Robert99

Good job, Shutter! Robert99

Unless otherwise stated, this post is based on the information Tom Kaye presented in his analysis of the Tena Bar money and related items that is available on his web page. Tom Kaye's analysis should be read very carefully by everyone who is interested in the Cooper hijacking. RUBBER BANDS ANALYSIS Tom did experiments with rubber bands in sand and water. He concludes that their lifetime in either sand or water is less than a year. He states that this suggests the money became buried at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking in 1971. Tom states that his data does not support the dredging theory and that, in turn, does not support the Washougal Washdown Theory. MONEY ANALYSIS Tom did experiments with actual bills and concluded that they would fan out on both ends (with a rubber band snugly holding the bills in the middle) within minutes of being submerged and would then sink to the bottom within a matter of minutes. Tom also concluded that, "Bundles of money 'floating' onto a beach like Tena Bar has a low probability and would require strong enough water flow to push the bundles onto the beach." Tom also used some of the Tena Bar money bills to reconstruct the bundles alignment. As viewed from the front side of the bill, it appears that the rubber band had moved to a point approximately one-third of the bill's length in from the left end of the bundle. Some portions of bills were overlaid on each other and permitted Tom to make his reconstruction of the bills alignment for a lengthy period of time. From Tom's reconstruction, it appears that the bottom of the bundle of bills was being restrained at some point when the upper bills were exposed to a "torque" from the water that moved the free end of the upper bills counter-clockwise to the rest of the bundle. THE REMAINDER OF THIS POST IS ROBERT99'S OPINIONS AND SPECULATIONS In my opinion, Tom Kaye's conclusions about the money arriving at Tena Bar within a year of the hijacking is correct and supported by his data. Also, Tom's conclusions about the dredging and Washougal Washdown theories are also correct. If the money made it to the bottom of the Washougal or Columbia Rivers, it would probably never have surfaced again. The GPS coordinates Tom gives for the money find location is about 13 feet above sea level (ASL). The typical daily high tide water level for the Columbia at Tena Bar with nominal river flow, is probably not more than 7 feet ASL. Consequently, the money would have to arrive at it discovery location during a high water period on the Columbia. All of the above taken together suggests that the money was washed from somewhere on the Fazio property or other land south (upstream) of there onto the river bank by water that was moving down the bank as it drained from these properties and into the Columbia. This water would have to come from the west side of NW Lower River Road, which was built on top of a levee. The present day Flushing Channel, at the south end of Caterpillar Island, was finished about 1979. How it changed the high level water flow over the area described above is not know at this time. But it appears conclusive that Tom's work indicates that the money was at Tena Bar prior to the end of 1972 and that the washdown and dredging theories are invalid. Robert99

Blevins, Don't forget that the Titanic's radio operators were very rude to the Californian's radio operator and ordered him to stay off that frequency. So he turned off his radio and went to bed since it was quite late. Of course, shortly after that, the Titanic's operators were wishing they had been more civil. Robert99

Jo, What in hell are you talking about? Robert99

How EARLY are U speaking of? By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES! ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths! How much are they paying U? Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939. As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start. You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote. Robert99 U cannot keep up with WHO posted WHAT! U take credit for STATEMENTS I made. U do YOUR HISTORY research. There were smoke jumpers prior to Derry training them to use his chutes - which were designed to prevent the tangles in the trees and to allow them to release themselves. PLEASE stop trying to back step to cover up your own errors. What U did was take MY statement and used it as YOURS! JO, READ THE FOLLOWING WHEN YOU HAVE A CLEAR MIND AND CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE READING! Jo, You need to pay attention to what I posted. My original post was #42047 and I repeated that number in post #42056 where I told you to go back and read post #42047. In post #42047, I stated that smoke jumpers had used parachutes for dropping their equipment. They had been doing that since 1939 when the smoke jumpers were organized in the USA. By your own statement, you are not a "precise" poster. And you have indicated that the words in your posts are secondary to your intentions, whatever that means. IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO POST ONLY WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING! Robert99

Jo, You can't put Duane even in a picture that he claimed to be in. You can't say for sure that he was a smoke jumper or even knew a smoke jumper. You also can't put him in a parachute, in the Pacific Northwest, or even on the planet in 1971. I may be biased, but I think your case for claiming Duane was Cooper is full of holes and a bunch of baloney. Robert99

How EARLY are U speaking of? By 1948 they were dropping cargo to the jumpers and forestry. Perhaps U need to READ up on the NICKLES! ROBERT, you actually think I am an idiot or you are deliberately TRYING to distort truths! How much are they paying U? Jo, Google "Smoke Jumper" and see what turns up. The Forest Service in the USA started using smoke jumpers in 1939. As I pointed out in my original post and repeatedly since then, equipment was parachuted to the smoke jumpers from the start. You really do need to start reading the posts that you later misquote. Robert99

look out for that.......................truck guy yells out "don't land on my truck" And the paratrooper had a square canopy. Obviously he did not plan far enough ahead.

