Zenister

WOW! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Thanks Hook thats what ive been much less eloquently argue about, basing regulation on demonstrated ability, and not a simple numbers progression. At 500 jumps you magically become an "adult skydiver" and can now fly whatever canopy you wish??? just in case anyone thinks this is about age it really isnt at all. although younger skydivers (but certainly not only skydivers) DO want to be able to take higher risks, and find the edges of the envelope more than an older individual (who more likely to have kids and other responsibilities with higher priority than their need to take risks.) and honestly wouldnt live my life as i do if i had other obligations however i do not, so i take risks everyday that others might think silly most people think jumping out of planes is an unreasonable risk. most skydivers dont base jump. most rock climbers dont freeclimb. out of all the people who drive motorcycles & autos only a very small percentage chose to do so at race tracks at high speeds....etc etc.. its really about proving you have the skills and knowledge to be able to fly in the manner you are with a reasonable level of safety. Defining reasonable is the very tricky part. seems like the more we try to sell skydiving as something everyones grandmother should come do, the farther away we get from why people jumped out of airplanes in the first place. "pencil whipping" anything is wrong, and will still occur no matter what the regs say, there are dishonest people everywhere but i'm not sure what that really has to do with this issue. is everyone going to be content if for example in 2006 (after this BSR is emplaced and "fully enforced") when a comparable number of people as 2002 with jump numbers averaging 550 - 700 are injured & or die instead? or will we once again raise the out cry over the number of deaths and up the limits? why not just have larger print on the waiver you sign where it says you understand you can die doing this?? and then emphasis that the more you know about it the less likely it is to happen...after that its all up to you to decide what risks you are willing to take. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i raise major hell everytime that happens..you paid for your little tiny bit of space, and he paid for his. he isnt paying for your ticket so....its gotten me moved (and upgraded on that flight or a later one) when i do..it sucks to have to be an ass about it but damn i REALLY dont like someone elses lard in my lap..on the occasions when i have to sit there i make sure fat ass is as uncomfortable as he can possible be.. (i have boney elbows).. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

High: finally on the way back to WA. High: Friday looks to be blueskies High: a friend my come down from Baker so we can push him out of a plane High: this trip will pay for an new reserve for my new infinity..(which is due early next week

and of course mandatory jump number /wingloading regulation will do NOTHING to change that.. canopy control instruction WILL.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

clicky doesnt work.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

read? whats that? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i seriously doubt this, since far more jumps per year are made in america. you really have to look at the number as a percentage of total participation...but i'd be really interesting in more detailed statistics all around...(canopy types, currency etc...) still havent seen numbers that justify the "its raining blood" positions some people have taken on this issue because they happened to be close to someone who unfortunately contributed to the statistics.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you know i'm sure i'll get the "how callous can you be?" response, but you know when you start they tell you again and again that you might die while doing this..if thats not a risk your prepared to take, and if your not mature enough to make decisions about what you can & should be flying, then maybe the gene pool is better off without you.. yeah it sucks when anyone dies, to bad more people dont learn from it & seek the knowledge and training necessary to minimize the chances of it happening to them instead of screaming about how "that shouldnt be allowed!!" its not fear that should motivate anyone, its the desire to repeat the experience again in the morning. Fear also shouldnt motivate anyone to "be their brothers keeper" either. and yes i have already lost friends in this and other risky endeavors. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

thanks, i've been trying to point out again and again that the sample size we are talking about is to small to draw conclusions from, ut because this is an emotionally charged issue (you know people DIE..OMG) some people want instant regulation without really looking at the complete numbers.. there are alot of other factors that need to be considered EVEN when you are looking at a single year..(currency on canopy type and wingloading, weather conditions, apparent landing skills on previous canopies etc..) everyone keeps saying "look at other countries!?!" well this isnt an other country, how many jumps per year are made in those other countries? how does that compare to the fatality rate? i think we can all agree its a tragedy when someone dies from nearly any cause, however we should use them as an examples of why people need training when making canopy recommendations....sure your still going to get egoists who dont think the guidelines apply to them or that the need to get training...and they should simply continue to provide examples to those with 'better sense' who are interesting in being able to jump again tomorrow ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

definately get Seas of chees its my personal fave.. [qoute] but she wasnt impressed. no ne no no no no no no. she wasnt impressed at all...[/qoute] as cool as they are you havent seen anything till you see them live....when i was in college i had 'classically trained' musicians tell me what crap primus was..till they went and saw them..then they saw the light.. 200 cool points to the first person who can tell me why this song is called "Eleven" (no cheating..) it actually fits nicely with the lyrics but its a bit obscure... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you know i've been told someone who pay attention can actually narrow down what street in a particular city you were from simply by accent.. i once dated a girl whos mother had a really hard time getting along with another of my friends who had a rather thick 'common' (i'd say cockney, but i think thats only one variation) accent even though he was otherwise very nice & well educated.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

one would never pounce until invited to do so... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you mean all those women (who i've never met) arent attracted by my raw sexuality that leaks out thru my internet connection?? say it aint so... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

so you can look at someone and tell if they are loading at 1.2 vs 1.3 or 1.4?? [joke]do you guess weights at the state fair for extra cash?[/joke] sure its easy with tiny canopies and/or very large people, but if the ST&A's,DZO's and instructors cant be trusted now to evaluate the people around them and ground those who are obviously 'at risk' because of poor canopy control skills, what make you think they are more likely to tell some one "you cant jump that because the BSR says so..." and how do you decide? scales outside of the loading area? so if i lose 5 pound this week i'm ok, but a big BBQ dinner the night before and i cant fly?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

oooohh who's the lovely view on Viking's left? and there are at least 2 more redheaded skygoddess in those shots too.... now i'm even more annoyed ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yeah..thats the ticket! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no thats exactly what i meant.. no one should really decide what you can or cannot handle but you.. and when the ego driven fools pound in, they should serve as an example to others who wish to remain in the gene pool and be able to jump again tomorrow. But..there should be an easy route to get the education and training you need if you wish to find out where the edge of the envelope is...not a simple numbers based regulation that only really says "well after this your on your own" ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

lol..thats definitely a hell of a recommendation.. to bad it wasnt really directed at you ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

nice flame I know how to fly the canopies i do because i got good instruction. your plan puts a band aid on a broken leg, all so you can say you gave medical aid. people are under wings they cant handle because they arent being taught how to fly them. wingloading restrictions will do nothing to solve that. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

make sure your plan also includes some measure to ensure its enforced, say every time a jumper boards an aircraft after lunch? mandatory canopy size labels on the outsides of gear? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well we've already had this discussion so i'll just say i'll be sure to talk to my regional directors about implementing training programs that would actually make a difference in overall safety vs simply increasing the jump numbers of the next divot to hook in under a canopy they still havent learned how to fly. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i'll trade you my last 11 nights of sleep for your 11 jumps at Perris? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well i think one of the points of the movie (philosophically) is that everyone is a 'program' in that way "has a purpose and is fulfilling it" but for Neo to be a program then the speculation about everything taking place inside the matrix must be true and Neo would be the most clever and complex bit of programing ever..programs doubt? love? dream? (of course that would be a great excuse for Keanu's acting ) ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

my guess would be 6 posts ago ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.