nigel99

I don't believe that this practice will last long in the USA with the suing culture. It is not going to be long before multiple lawsuits are brought alleging sexual harassment. I mean in reality what is the difference between a TSA agent playing with your balls and simply checking you over - probably nothing other than atmosphere and perceived intentions? Another thing I didn't realise that the full body scanners were using backscatter x-ray (ionising radiation) that adds a whole new dimension for frequent fliers as the West still hasn't caught up with Russia in terms of understanding dosimetry and our thresholds for "safe" are generally still to high. In the UK the scanners are THz based on non-ionising radiation and I thought that it was the media getting it wrong when talking about x-rays. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I am fully aware of that. I believe that at least 2 recent terrorist attempts have been converts to Islam and where not even Arab but black and possibly white. I realise that people "misread" and I said Muslim not Arab in my original post. Realise that when we foreigners travel to the USA your government is given access to a shitload of personal data (including our full banking details). Religion is part of the information that is conveyed and I see no reason to not use this to assist in a sensible risk assessment. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

I agree with you that it takes sensitivity and intelligence. So far I have only had good experience travelling into the US despite carrying what could be classified by as suspicious goods. However I have found that being relaxed following the letter of the law and if in doubt asking for advice from them has worked well. My favourite was the chat at Fort Worth some years ago (after 9/11) and I had some pretty sophisticated prototype electronics with me. The guy and I started chatting and I mentioned that it was a prototype with military applications and he immediately let me through. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

The stockyards are very interesting. You could go to the Rodeo, Billy Bobs is a must and finally for good steak "Cattlemans". All of this is in the Fort Worth Stockyards. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Do you have a problem with that approach? I mean seriously the most probable terrorist attach is going to be a young male Muslim. While I sympathise with the plight of the very many innocent young male Muslims that would be inconvenienced why waste resources searching Grandma Jones? Similarly I have no problem with young western travellers being treated as a higher risk of being drug mules and the appropriate level of checks being in place. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

On the radio this morning a woman said "I have too much respect for myself to allow a stranger to see me naked". I REALLY would like to see a picture and in this case I am with Shah she better not be bigger than a size 8 - somehow I imagine her as 300lbs of woman with boobs hanging between her knees. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

............right up to the point where the conflict has existential consequences ....then all bets are off. You can remain righteous, moral and civil and die or you can do whatever it takes to continue to exist, personally or as a people. I would expect any group (except one led by that crackpot Gandhi ) to resist extermination. (just taking a concept to the extreme. I'm not suggesting that we are anywhere near that end ....yet. But we, the "free world", seem to be doing everything we can to get there). I agree with you. I think that the western world is schizophrenic. We have a belief system and a standard of life that we want everyone else to have - but it must not be at our expense. Everyone wants people in China to not work in sweat shops until it means that there TV set or Computer costs 5 times the current amount. I have no problem in the west going to war to defend ourselves but we can't use the excuse that we are trying to impose freedom. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Identities. Robert I am only a member of 1 or 2 forums and dz.com is my "main attraction". Many years ago I had a wakeup call when a poster on this website got into a situation where what should have been internet name calling escalated and an individual managed to get to the posters employers resulting in him losing his job. Frankly on a web forum remaining anonymous can allow you to let your hair down and perhaps behave in a manner that you would not want certain people to be aware of. In the same way that you might enjoy a drunken night on the town with mates - you probably wouldn't want to run into your biggest client in that state. I see forums in the same way - there is my professional life and my private life I would rather they stay that way. I think that dz.com moderators do a fantastic job of ensuring that the forums don't descend into anarchy. Considering that the veil of anonymity could so easily allow this to happen. Also consider that in general this community (skydivers) is very small and in most cases at least 1 other poster knows the true identity of those who post. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Actually according the the BBC article the USA does consider waterboarding torture IF it is done to a US citizen. I believe from the audio clip that official policy is that they would seek the death penalty for such behaviour. I am sure that most troops are subjected to varying degrees of torture to prepare them for their career. Just because the "good guys" don't use torture doesn't mean that the enemy won't and that the troops shouldn't be mentally prepared or trained. The USA is free to follow the enemies tactics as far as I am concerned Fox news can show US troops beheading people and parading bodies in the streets just like the enemy does. The only reason not to go down that route is if you truly believe and live by the principle that we are "civilised". When we choose to go down the path of doing the moral or civilised thing, we lose the option to engage in certain activities EVEN if we believe they MIGHT yield results. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Do you remember the Iraq debates? Rhino was a prominent poster back then, I still remember his "glass parking lot" preference. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Seriously though, what do you know about it? Have you been exposed to priveleged information? Are you nuts? We invaded a defenseless country for no reason. Apparently, you were not paying much attention to the news much after 10 Sep 01. Iraq is connected to September 11th how? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Have you considered that secondary explosions are quite possibly a result of oil/gas/electricity fires and subsequent explosions? Back in the day growing up in Africa the electricity substations were armed by soldiers. One day a "large" electrical breaker tripped and the fire quenching gas cylinders did their job (sulphur hexafluoride) One of the soldiers opened fire believing that he was under attack. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Smokey, here's your article. I was able to bring out a little more detail in the photos... hope this meets with your approval. Regards - G. So Georger it is you who has finally put Duane in contact with a parachute - however tenuous the link. The article mentions Kissinger was the judge Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

