Robert99

Just like most things in the Cooper world, there are multiple versions of ever event.

Yes. After finally agreeing to takeoff with the stairs up, Cooper reportedly told Tina that he knew the aircraft could take off with the stairs down (but presumably unlocked). This statement presumably originated with Tina.

So within a year of Cooper, which would be late 1972, everyone had to pass through metal detectors and ID's were required? Post 1972, I was passing through airline terminals at Los Angeles, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Dallas, St. Louis, Memphis, Chicago, Atlanta, Dulles, Philadelphia, and numerous other locations on a regular basis. I don't remember even seeing a metal detector in an airport in the 1970s. Nor do I remember being asked for my ID just to buy a ticket. Slim King, your claims are nonsense.

This post is nonsense. No one, repeat no one, was trying to have a "TSA style air traffic lockdown" in 1971. In the early 1970s, I was flying the airlines regularly for business and personal travel. The worst thing and only thing I personally saw related to security, and it was bad enough, was young black men routinely being pulled out of the ticket line and "interviewed". And ever black man I saw interviewed passed the interview. I have driven over Snoqualmie Pass and lived close to it for several years a long time ago. This pass did not have anything, repeat anything, to do with the Cooper hijacking. It was never even mentioned. So less nonsense please.

Again, Cossey didn't provide any parachutes that were used in the hijacking despite his claims and the above article. And the FBI was still trying to get in touch with Cossey in the early morning of Thanksgiving Day which was several hours after the airliner had landed in Reno.

Additionally, there is no evidence whatsoever that an NB-6 or NB-8 parachute had anything to do with the hijacking. Hayden's two backpack parachutes were assembled by Cossey from parts of other military surplus parachute equipment.

And if I remember correctly, the FBI was unable to contact Cossey until well after midnight on the morning of Thanksgiving Day which was several hours after the airliner landed in Reno. So to repeat, Cossey didn't have anything to do with getting the parachutes to Cooper. Further, the information that Cossey put out later about the parachutes was factually false. Just ignore everything that Cossey claimed and you will be on safe ground.

This has been discussed at length over the years and the way the back packs were obtained is known. NWA personnel contacted an individual they knew at Boeing Field and that guy got in contact with a fellow known as Hayden who provided his two back packs to the FBI. The chest packs came from a skydiver operation and I don't remember exactly how they were contacted. Check the original posts for more details. But again, Cossey basically didn't have anything to do with obtaining the parachutes.

Just ignore everything that Cossey claimed and you won't have a problem. Basically, he did not have anything to do with getting the parachutes. NWA personnel got all of them by one means or the other.

The questions and comments that Dr. Edwards has on the differing times has already been explained and discussed at length on this site and Shutter's site over the last decade. The simple explanation is that the people who got the earlier times were listening to the voice radio patch and the people with the later times got those from the ARINC teletype posts of those voice radio patches. Fred Poynter of the WSHM and I discussed this very point with ARINC personnel at their headquarters. The communications between aircraft and ARINC stations were made by voice radio under all conditions in this hijacking. When the phone patch was made, NWA personnel could also listen to the ARINC voice communications with the airliner and, apparently, talk to the airliner crew directly. Nevertheless, voice calls from the airliner to the ARINC ground stations still went through a process called "formatting" by ARINC ground personnel who then sent a brief description of the call through the ARINC teletype system to the appropriate NWA offices. This "formatting" and typing in the message could take several minutes depending on the length of the message. When the ARINC teletype operator pushed the "send" button on his machine, the time was automatically added to the end of the message. As Dr. Edwards points out, this difference in times is obvious in several instances where the times of the voice message are given, and the times of the teletype transcripts are available. The earlier times are the most accurate ones for the aircraft to be at a given location. The later times absolutely do not mean that the proposed jump zones should be moved further south. Nor do they change the flight path.

A photograph of him that shows the bottom insignias with enough detail to be read will be greatly helpful. And one in any uniform showing him wearing a parachutist badge on his left breast would be great. Note that he already has airborne patches on his hat and left shoulder. If his DD-214 is available, it should explain everything.

Not necessarily. The uniform looks about normal for paratroopers in the Korean era that I knew. But does anyone have a better picture of the two bottom brass insignias on his collar?

The only agenda for supporting the Western Flight Path, as it is now called, is to fit the facts to the data. What is your agenda?

I am going from memory on this but the nominal Columbia River water surface at Tena Bar is only about 5 feet above sea level and the Pacific Ocean is about 95 river miles away. I have seen information on maps related to Tena Bar that the nominal tidal effect is only about 1 to 2 feet. At higher river levels, such as the spring runoff, the tidal effect would be much less and probably of no significance.

Georger, this is just more of your dis-information. You do not want facts. NO ONE, repeat NO ONE, has ever said that the WSHM claimed that the FBI redacted the ATC transcripts. The WSHM has done an analysis of the ARINC teletype transcripts and concluded that some of them are missing. I will take full credit for pointing out that there are 19 redacted areas in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts. All of those transcripts were recorded and are apparently being held by the FAA in concert with the FBI. The FBI would be the one to do the redacting to prevent the public release of that information for investigative reasons. And I have also pointed out repeatedly that the Oakland ATC radio transcripts are classic examples of how air traffic control worked in the 1971 time frame.

