Robert99

There is no documentation to support Ammerman's statement about A-7s from Oakland. Instead, the hijacked airliner was trailed by a C-130 from some point north of the location where the switch from Seattle ATC to Oakland ATC was made in northern California until it landed in Reno.

Again and for the last time, you need to do some reading of the FAA Aviation Weather publications and see how the winds aloft are predicted for use in flight.

Again, there is no such thing in Aviation Weather reports as AVERAGED winds aloft. You agree above that the winds were from the Southwest at the time Cooper jumped. So what is your problem? Also, there is no evidence whatsoever that the winds aloft in the Portland area were ever from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking. What are you trying to accomplish by denying the validity of the proven weather conditions?

Flyjack, NONE of the data you posted above is from the Southeast or even the South. Everything listed above is from the Southwest. If the wind was from the Southeast it would be from 135 degrees and if it was from the South it would be from 180 degrees. But everything you list above is from 225 degrees (which is the Southwest) to 235 degrees (which is 10 degrees West of Southwest). And remember that the winds aloft are given with respect to True North. That is, with respect to the grid lines. If you are not going to make some effort to educate yourself on how winds aloft are measured then I suggest you stop posting on the subject. The FAA has excellent publications on Aviation Weather and Aircraft Navigation on their web site that can be downloaded and are free. You need to get those publications and study them.

Flyjack, ever wind you list above is from the Southwest. There is not even a hint of the wind being from the Southeast. The Portland winds and weather are for the Portland International Airport. You need to visit the FAA's web site, work your way to the FAA publications page and download their publication on Aviation Weather. It is free.

Flyjack, there is nothing to suggest that Cooper jumped 25 miles from PIA. At 8:11/12, the airliner was not more than 10 miles from PIA. Where do you get the idea that the wind velocity is averaged over an hour? The hourly sequence reports are normally prepared about 10 minutes before the hour and report the conditions at that time. Nothing is averaged over an hour. The FBI data is, of course, an estimate based on measured and estimated data. All of the weather data comes from the National Weather Service and their observers at various locations such as the PIA. The weather is always in a state of flux which is why there are hourly sequence reports and the winds aloft estimates are given for times and altitudes. Also, the ground winds at such places as PIA are given ever few minutes to aircraft that are landing and taking off.

SEATAC was about 100 Statute Miles from ever proposed jump location. The Portland weather station was on the Portland International Airport and was only about 10 to 15 miles from ever proposed jump location. Weather Underground data clearly shows that the measured ground winds at PIA never exceeded about 12 MPH on the day of the hijacking. Bohan claimed it was so windy that he had trouble landing a Boeing 727 there that day.

To expand a bit further on Dr. Edward's comments above, the predicted winds aloft used by pilots for flight planning purposes on the evening of the hijacking are available somewhere on one of Shutter's sites. Also, despite some claims to the contrary, there is no evidence of any winds from the Southeast on the evening of the hijacking. The claims of a Captain Bohan of extremely high winds from the Southeast are simply not supported by the measured wind data. All winds at altitudes relevant to the hijacking were from the Southwest. The Gray AAF (Army Air Field) mentioned here was apparently located on the Fort Lewis, WA military reservation and would be on the present day Lewis-McChord Joint Base reservation. It is not the present day Gray AFB that is located adjacent to Fort Hood, Texas or maybe it is vice-versa. And neither is to be confused with Gary AFB, Texas. There was plenty of duplication of names in the WW2 and subsequent time frame.

No thanks on the unedited version but you have apparently posted it anyway. A blue Triumph sports car? Which Triumph sports car? Did LD have a passenger or baggage when he arrived? In the early 1970s I had a Triumph Spitfire sports car and things were not very roomy inside.

If I remember correctly, she already has a book out.

Not really. The word "heading" means that the wind correction angle has been applied to the calculations. Except in landing, the wind direction is always specified with respect to true north and all wind problems should be worked with respect to true directions rather than magnetic directions. An error free compass (zero deviation) points to magnetic north with wanders around north of Greenland. Consequently, the correction that must be applied to magnetic north to get to true north is called variation and is constantly changing and also varies along a given flight path. To determine a specific ground track, which is what is needed here, requires knowledge of the winds aloft, altitude, ambient temperature, and other factors. Some of these factors can be determined by simply tracking inbound and/or outbound to a VOR station on a radial. And the so-called FBI flight path clearly indicates this did not happened. Plus there is plenty of room for making mistakes in these calculations. The above is summarized from Jeppesen navigation publications.

The FBI needed to determine what "printout" is in question here, who had it, and where did they get it. There are only a limited number of sources for such a "printout", but first the FBI should determine what they are actually looking for. And I do believe they were attempting to do that.