Jo, I doubt very much if the Smoke Jumpers needed a parachute that could handle 400 pounds. Remember that Smoke Jumpers were for jumping into remote areas with minimal equipment in order to fight the fire until more personnel could arrive by land. So Smoke Jumpers at the start of a fire would basically be few in numbers and using only tools that they could carry and use by hand. Of course, those tools were dropped in by small parachutes but they sure didn't weigh 400 pounds. Robert99 Robert, I do not take sides in this thread nor do I think Cooper was a smokejumper. The skills sets need are not the same (Having said that I will now be proven wrong in the future

Jo, Apparently it is my post #42056 that you have in mind. Everyone is free to read it and decide for themselves what happened. Of course, Jo has been claiming all evening that I said Smoke Jumpers did not use parachutes for dropping equipment. And as usual, Jo didn't bother to read my post #42047 before making that false claim. Finally, in all honesty, it looks like BK has Jo on the right peg. Robert99

Jo writes: ROBERT U ARE WRONG! Smokejumpers - did have equipment dropped with a separate chute ... Robert99 replies: Jo, that is precisely what I said in post #42047. It would be nice if you would read a post before hitting the panic button. Jo writes: If U do not read the clarity of my posting tonight then U sir have NOT a clue about this case nor Cooper nor the background of Duane L. Weber - aka Johnnie Collins. Johnnie and that damn peanut jar! Robert99 replies: Huh? Jo writes: I leave U with a riddle and all of the solutions - U figure them out, but U will probably not get it until the STORY is put right in front of U. Sorry, but I came here with mission tonight and it was not to argue with U or anyone else. Merrily to make statements about what I do know. Robert99 replies: Did you accomplish your mission? Robert99

THANK YOU! JO is no idiot and Jo did do her research in the area. I have played dumb about a lot of things I know, but it is time for me to move on. So much of what you guy go over and over is repetitive. Please note the post prior to this one. I have finally made my statement - and there will be nothing more said. IF and WHEN the appropriate parties contact me - perhaps someday more about Duane's Webers past will come to the surface. I THINK it is time to reveal the REST of the STORY, but that is NOT up to ME. I am letting and putting on notice - that I have known this since DAY one and waited for someone to trust me enough to tell me the rest of the story, but it was NOT forthcoming. Therefore the story of Cooper will never be complete....this individual probably did NOT know Weber was Cooper and may have learned only after the fact. The Cooper caper had NOTHING to do with the great things this man did and the means by which he accomplished his goals. Jo, You also need to read my original post on this matter (#42047) since I did state that Smoke Jumpers used small parachutes for dropping fire fighting equipment. "The Cooper caper had NOTHING to do with the great things this man (Duane Weber?) did and the means by which he accomplished his goals." Are you really talking about Duane? He must have been an extraordinary con man. Robert99

Propblast, Please take a look at my original post (#42047) in which I stated that equipment WAS dropped to Smoke Jumpers by cargo parachutes. You can ignore Jo Weber's response above since she thinks Smoke Jumpers operated about like a US Army Airborne Division. In the WW2 and earlier days, Smoke Jumpers operated in very small groups, sometimes just two jumpers. Of course after they landed, they were fire fighters and if they couldn't handle the fire then more fire fighters would be sent either by parachute, if only a few were need, or by ground, if a large number were needed. Smoke Jumpers were basically "first responders" whose job was to attack the fire as early as possible in its evolution. For fires that were beyond their ability to control, the "ground troops" were sent in. But the early Smoke Jumpers basically only had hand tools to fight the fires. Robert99

Jo, I doubt very much if the Smoke Jumpers needed a parachute that could handle 400 pounds. Remember that Smoke Jumpers were for jumping into remote areas with minimal equipment in order to fight the fire until more personnel could arrive by land. So Smoke Jumpers at the start of a fire would basically be few in numbers and using only tools that they could carry and use by hand. Of course, those tools were dropped in by small parachutes but they sure didn't weigh 400 pounds. Robert99

Damn! I wish you hadnt posted that! Doncha know that all cargo parachutes weigh 400 pounds? Blevins carries one around everyday just for exercise .... the 400 lb Haynes jockey strap! 4 Clydesdale gonads abreast! Sorry.

