Robert99

Military parachutes in the post WW2 era had packing slots and cards. And in all probability the rigger (or loft) kept a separate log of all the parachutes they packed and/or repaired, etc.. Civilian riggers keep a log of the emergency parachutes they pack and my rigger, and skydiving instructor, has my autograph in his logbook. And suitable refreshments from me accompanied that logbook signing. I have flown wearing 24-foot seat packs that had packing cards. I have descended on a 24-foot reserve parachute but landed in some trees and didn't make it all the way to the ground. I have seen helicopter pilots wearing emergency parachutes under certain circumstances. I owned and flew a Navy NB-6 with a 26-foot conical canopy until just a few months before the Cooper hijacking. The Hayden rig at the WSHM has a 28-foot canopy which can be determined by just looking at it. Since Hayden said both of his parachutes were similar, it can be assumed that Cooper jumped with a 28-foot canopy. All members of a USA military flight crew would receive instructions on bailing out and parachute descents and landings. This would be mandatory.

Chaucer, your claims above are nonsense. Air Traffic Control told the airliner crew before they took off in Seattle to "do whatever you have to do and we will keep people out of your way". Basically, that was the entire "prescribed flight path". The airliner was free to go anywhere it wanted to. ATC knew where the airline was during the entire flight from Seattle to Reno since it was transmitting a transponder code during that time. "The entire military-security apparatus of the United States either overlooked or actively covered it up for unknown reasons" is almost partly true. The military apparatus didn't overlook or cover up anything that evening. But the FBI, if that is what you call the "security apparatus", has prevented the unredacted Seattle ATC radio communications transcripts from being released. Chaucer, it should be noted for your benefit that neither the FBI nor FAA has denied the existence of the unredacted Seattle ATC radio transcripts. The FBI has prevented their release and the FAA defers to the FBI since this is a criminal case.

Chaucer, we do agree on one thing. And that is you are wasting your time with the above post. After the airliner took off from Seattle, the ground winds didn't mean a thing. It was the winds aloft that were important and the winds were never greater than about 35 knots at 10,000 feet, and also entirely from the southwest (225 degrees true), during the entire flight to Reno. The winds aloft above 10,000 feet don't mean a thing either. You and Chaucer need to get the FAA aviation weather book mentioned earlier. Both of you know less about aviation weather than any 16- or 17-year-old boy or girl who takes the written test to get a pilot's license.

FlyJack, the only wind data available for the evening of the hijacking is that produced by the National Weather Service and that includes such things as the NOAA balloon data, the FAA hourly sequence reports for the various airports that have a Flight Service Station, or its equivalent for the weather data, on site. Tom Kaye has obtained and posted all of the above information that is relevant to the hijacking. All predictions of the future weather must be based on that data since there is no other data. You and Chaucer seem to feel that you have other sources for weather data. Just exactly what are those sources? The political term "alternate data" won't work here. Why do you and Chaucer refuse to get a copy of the FAA's publication "Aviation Weather" and study it? Knowledge is power.

FlyJack, your claim to having information that is somewhere beyond top secret and cannot be released to mere mortals is nothing but a cop out. EU and others, and that includes me, have posted their work and publicly stood by it for better or worse. Just take EU up on his invitation and prove everyone else wrong. In the meantime, put up or shut up.

Flyjack, in case you didn't get the memo, the time and place of Cooper's jump is not known with certainty.

Flyjack, it has already been posted and discussed on Shutter's site. I suggest you check there.

Georger, as you well know or at least should know unless you have got your head up your own ass, I have never said any such thing about Soderlind. But just exactly what did Soderling say? If I remember correctly, Dr. Edwards has pointed out that the FBI has never released Soderlind's information.

I have corrected the typos in your response above which now correctly reads: "Sorry for the typo - are you happy now? (Signed) Prick." Georger, you need a spelling and grammar checker.

Georger, just exactly where is the BTL VOR?

Did they take their notes as they listened or did they write them up, or add to them, later? Do you know where the teletype machine was located? Was it in the same room with them? Who was acting as the "communicator" with the aircraft? The communicator would probably be the NWA Chief Pilot at SEATAC (Lee ???) but George Harrison would be on that phone patch in Seattle as well. Soderlind was also on the phone patch in Minneapolis.

They were obviously not on the phone patch and were getting their times from the teletype printouts. Are the Stuart and Jim McClellands you mentioned the same person?

Olemiss, contrary to your claim the 8:18 PM time is the time that the airline crew radioed the ARINC facility that they were 23 DME nautical miles south of the Portland VORTAC (now the Battleground VORTAC). Some personnel, but not everyone, at the NWA facility at SEATAC were plugged into a phone patch with the ARINC facility and were talking directly with the flight crew at 8:18 so that time is valid. Normally, the ARINC facility passed messages from aircraft crews to their airline through a teletype network. After getting the radio message, the ARINC personnel would have to "format" (their term) the message and type it into the teletype system. The time that the teletype message was sent was automatically entered at the end of the message when the typist pushed the "send" button. So the 8:22 time shown on the teletype copy of this exchange is the time it was sent. But the airliner was at the 23 DME mark at 8:18. The above has been pointed out numerous times over the last 14 years so it is nothing new. Just a simple explanation of something some people don't seem to understand.

