Farflung

Here’s a couple more images georger. No hallmarks or makers noted on this item. http://www.etsy.com/listing/16877273/vintage-mother-of-pearl-tie-clip-and

Extremely impressive analysis georger. I did not spot any hallmarks on the clasp photo and was foolish enough to believe the testimony of the JC Penney manager who stated that they did not carry that type of clasp. One day I will learn this basic lesson of how intentionally or unintentionally full of crap people can be. So after more than 40 years and who knows how many people looking at this clasp with a description which never was more refined than gold in color with a stone or Mother of Pearl, you have managed to identify the manufacturer, years produced and the retail outlet. I’m sure those who have already whined and cried endlessly about a subject being repeated will remain nonplused. I for one am dazzled, humbled and impressed at this David versus Goliath analysis. Not to diminish any of what you have done, but why was this identification such a difficult task for everyone else? Oh well, so much for titles, budgets and overspecialized equipment in the wrong hands. Seeing that clasp with associated tie tack and cuff links and the gold plated label exposes this as an inexpensive and widely available item versus the previous portrayals of a unique item forged in the house of Faberge. Then this thing was attached to a clip on tie from the same retailer which displayed the battle scars of having been pierced with a couple tie tacks and creased with a tie clip possibly. In other words, the clasp is a cheap, years old item, with the earmarks of a garage sale reject and just as common. What will those do who have told a different story without the photographic sourcing or digital provenance? OK that was a loaded question, they will BS louder and more violently than ever before. Crap information never goes quietly into the night. I literally spent hours searching specialty catalogs featuring retro jewelry, collectables and small wares with absolutely nothing appearing close to the Cooper clasp in architecture. It was a good thing I avoided all the JC Penney catalogs and went after the more collectable varieties thanks to the Troglodytes who spewed how they knew this was a cherished, valuable and unique item. I don’t care if this helps ‘solve’ the Cooper case, since I don’t know if it will help and neither do any of the ‘Halfbright Scholars’ that have already claimed it is irrelevant. It is a great exemplar of what sourced information and following the data will produce, instead of the usual brain dead garbage repeatedly posted and ultimately proven to be false. Thanks for the moment of clarity goerger.

Here’s some basic numbers to measure Dawn K’s (her real name) claim that she saw Kenny’s tie clasp, not the same type since that is what georger and I were discussing, but Kenny’s personal tie clasp in the FBI photo. There were approximately 2,000 JC Penney stores with that tie clasp produced from 1960 to 1968. Each store selling 6 per year, for 8 years of production, is 96,000 units (tens of thousands/mass produced). If each tie clasp was viewed by 10 people (too much of a stretch?), then that makes 960,000 people who conservatively observed a DB Cooper style tie clasp. Not exactly a noteworthy experience. But, Dawn K identified the ‘ONE’ in the FBI photo which was mixed with a dozen other photos (as you do) and said, “Hey, this photo out of the dozens presented, has Kenny Christiansen’s tie clasp. I say this to the exclusion of all others.” That must be how it happened, it’s not like she was handed ONE picture and asked a question cause that would just be stoopid. Obviously georger and I were incorrect in assuming this mass produced item which was clipped on a massed produced tie which was around mass produced matches and mass produced cigarettes were in fact easy to identify by a Bible thumping granny. Yeah, sounds like the quality everyone has come to expect from AB. Sure, no argument here, just waiting for you to tell the FBI all this so you can get the recognition so richly deserved. Sincerely.

Well the Sky Chef contract covered the flight kitchen for numerous airlines, the airport restaurant, bar and newsstand. So it would stand to reason that one could acquire some Sky Chef matches at any of those sources. I just don’t get all tingly and lightheaded over matches from an airport services company on a hijacked airline. Now if Cooper was holding some other type of matches then there could have been some sort of clue. Matches from a ‘Fear of Flying’ clinic would have been a good but not friggin Sky Chef.

RobertMBlevins astonishingly responds with: “Geestman's sister didn't say she 'saw one'. She said she recognized the tie clasp in the FBI picture as one belonging to Christiansen….” georger just posted a very similar appearing clasp which matches the FBI photo and the two clasps for sale on eBay. But Dawn J can distinguish between the clasp in the FBI photo and all others? And you believe this? Well then case closed, obviously. Sure would have been easier if you had said this from the beginning instead of all that Pacific Ocean feeds the Columbia and Captain Scott talked to Cooper stuff. Since Bernie’s sister identified the tie clasp in the FBI photo as Kenny’s then you should call the FBI and let them know this. Be sure to give them all your information so you will get credit for the identification of DB Cooper, since it is a pretty sure bet that the tie clasp in the photo was worn by Cooper and the tie clasp IS Kenny’s; then there is nothing left to ponder. Good job RobertMBlevins, a grateful thread participant salutes you.