377 get with the program man The crime he did not commit is NOT related to DB Cooper but is another famous crime for which someone was executed. I am not sure which one although as it is a week past 5th November maybe it was Guy Fawkes. So my hypothesis is that Duane was Guy Fawkes father and THAT is why he hijacked the plane - this explains the grudge of course. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

What airline? What was the nationality of the cabin crew? Just curious. I'd never heard the term until I started reading about military aircraft internal comm systems. 377 I have been back and forth to the US about 10 times in the last 3 months - mostly on Useless Air (US Airways) but it could have been British Airways, but this is unlikely. It is not something I paid specific attention to but I believe the Captain or Co-pilot asked a member of the crew to go to the interphone over the PA. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

...unless everyone had their cells off cause they knew they were too far out for reception. Seriously though, if electronic devices are turned off, are they still damaged by an EMP? Yes - at least your typical consumer electronics. Provided you can induce enough voltage into the circuits to exceed their ratings for a reasonable period of time (modern electronics will be 1-5 volts typical). I don't know what volts/metre an EMP pulse will generate but in Europe the law is that all consumer electronics must operate with 3V/m induced field, alarm systems and medical are 10V/m and automotive safety critical upto 100V/m (at a 100V/m even the windshield wipers start arcing and sparking) Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Interphone - I am too young to comment on 1971 but I came across interphone recently and thought of this thread. I believe it was on a transatlantic flight and the Cabin Crew used the term (I forget the exact circumstances - as I was probably being hit on by a male cabin crew member as usual - why never the women??) Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Do you really believe in your heart that thousands of of those same people would not have died wether we went in or not? Any life taken is a waste. It is just a very difficult thing and a heavy burdenm that leaders hold on their shoulders, to decide which ones are justified. I think that in the case of Iraq not a single US or UK life would have been lost IF there had not been a war. Afghanistan is not as black and white as clearly there were considerable ties with terrorism. As far as local lives go - I believe that GW Bush and Tony Blair are morally responsible for the 100 000 odd deaths that have occurred. I can't put a figure on what the deaths would have been under Saddam but I think it is safe to say there would have been considerably less. I haven't heard a great deal about civilian deaths in Afghanistan and so I don't have an opinion and I generally feel that the Afghan leadership needed to be removed and that the price of war will ultimately be worth it - IF we don't simply install another lunatic. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Yes...they weren't shot in the head. waterboarding is not lethal, unless bitten by a shark. Nice christian love Torture is fine cause you weren't killed. Should torture victims thank you for sparing their lives? Hopefully you were being sarcastic. . This is followed by the admission of Bush that he was "mortified about the false intelligence that lead to the war on Iraq". BUT Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

sorry boss I pressed the wrong button Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Yes single engine plane lost its engine but we made it back to the airport and then had to push the aircraft a couple of hundred meters up the runway to the club house. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Trust me watch the video and listen to the audio feed. The jounalist lasted 12 seconds the first time and then when the CIA told him that 30 seconds was about the longest people lasted being British he wanted to try again to see if he could beat it The audio feed has some interesting analysis. The WMD evidence for Iraq was obtained by torture - look how reliable that was Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11715577 Interesting article and perspective on Bush's perspective on torture. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

Thanks. The question of storage is interesting. My gut feel is that storage for a limited time period perhaps the duration of the flight would benefit law enforcement IF anyone got through with a bomb. It would allow them to revisit the scan and see if it was a new method, or simply operator incompetence/lack of training. I was very interested in the one link someone provided - I didn't realise just how abusive some TSA guys were. I guess I have always been lucky. Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

sure point taken. So where do you stand on the issue? Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.