Blevins writes: Meanwhile, the WW2 ('nylon-not-silk') cargo chute at eBay (courtesy of Georger) supposedly has the following information on it, shown below. The sellers also claim it weighs 400 pounds, but that could be an effort to make an extra buck or two from the buyer on shipping costs. Robert99 replies: Blevins, the information above states that the maximum cargo load is 400 pounds, not that the parachute weighs 400 pounds. Blevins writes: Speculation: The chute in Amboy may have been manufactured by the Hayes company, but due to the lack of other identifying marks, wasn't necessarily made for the military. Robert99 replies: Just exactly who was buying cargo parachutes in February 1945 other than the military? Robert99

I think the KEY word is STARTED and NOT mandatory. THe Pontiac I bought in 1984 or 1985 (BRAND NEW did NOT have anything but the hip belt). I am positive the Park Avenues did NOT have them either. 99.99% sure! Most indiviudal did NOT want them till they became MANDATORY. Sorry Jo, but the only thing you are correct about is the 1984/85. The Park Avenue was also equipped with airbags yours was used, I bet 100% they had the 3 point belts in it Jo... 27314.5. (a) (1) Subject to paragraph (3), no dealer shall sell or offer for sale any used passenger vehicle of a model year of 1972 to 1990, inclusive, unless there is affixed to the window of the left front door or, if there is no window, to another suitable location so that it may be seen and read by a person standing outside the vehicle at that location, a notice, printed in 14-point type, which reads as follows: "WARNING: While use of all seat belts reduces the chance of ejection, failure to install and use shoulder harnesses with lap belts can result in serious or fatal injuries in some crashes. Lap-only belts increase the chance of head and neck injury by allowing the upper torso to move unrestrained in a crash and increase the chance of spinal column and abdominal injuries by concentrating excessive force on the lower torso. Because children carry a disproportionate amount of body weight above the waist, they are more likely to sustain those injuries. Shoulder harnesses may be available that can be retrofitted in this vehicle. For more information call the Auto Safety Hotline at 1-800-424-9393." past 1990 they all had 3 point belts.....Now I'm done! Jo, Mrshutter is correct. I bought a new 1984 model Ford Ranger pick-up truck in late 1983. In early 1986, I was driving that truck when a drunk driver hit me almost head on. In the resulting metal crunching, and with me and the truck also going end-over-end through a ditch, the Ford three-point belt system paid for itself. I ended up with a lot of bruises from the restraint system and a lot of stitches in my head from hitting various parts of a crushed cab, but I still credit Ford with the fact that I am still breathing and didn't get my neck broken. Robert99

I am supposed to have a 2 paragraph auto report from 2000! I didn't need a reminder, but since you are so COCKY why don't you try to get a copy of it. It was a simple report made before I could give a statement or question it 3 months later. By then it was over - they were gone. YOU know I could ONLY wish upon you or your mother the life I have lived the last 18 yrs! Perhaps you need to stop pulling the silver tabs and realize I didn't tell the story about the accident just for my health. I had not told all of the story in its entirety until tonight, but decided NOW was the time. WHY are U involved in the COOPER story? Why did U pretend to be my friend and then make a complete Turn? Are you just here to see how much I did put together? So who do YOU really work for? Your posts regarding me are of concern...and I want this STATED right now. I will not let the likes of U cause me to tuck my head and run away....WHY would the Accident Report be of SUCH interest to U? I may NOT be able to prove the things I say, but they are TRUE! The stories I have lived are True! The things Duane told me are True! SINCE U are TALKING - tell me why would I keep the accident report? It could still be in the tax reports, but I clean those out ever 10 yrs and I think that was the last time I saw it - was about the 2010. The accident was 12 1/2 yrs ago! U are either drinking or U are not what U claim to be. DO I need to be AFRAID of U? Perhaps U need to be investigated? U hide behind an avatar, but I am a REAL person and THIS is my life I am discussing - NOT yours! Jo, If your insurance company can't provide you with a copy of that accident report, then the police department that investigated it probably can. Any accident that sent people to the hospital is going to generate a report that is several pages long and not simply "two paragraphs". I have seen accident reports for simple fender benders that were at least two or three pages long. How did you get your ribs broken? Did you have your seat belt and shoulder strap fastened? Robert99