That’s the closest example I’ve ever seen of the elusive tie clasp georger. Yes, I’ve spent time scanning and searching tie clasps with zero luck. Nice find. So what’s the provenance/pedigree? Mother of pearl and gold plate sure compliments the JC Penny tie, Raleigh cigarettes and Sky Chef matches for price point, taste and quality. I went so far as to craft a DB Cooper orbital chart (because I’m awesome) of how far I presently sit from all the rare and uncommon artifacts associated with the hijacking. Pack of Raleigh’s, assuming they are still made is 300 yards from me. A JC Penny store is a whopping 3.4 miles, which supplied the tie and apparently the clasp (even though the Penny manager in Las Vegas denied having such items to the FBI). Leaving the Sky Chefs matchbook at the greatest distance of 21 miles, which is sort of moot since one typically hijacks airplanes at airports. Even in 2012 these items are common place to the point of noise. Yet somehow this Towncraft tie with Raleigh cigarettes lit with matches from an airport concession operator became exotic, wild and unique.

RobertMBlevins reflects on the importance of the tie artifact with: “Dawn J's ID on the clasp, IMHO, means much more.” I think it is obvious to everyone that the tie clasp was mass produced by the tens of thousands and Dawn J was one of hundreds of thousands to have seen one. Some people claim to vaguely recall Raleigh cigarettes because of the coupon on the back. These people must not be aware of the fact that many cigarettes had coupons on the back, Camel and Chesterfields for example. That tie clasp must be so common that some enterprising person has apparently acquired a case of the things along with a lot of Skychef matches. Now anyone can purchase a genuine, replica DB Cooper artifact for their very own. What price you ask? You’ll never guess. I agree, the clasp, tie and Skychef matches were all available in the tens of thousands across the country thus proving nothing again. Now add a personalized autographed picture of Tina, half a pack of smokes, sunglasses and a bottle of Wild Turkey and I would throw down some righteous bucks for that package.

RobertMBlevins opines about the position of the tie clasp as: “As far as the so-called put on by a left-handed person *tie clasp,* the only REAL picture is the FBI picture.” Did you mean this FBI picture (0:37 – 0:54)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLOgfkv4alk&feature=related Gee it sure looks like that theory on the only REAL picture has just been destroyed by a LIVING FBI agent in a moving picture video which clearly has the clasp on the other side of the tie. I know how very important the truth is and know you will find this information comforting. You’re welcome.

BINGO smokin99. You actually found a left handed, tie clasp. Now you just need to find a left handed, men’s shirt. Airtwardo thinks there are some European men’s shirts which button on the left. I think that’s just a euphemism though. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Now would this left handed tie clasp be put on upside down by a right handed person even if they were wearing a right handed, men’s shirt or would a spouse (husband here) be able to dress his wife by putting on her tie clasp for her like was previously suggested? My goodness, sakes alive but getting dressed has so many facets and complexities on this thread that it’s any wonder anyone is clothed at all.

You know this is long overdue and ready to be embraced by a vast market of Cooper experts and amateurs alike. No more having to sift through dry government reports and news articles searching for an accurate depiction of DB Cooper. No sir, now with this forensic visual aid anyone can add the desired characteristics from fact or fantasy or any combination of the two. It is obvious that facts on this thread have been treated like a ‘special friend’ in an Airstream, on Thanksgiving eve. With this new forensic tool, one can now construct exactly what can’t be portrayed using the over 300,000 words contained within the English language. Some things can’t and most certainly have not been described with those letter-y word things on this thread and I think it is a shame. I hope people will use the I-Dent-A-Kit to better convey their message of truth driven by nothing but pure and honorable intent which the FBI has so egregiously ignored. You’re welcome.

