcase is still in the attic I last saw it put into. so far I haven't been able to find a single bit of evidence that discredits my Father being DB Cooper, the only part that doesn't fit effortlessly is his age. but again, noone knows the actual age of DB Cooper, and given my father theatrical background in High School, he would have known a trick or two to make himself look a little older, aside from the multiple factors I've mentioned in previous posts.

are the FBI withholding key data or something? I don't understand why it should be so hard to figure out an approximate landing zone? the bump when he jumped makes perfect sense. the rest should just be a matter of number crunching.

Huh? Biased to enable... ? How can you be credibly bullied by an elderly lady with a keyboard? You can ignore or block PMs and nobody can force you to read their posts. Anyway, Jo is harmless so relax Jamie. I'm with 99 on the 727 jump video. I see careless editing and sound synching but no conspiracy to mislead. What's the big deal anyway? The important issue is that live jumps were made from a 727 prior to Norjack. Japan, Thailand, or ? What's the dufference as far as DBC is concerned? 377 sure the jump video doesn't conflict with my story, and it may be a syncing problem but that still doesn't explain why the out of sync portion has been boosted and so conveniently edited just enough to support a misleading thailand theory. but either way, shouldn't be upsetting to anyone that I re-edited it to remove the "out of sync/added audio". as for the bully thing, have you not read the posts? she's not only trying to contact me here. claims to know me b4 I posted here? wants more personal private info than a Sudanese identity thief. gets angry when I don't cooperate. suggests I could be declared an unfit parent, then claims to have influence with all sorts of Govt. and law enforcement people. keeps posting I'm a scary person? a kindergarten child could see where she's trying to go with this, unfortunately there are many cases where innocent people have been arrested or even put on death row over some woman crying wolf. I'm sure coming from Florida where they incarcerate rappers, and other entertainers, and rig elections, being the widow of a dirtball like the DW, and somehow making it in the competitive real estate market as a woman in a time before womens lib. makes for a sweet nice old lady. this forum is biased. all kinds of personal attack posts started by JO. from the first day I came here, and well before. which is a violation of the first rule of DZ.com but apparently because of her age or something she's been given special privileges. fyi I know some women who are 80 and 108. and they have their "sh*t" together far more than this scammer! her age is a moot point, and just being exploited for another type of scam. while obviously we are all free to go elsewhere as quade puts so eloquently, I don't see how that justifies literally thousands of site rules violations over years, against many posters even to the point of removing actual FBI agents, and banning others, by a single instigating, already proven to be full of it, poster. that is just plain old special treatment, favoring and enabling Jo. "by all accounts I knew her b4 I came here?" lol by Jo's account you mean quade! I was invited here by someone else who can verify it. I came here to discuss the DB Cooper/Norjack case, not be slandered and stalked for not cooperating with Jo's agendas. seriously, what does her bizarre theory suggesting I was adopted have to do with Norjack at all?

human intervention seems the most likely and least convoluted. especially when, like you mentioned b4, it's almost the same amount as was offered to Tina Mucklow. have you found confirmation on that yet? very compelling if you have. also do you have a opinion as to why he chose the clothing he did?

excuse me? I can prove she keeps sending unwanted and unrequested, emails and private messages, asking for private information. go ahead and boot me or whatever. I had no idea who she was prior to coming here. I was asked to come by another party. quite frankly this forum is biased to enable her to harrass and bully other posters who don't agree with her agenda anyway. as of yet the only actually useful new info I've found here was from a banned user, and even that had been altered and misleading.

While we're on the subject, why don't you tell us how you came to the conclusion you know the spot he landed? Since you have Google Earth handy, maybe you can provide us with a lat-long. don't have an exact location, just used local folklore that he landed to the southeast of Ariel, and the FBI estimates that he landed between Amboy and the cedar lake refuge area. I'm guessing he might walk downhill instead of up? hard to say? plenty of hiding/dry off locations in the area, also in Amboy theres a tavern. gonna try to find out how old.