The airliner was north of Portland when it was assigned 133.9 and Redmond was at least 125 statute air miles away with plenty of mountains and such in between. The airliner's radios probably had a maximum output of 25 watts. Also, the airliner had at least two radio transceivers and I presume they were identical. My guess is that the 125 miles was beyond the distance capability under the circumstances. Further, it is my understanding that the Apollo 11 moon rocket and lander transmitted and received everything from/to the earth over a modified 25 watt transceiver. But neither the FAA nor NWA 305 had the advantage of a 200 foot disc for transmissions and reception. As Dr. Edwards has repeatedly pointed out, no one is really going to know exactly what happened with 133.9 until the appropriate FAA and ARINC radio and teletype transcripts are released.

Georger, I don't know what you are getting at here but surely you do understand that VHF radios have a distance limitation as well as a line-of-sight limitation. Those are the exact reasons that the FAA has additional receiving/transmitting radio facilities along the airways. In the case of V-23, the aircraft have to be at or above 10,000 feet Above Sea Level to be assured of being able to communicate with the controllers on the segment south of Seattle and Portland.

Georger's new career as this site's Grammer policeman has not gotten off to a good start.

Georger, you finally got something right. Congratulations.

Georger, I don't know what point, if any, you are getting at here. But here are some simple facts. The MCA (Minimum Communications Altitude) for the Seattle to Portland segment of V-23 is 10,000 feet Above Sea Level and that is the altitude the airliner was trying to maintain. This means that the navigational aids defining V-23 and the communications with the appropriate controllers could be received at 10,000 feet ASL or higher along that segment. There is in fact an FAA procedure for handoffs between controllers. The transferring controller contacts the receiving controller by telephone (see the Oakland ATC radio transcripts for controllers doing this) and the two controllers discuss the handoff. When the receiving controller states that he sees the transponder return for the aircraft in question, and the transferring controller agrees with him, then they can make the handoff. The transferring controller tells the airliner to contact Seattle Center (in this case) on a given frequency. The airliner switches to that frequency and tells the receiving controller its identity and altitude. The receiving controller tells the airliner to "ident" which means to push the "ident" button on its transponder. When the receiving controller sees the transponder's response he will say something like "radar contact" and may make additional comments. At this point, the transferring controller will consider the handoff completed if he has stayed on the telephone which is likely. In the matter of NWA 305, the transferring and receiving controllers would have been in telephone contact with each other and the receiving controller would know which transponder represented the aircraft that he expected to contact him. But the transferring controller apparently gave the airliner the wrong frequency. Nevertheless, if the receiving controller does not hear from the airliner in another minute or two he is going to be back in touch with the transferring controller and telling him that the airliner has not contacted him. And if the airliner cannot contact anyone on the new frequency it will also be back in touch with the transferring controller in a couple of minutes. In all likelihood, the wrong frequency situation would have been cleared up within two or three minutes. Certainly not 14 minutes. Georger, you need to read the last paragraph of Dr. Edwards' post that you cited. Dr. Edwards was apparently referring to some ARINC teletype transcripts that were "missing" from the transcripts made available to the WSHM and which Chaucer claims or denies, I'm not sure which at this point, that Larry Carr told him that he had seen and expected them to be released soon.

This is just more mis-information from Georger.

Georger, you apparently still don't understand that the ARINC teletype transcripts and the Seattle ATC radio transcripts are different items as I have pointing out here for about the last 13+ years. In your quote above, the WSHM states that there are eight areas of missing or redacted teletype print copies between 4:45 PM PST and 8:24 PM PST. These "areas" could include more than one teletype print message. Several of these messages were apparently sent before the airliner even landed at SEATAC at about 5:30 PM PST. According to Chaucer, Larry Carr has said that he has seen the missing teletype print copies that the WSHM refers to in their analysis. So Carr has apparently responded directly to this matter. Shifting now to the Seattle ATC radio transcripts, there are 10 redacted areas prior to 8:24 PM PST and nine redacted areas after that time. You must understand that the air traffic controllers were not involved in the ARINC radio and teletype communications or vice versa. There is nothing to be confused about here. This has been plainly discussed for more than a decade on this thread and is as simple as can be. If you don't understand it then you need to do some research into aircraft communications, and I have previously listed a number of FAA publications (which are free and downloadable on their site) that explains this further.

Georger, you need a crash course in Logic 101.00000001. If I didn't post my "claims" (or whatever you are referring to) how would you know that I had made any? And what question did I fail to answer and who was the guy that asked it?

How many three letter organizations can you name that have been mentioned in the discussion of the hijacking?

Georger, the "Poster-who-must-not-be-named" is you as you well know. And I believe this was actually posted on DropZone about 10 years ago. Since you have refused to reveal any aeronautical qualifications that you may have, it is safe to assume that you don't have any.