Even with the article posted by smokin99, which clearly states that Sky Chef was awarded the contract for the flight kitchen, restaurant, bar and concessions at Portland in 1966; confusion still rages like a party in an Airstream. This is hard to believe. Is that ‘teaser’ on Gray’s website truly this baffling and confounding, as to cause what appears to be early onset Alzheimer’s? Gray goes so far as to ask (I presume he is asking because he does not know) if there was a Sky Chef in Portland by 1971. What must the reading comprehension be? Yes Virginia, Portland had a Sky Chef restaurant in 1971 and this was pointed out by smokin99, five months ago. Of course five months is more than ample time for a myth to become re-animated and begin stomping out of the castle’s laboratory once again. First there will be the claims of who identified this gem first, as has already happened. Then some butthurt will be applied to ‘Mr Short-term-memory’ in a desperate ploy to extinguish going through this again (now scheduled for 1 Aug 2012) while acting ignorant about the last act or two. Some clever assclown offers some Sky Chef matches and a cheesy TIE CLASP (I see there is still confusion on what the thing is called) which is modeled after some DB Cooper trivia as a way to make a few bucks. Why not? Good for him. But, and this is a Hometown Buffet/Wal Mart, BIG but…… analysis is done on this matchbook (in Gray’s website) as if it was the one Cooper carried on the plane, when this was NEVER even obliquely suggested by Gray or the eBay seller. Astonishing! Yet they want to be taken seriously on other research items? So this leads to the patently obvious item to investigate next. Did DB Cooper wear an ‘emergency moustache’ to compliment his toupee and glasses? This would explain why no one noticed him in the waiting area or on another inbound flight since he was still sporting a press-on, cookie duster. Did the FBI ask the living witnesses if they noticed any mustachioed individuals in the bars, restaurants, incoming flights, neighboring towns and cities or restrooms? No and it was careless on their part. As it stands….. Cooper was from North Pierce County, right handed, never worked for an airline, was not gay (but transsexual), wore a woman’s shirt, a man’s toupee, had Sky Chef matches (may not have had Portland listed in cover) and an ‘as of yet to be identified’ moustache (just a strong possibility). Did I miss anything? This is way better than discussing Cooper’s seat, good call.

Oh….. mah….. gawd!!! How could we be so stupid? It wasn’t a left handed tie clasp, it was a left handed shirt OR a woman’s blouse!!! Why didn’t I see this before? It’s all so clear now. DB Cooper’s shirt was never, never I say, described by any witness (at least the living ones) for an insanely obvious reason. Prepare to be stunned. The closest witnesses to Cooper were Flo and gentle, sweet, angelic Tina. Neither of them made a statement about Cooper’s shirt and I have this recorded and certified that nothing was said. Why? Because of the utter banality the garment represented. That’s right, you got it, Flo and she who haunts me in my dreams, Tina filtered out Cooper’s shirt from their descriptions because it was just like their shirts. Why would they take note of a left handed shirt? They wouldn’t because they are chicks and chick’s shirts button on the other side. So the tie clasp was put on by a right handed person (eliminating Duane and Kenny) who was wearing a left handed shirt. The only ‘major suspect’ (not sure who maintains that list) who fits this 100%, without qualification or apology nor leap of logic is none other than…… Barb Dayton. Yes, thanks to the previously, misidentified tie clasp, which was attributed (falsely) to a left handed man in fact would be clearly used by a right handed, transsexual wearing a woman’s blouse. I think Skyjack71 and RobertMBlevins deserve the credit for identifying Barb Dayton since they made such repeated calls towards the left handed tie clasp. They reflect great credit upon citizen sleuthery, the pursuit of ‘The Truth’ and wholesome family entertainment and humility.

I agree…. to the Nth degree…… smokin99. A quick search of the newspaper archives and eBay confirmed that Sky Chefs indeed had a restaurant, bar and numerous other concessions at Portland airport with a matchbook cover to boot. I wonder (code for, no I don’t) how hard these factoids are verified and vetted. I see how the phrase confirmed and verified is used by some, but as soon as I ask for the name of the certifying body it is cricket chirps. Almost as if these people have never done a research project before in their lives. Too hard for me to figure out that’s for sure. Oh well, back to interviewing DEAD witnesses for me (gawd that cracks me up- live witnesses). Did anyone see what happened here? Yes officer, that corpse over there saw the whole thing….. you should interview him. He may know which way the Columbia River flows and other trivial stuff!

RobertMBlevins appears to be utterly confused about this neckwear accessory as he keeps calling it a tie tack. Strange since this silly trivia was once one of the top reasons Kenny was DB. Oh well, just claim it is a fluid case, like the direction the Columbia River flows and act like no one notices and just keep going. Which living witness said there were Cooper comics on Shemya or that Scott talked to Cooper? Or have they all died so it’s OK now to be wrong? I dunno. I’ve attached a graphic for the fashion challenged to better understand all that involves a tie. You’re welcome.