Yellow X is placed where his pen is pointing - just below Heisson, an area Sluggo was interested in ... If you watch it in slow mo, he moved the pen further up. I thought it was possible to be a cargo drop for firefighters possibly during a training exercise? The guy in the espresso/ Ice Creme seems to be pointing in the direction of Ariel. (see photo) The lines do appear to be larger than a personal chute as Robert99 said. Something tells me we are still not done with the Amboy chute. Maybe it belonged to Lindberg ? or maybe Earhart's I think it's a cargo chute if you ask me. but, you never know??? here is another short vid.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2wL8Y2S-Ko Actually, as I am sure Jo will confirm, Duane Weber planted the Amboy chute as a deliberate ruse during the time he was leading Lewis and Clark down the Columbia River to the Pacific Ocean. While Lewis and Clark were investigating Vancouver Lake, Duane and an Indian maiden disappeared for several days during which they visited the Amboy area and concealed the chute there with full knowledge that it would be discovered at a time that would help confuse the FBI during their search for Duane (aka Dan Cooper). In appreciation for her cooperation, Duane gave the maiden several trinkets and sea shells to cover her next day's living expenses. This scenario is so obvious that I am surprised Jo hasn't pointed it out before. Robert99

Frankly, those shroud lines look as if they have a larger diameter than personnel parachute shroud lines. Robert99

Blevins, Do you remember a few months back when Hominid did a comprehensive analysis of the weather in the northwest part of the country for the evening of the hijacking? Hominid used maps such as the ones you attached, in fact probably the same ones, as well as the COMPLETE weather data from the National Weather Service for the Portland area as well as the rest of the route between Seattle and Reno. The information available to Hominid included winds aloft forecasts, the 8:00 PM PST hourly sequence reports for all major airports in the northwest, including Portland, cloud cover and the altitude of cloud layers, precipitation, visibility, etc., etc.. Hominid did the "gold standard" analysis and nothing remains to do be done in that respect. I remember seeing any number of posts from you in that time frame discussing the weather as well as at other times. So what are you trying to do by bring these weather maps up again? If you insist on doing another analysis by yourself, just keep in mind that the weather situation has already been discussed at extreme length. And it is highly unlikely that you will be able to equal, much less exceed, the analysis that Hominid has already done. Otherwise, this just seems like another attempt to recycle arguments, such as the Amboy chute matter, that pops up and are rehashed completely every few months without adding a single piece of new information. Robert99

Georger, Understood. I hope to have completed something in the next day or so that, hopefully, will help simplify the navigational aspects of what Mrshutter and Hominid are doing. By that I mean make things a bit less laborious. Robert99

Georger, It may be easier and faster to just start with a blank sheet of paper and reinvent the Cooper case out of whole cloth. I may be smiling but it is in disbelief. Robert99

Yep NOTHIN spelled N O T H I N! Take a high colonic and call 377 in the mourning. Did you stay up all night monitoring this thread like an honest conspiracy theorista !? Don't get your ass arrested wandering around NE of Amboy looking for something that isn't there! Have you now added 377 to the list of people you don't like? And what the heck would I be doing in Amboy? I'm not even going to the Ariel gathering this year. I never said the FBI's investigation into the chute was a conspiracy. I said it may have been flawed. I don't generally buy into conspiracy theories. Explain what you mean by 'nothin'. As usual, you try to poke holes, but forget to bring your stick. I thought I presented a pretty good case. You come back at that with 'it's nothin'. Your response was 'nothin'. EDIT: I just saw this from you: Weather Underground's historical data from the evening of the hijacking, Olympia, WA: Wind Wind Speed 13 mph (SSW) Max Wind Speed 21 mph Max Gust Speed - Visibility 10 miles Events Rain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert replies: I have seen the PDX data from Weather Underground. Olympia is north of the alleged drop zone. Portland is south. Merwin Lake lies between them. I simply offered up the north side weather. Here's the PDX data, which is not that much different. (The point is, perhaps the weather across the entire region that evening was similar) PDX data, 11/24/71: Wind Speed 10 mph (SSE) Max Wind Speed 15 mph Max Gust Speed (not given) Visibility 14 miles Events Rain Blevins, Keep in mind that Weather Underground's numbers are SURFACE (i.e., GROUND) weather and not the weather aloft that determines where the parachute is going to end up. Robert99

Amazon has her own thread, "Hang Tough Girl!", on the Bonfire forum. She checked in at 5:43PM PDT yesterday with the post: "Thanks evrybuddies .. tired .. I survive" I imagine that some have been in direct contact with her by phone and PMs. Robert99 Amazon has now posted several times within the past hour. Robert99