The "NWA communications network" was the ARINC (Aeronautical Radio Incorporated) communications system which was a subscription service for the airline industry. ARINC had its own radio frequencies and normally communicated by VHF with the airliners and then passed that information on to the various airline facilities by teletypes. If ARINC taped the VHF radio communications (which is entirely possible), then that tape may be what is referred to above. In the hijacking, ARINC also established a radio and telephone link between the airliner and NWA stations. ARINC may have taped this link also. Or someone at NWA or on the airliner may have taped the previous conversation as discussed previously. Where this tape came from and what was taped is not entire clear.

Okay, here is the good news. If the tape recorder had previously been started on a time standard signal and this recording was used to determine that Cooper jumped at 8:11 PM PST, then the people who claim a later jump time are just blowing smoke and don't know what they are talking about. "Voice recorder tape printout" is a confusing term. The ARINC teletype system print outs related to the hijacking were received at the NWA Station at SEATAC (where George Harrison was the Station Chief) and "probably" at the NWA Headquarters in Minneapolis (although I don't think this point has been established). When the ARINC radio and telephone link was established, apparently both the NWA SEATAC and NWA Minneapolis stations could talk directly to the airliner and probably with each other. But the airliner had to transmit/receive over the same ARINC radio channel and the communicator in the airliner had to key the microphone to transmit and "unkey" the microphone to receive. So if the recorder in question (and it wasn't the CVR) was in the cockpit it probably belonged to one of the crew members and could conceivable record both the outgoing transmissions (if it was close to the transmitting microphone) and the incoming transmissions if they were being received on the cockpit speaker (if the aircraft had one and it probably did). The cockpit also had jacks for headsets (Anderson was apparently wearing one) and may have had one that was compatible with the recorder in question. Someone at SEATAC or Minneapolis may have had the recorder in question. But if either of these three cases is correct, then the "tape printout" would have to be done by hand. All of the above leads me to believe that it is the ARINC teletype printouts that are referenced.

Communications from the airliner were all over radio transceivers which required that a microphone be keyed to transmit and they could not receive while transmitting. Keeping an open microphone in the airliner was not realistic. The printouts apparently refer to the ARINC teletype printouts and George Harrison's family loaned a copy of some of those printouts to the WSHM a few years ago.

As Shutter has pointed out on his site, the Cockpit Voice Recorder used a loop tape that was overwritten ever 30 minutes. Since the airliner flew for almost another three hours after the last contact with Cooper, that last contact would have been overwritten about six times. So there is nothing on that recorder tape related to Cooper's voice.

Blevins, are you saying that your private dick hasn't checked out ParrotheadVol? Are you trying to give PV an inferiority complex? Why doesn't he deserve to be vetted like everyone else?

The above is nonsense. Flyjack, the airliner was using VORTACs for radio navigation and not I-5. And based on the weather the airliner was experiencing, it is highly unlikely that they could even see I-5 or any other ground objects in the first place.

Again, Rataczak did not have x-ray eyes to see through those cloud layers that were beneath the airliner and did not know what terrain they were over. If Rataczak means 28 miles north of the Portland International Airport when Cooper jumped, then the so-called FBI flight path lists the airliner as being at that point at 8:07 PM. So his statement does NOT even agree with the FBI flight path.

What is the source of your claim that Rataczak said "Cooper jumped about 28 miles North" of wherever? In the printed version of Rataczak's remarks to the NWA retirees, he doesn't give a location. He only says that he told whoever he was talking to on the radio (presumably the ARINC frequency) to "mark your maps." That simple remark also suggests that Rataczak wasn't sure of his location at that moment since the onboard VORTAC data was more accurate in the Portland area than data from a radar station which was 60 or 70 miles away. This also admits to the possibility that the airliner was not tracking down the centerline of V-12 but was flying headings to the Canby Intersection area and did not have relevant "to-from" information to any VORTAC.

There is no documentation for what you suggest in the last paragraph above.

Now you are claiming that Rataczak knew where the Portland City Limits were. Next, you will probably claim that he could see the REI store in Portland. Just remember that it was in actual fact a dark and stormy night and the flight crew could not see the ground because of the clouds below them.

First, you need to actually read what I posted. If you have ever seen the glow of a large city at night through several cloud layers, you know that you cannot pinpoint your position from that glow. And you are saying that the airliner flew "over the Western side of Portland"? OMG, Blevins has just posted that everyone knows that is impossible and ridiculous. Who to believe?

Blevins, so now you are an expert on aircraft navigation. Do you know which end of a compass points north?

"If the 'pressure bump' occurred over the Columbia River Rataczak would have known it." Just exactly how would Rataczak have known this? Rataczak was at 10,000 feet above the ground which he could not see due to an overcast and several cloud layers under the airliner. Further, the Columbia River is not even shown on the radio navigation charts that Rataczak was using. Further, neither Rataczak or Himmelsbach saw the money before it was given to Cooper.