RobertMBlevins says without reading any of the four previous comments: “I pointed out to Gray (and on this forum, where I was ridiculed about it) that it was possible KC got those matches….” And will no doubt be ridiculed more since you did not notice smokin99’s comments…. Twice. “The Matchbook: Could have come from the Portland SkyChef, if one was there in 71.” IF there was one in 1971???? How ever could we figure that out??? Another mystery like a left handed tie clasp! About the tie clasp…… the comment was about it being ‘LEFT’ (THAT’S LEFT HANDED) and not who saw the thing.

Here’s a little supplement to your original post smokin99. I hope you could see that I was being sarcastic with that comment about the ‘new’ clue. Any search in the news archives will answer that question and I found some matches on of all places - eBay which have Portland listed in the cover. But there is NO explaining that left handed tie clasp. One more mystery to add with the statuary of Easter Island, the Pyramids of Giza and the Hanging Gardens of Babylon; but better than all that stuff.

What’s this new clue? http://huntfordbcooper.com/d-b-cooper-evidence-found Somebody dropped the ball with this one georger. This Sky Chef matchbook may point towards Cooper and his tie clasp after all. Color me embarrassed again.

So explain the tie clasp on the wrong side of the tie. I remember tie clasps left on ties (clip-ons)...just so they could take the tie off and on real easy. My first husband wore clip-ons because when he first started out on a debit in 1961. If he was able to get by without the tie he just folded in on the seat of his car. He was an insurance saleman - and his work often meant having to work during hot days - but the company required a tie. Lots of service people did this also. Another explanation would be someone else put the clip on the tie - like a wife. I do not remember if I personally ever saw Duane wear a clip-on - he had LOTS of ties. I believe from pictures he did wear clip ons in the past as work he did was in service and he also worked an insurance debit under the name of John Collins in the 60's. When I met him he had moved on in the insurance business and worked by appointment only and in a management capacity and therefore use REAL ties. So we are back to the damn tie!*** Gulp….. I had never thought of a spouse putting the tie clasp on Cooper. Gosh, now I feel kinda creepy. Plus he could have put the thing on from the left save to save time too. Both good points and worthy of inclusion on the DB Cooper thread, what was I thinking?

Remember the ‘Left Handed Tie Clasp’? That’s OK, because I do and it is braised into my brain as one of the most debilitation attacks of stupidity in my long, long life. This piece of shining evidence was raised multiple times by individuals who had suspects which were, if you can believe this, left handed. Well, well, well I thought; this may be of some value. Then smokin99 (who is a chick) comments that a left handed, tie clasp would serve no purpose since the seam in a man’s shirt opens on the right side. Wow, that was embarrassing for me since I ‘bought’ the original statement without completing any validation. In my defense I wear a tie chain as to not damage my haberdashery with those roach clip teeth or the cruel piercing experienced with a tie tack. Plus it makes it easier for women to tear off when they can no longer contain their passions in an elevator, check out line at the grocery or wedding ceremony. After all, she has enough on her mind keeping the bridesmaids away while ditching that loser in a tuxedo. So that’s why I wear a tie chain and was ignorant about left handed tie clasps. Gosh, it was almost (almost here) like someone had a suspect in hand and was desperately trying to force some sort of match with a left handed tie clasp. If someone was so left handed as to put the tie clasp on the left side, then I would expect to see them wearing their watch on the right wrist as validation for that preemptive excuse. Hmmmmm……..

I don’t know how much more violently I can agree with your scientific approach on Cooper being a local boy RobertMBlevins. Using an identical approach, Cooper wanted to fly to Mexico City which was too far and the crew talked him out of that. Then it was Phoenix or Yuma which he agreed to as well only to end up taking Reno. What a pinhead regarding aircraft performance and airline operations. He clearly has never worked at an airline otherwise he would not have asked for two loser locations only to settle for Reno. Cooper let the world know how full of BS he was when it came to air travel. The same way he betrayed being a local boy with the McChord conversation which some people on this thread claim never even occurred. Don’t forget that the stewardess thought Cooper was hitting on her. She was so sure of it that she just put the note in her pocket as it was typical of a manly, he man to hit on scorching hot women. Her gaydar did not go off at all and women have amazingly sensitive gaydar antenna. So this clearly proves that Cooper was not gay. Otherwise the flight attendant would have read the note. Oh, and the wanted poster has Cooper wearing brown shoes with black pants and suit coat. No way would a gay man dress like that. So Cooper is from North Pierce County, has never worked for an airline and is not gay according to freshly established observational evidence techniques. Something tells me this won’t be showcased either. Hold on; is that a left handed tie clasp in the FBI photo?