Georger, you are the one with the obsession.

Georger, goggle "FAA Air Traffic Control History" and work your way to the appropriate section that defines and explains how "shrimp boats" were actually used in early air traffic control. I'm sure you will learn something. But "shrimp boats" were not used in 1971.

Georger, both of the links that you have provided have big time problems. The one above describes "shrimp boats" in the same manner as the RAF model. You have described "shrimp boats" as being paper cards on something like a name plate fixture as in the last paragraph above. These cards are actually shown in one of the links you provided. In neither case is the location of the aircraft written on those cards. Basically, the term "mark your shrimp boats" doesn't mean anything especially in the 1971 time frame. If the hijacked airliner was tracking V-23, it could have provided its exact location to the Seattle Center in 10 seconds (I timed it).

The brass holder with a paper page inserted in it was not a "shrimp boat". A shrimp boat was something that you may have seen in pictures of the RAF Fighter Command. The RAF shrimp boats were on a large scale map of Southern England and were moved regularly as the locations of the RAF fighters and German aircraft engaged. The set-up just described was used to maximize the efficiency of the RAF aircraft and it worked. The RAF fighters won the Battle of Britian thanks to such command actions and the introduction of radar.

Georger, contrary to your claim the Columbia River does NOT flow "east to west by Tena Bar". The Columbia River flows south to north at Tena Bar and for several miles both south and north of Tena Bar. To be more precise, specifically at Tena Bar the Columbia River actually flows at approximately 002 degrees with respect to True North. If the airliner was on a straight line between the Malay and Canby Intersections, it would have passed about 1000 feet to the west of Tena Bar and would have flown straight down the Columbia River for several miles.

It is surprising that the crew didn't record their location when they thought Cooper had jumped since they had been told to flash their navigation lights when he did. The airliner did have two knotted ropes (not ladders) in the cockpit for the crew to exit thru the cockpit windows when they couldn't exit thru the cabin. These ropes were permanently installed and are included in present day large aircraft.

Basically, the airliner's onboard navigational instruments will provide a more accurate determination of its position than the Air Force's radar. The USAF radar was located at McChord AFB and was probably the same radar that the Seattle Center's Air Traffic Control personnel were using. The airliner had two VOR receivers, two DME receivers, and two ADF receivers plus some additional avionics such as a Marker Beacon Receiver. When Rataczak told the Seattle air traffic controller to "mark his shrimp boats", which is a term that I have never heard before in civilian air traffic control, he implied that he didn't know his own location and that he was off the airways. Otherwise, he could have simply said "we are XX miles from YYY VORTAC and on radial ZZZ" and the controller would have instantly known where he was and with greater precision than anything from radar blips.

The only thing secret about the Western Flight Path is that the actual Seattle air traffic control communications have been heavily redacted. As you have repeatedly been informed over the last 14 years, if you want to know how the Seattle air traffic control communications should look all you have to do is look at the Oakland Center's communications with the aircraft. The Oakland Center's and Reno Tower's communications are textbook examples of how things were done in 1971.

Actually, I do know of instances where a "differing interpretation" killed someone. And I have been an eye witness to one such instance.

Anyone who sticks with facts won't have a problem with me. I have been dealing with Mother Nature since I was a teenager and have found her to be a very unforgiving taskmaster. That is, you stick to facts or she will deliver your head to you on a silver platter. She does not like wild speculations or conjectures. Just the facts!

I am not a psychologist, but I have had training in management which included some human relations training. And I have had leadership training in the military. I have stuck to my strongest point in posts here, which is aviation. As I stated about 14 years ago, I will leave everything that involves looking through a microscope or telescope to other people.

Georger, you didn't list any aviation background information for yourself. And you do not acquire an aviation background through DNA. My brothers and I were still very young when WW2 ended. But uncles and older cousins served in the military. One cousin was killed in a tank battle in Germany in early 1945. A friend of the family was killed at Guadalcanal. Another friend of the family went down with his ship in the North Atlantic. Such things were common to the majority of American families in WW2. Since WW2 my brothers and I along with other relatives have served in the military. Most recently, a young nephew served in Afghanistan. One of my WW2 memories is that I saw one of the Japanese balloon bombs in flight over central Washington State where I lived. A couple of P-38s were flying around it and shot it down when it got over a sparsely settled area. As I have related previously, I have been a pilot since the age of 15 and have held several FAA pilot ratings. I have also held all FAA ground instructor ratings for general aviation that were available when I was active. Educationally, I have a BS in Aeronautical Engineering plus two additional college degrees. Further, I have taken any number of additional college courses in mathematics and engineering related subjects. I have 300+ graduate and undergraduate college semester hours. Professionally, I worked as an Aeronautical Engineer for DOD, from which I am retired, primarily in the development of technology for new aircraft concepts. However, along with about 10,000 other contractor, military, and DOD personnel, I did spend a couple of years on a certain aircraft program that was moving from the YF- demonstrator stage to the F- production stage. That aircraft is in the news this very day and I hope the Ukrainians get a lot of them. I have never claimed superiority to any of the people you list. Conversely, I am fully qualified to do my own analysis on most aviation matters and will seek the advice of specialists in fields that I am not familiar with.