Superb point about Cooper being from South King or North Pierce counties based upon the fact that he knew McChord is only 20 minutes away. That demonstrates a clear familiarity with the area. Hey!!! Cooper said to fly that 727 to Mexico City from Seattle. This proves that Cooper knew nothing about aircraft, international travel or airline operations. Using the same philosophy, Cooper is from North Pierce and has never worked for an airline. Something tells me the same philosophy won’t be used though.

If the parachute rigger was known then the parachute would be known as well. Then some of this fabled lore could be removed till the next contestant reinserts the disinformation. The FBI did make the files available to certain members of the public who then immediately put a lid on their access. Life does imitate art, so it’s hard for me to complain about the FBI when it appears to be human nature. He who controls the information is king. There are just four chutes involved and two of them went with Cooper. One of the reserve chutes is in the FBI vault so there’s one mystery solved. It is a Switlik, 24 foot chest reserve made in 1959 under a military contract. Perhaps the other reserve is the same breed? I don’t know. But the surviving reserve is a military pack. The back pack Hayden has is made by Pioneer who also made parachutes for the military. The chute Hayden is wearing is most certainly NOT a Sport rig (source: skydiver, It has no provisions for a reserve chute) and has the appearance of an emergency aircrew parachute. If Hayden’s is the other chute, the FBI file notes the canopy as military. So if this is the other chute (IF), the Sport parachute with an inferior canopy data point would appear to be yet another Cooper myth. One which has enjoyed a full and vigorous life and still lives. Why this is so difficult to sort out is probably proportional to the amount of perceived damage done to a theory or revenue stream. Of course, those just looking for the truth are not concerned with such things. Yeah….. riiiiiiiiight.

Mrshutter45 asks: “The rigging card shows the chute was packed 6 months b4 the hijacking, then it shows a packing date 11 years after?” The repacks are only required to keep the item ‘airworthy’. Once out of time or currency then you have a nice conversation piece until getting it through the next inspection. It’s a dirty little secret that no one talks about. Take a look at this gem (bottom of page, Inspection Status): http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/BOEING-STEARMAN-PT-17-KAYDET/1943-BOEING-STEARMAN-PT-17-KAYDET/1223835.htm? That’s right, the last time that airframe was inspected - Eisenhower was president. Gosh I wonder what 57 years of hangar rental cost.

While still on a futile quest to discover the source of the “NB-6” Cooper used, I have blundered upon another incongruity in this tale. Except this one is from the least likely of places, that of course being Sluggo’s website. This was spurred by the article Bruce Smith published about Norman Hayden and his ‘Cooper parachute’ where he tells of sending the chutes off in a cab and the battle to recover the remaining Pioneer rig from the FBI. Remember? Attached are two screen shots of how the chutes were handled by Earl Cossey. The first version has Cossey putting the things in the cab from his (Cossey’s ) home. The second version has Cossey claiming the chutes were given or sold to the ‘individual’ who sent them in a cab. Now it appears that Norman Hayden’s version matches the second telling and Earl Cossey has two versions of what happened. Either way, the claim that the chute Cooper used was in fact a “military issue NB-6” is appearing less solid since there is confusion on who owned or sent the things to SeaTac. Any clarification (with a source) would be most appreciated.

Wow RobertMBlevins, that’s not filled with convolution or a raging desire to plant Dan Cooper comics on Shemya at all. Damn you’re smooth and suave. I prefer the approach with LESS touch points and assumptions. Hey, Seattle was an international airport which serviced those prop jobs with fuel from Europe too! It’s not like they went from Antwerp to Shemya as you appear to believe. Nope, they would have fueled in SeaTac and even tossed some comics around the crew lounge along with some DNA, who knows? This is also paper thin but looks like a coffee table version of ‘War and Peace’ compared to that Rube Goldberg story you posted. Why not just surrender the last of your dignity on the subject and simply declare a Dan Cooper comic was on Shemya, since you have a primal need for this and then you can go on to realize how much of a null set it ultimately represents. Geesh. Here’s a hint to what your ‘flight plan’ is…… (.--. / .-.), actually it’s a double hint. Hope this isn’t too much explanation.