Robert99

I have done exactly that repeatedly over the last years. It is obvious that you haven't read any posts related to the Western Flight Path or my experiences with FAA and FBI FOIA requests.

So Major Larson didn't have anything to do with calculating the flight path. This means that we are back to trying to determine where the so-called FBI Flight Path came from. And to their credit in my opinion, the FBI apparently didn't have anything to do with calculating that flight path.

You seem to have missed the point that the FBI is sitting on the "compelling evidence".

If any progress is to be made in this hijacking, the actual flight path must be determined. The evidence for the Western Flight Path has been discussed at length over the last 14 years. All you need to do is read the posts.

As Chaucer should be aware of if he has done any meaningful research on the matter, what is now known as the Western Flight Path has been discussed at length on this site and Shutter's site for the last 14 years. It is highly unlikely that Chaucer has held the "original [ARINC] teletype printout" in his hands. There are only a very limited number of "original" copies of that printout and the NWA Seattle copy (or at least most of the original) is in the Harrison papers. Chaucer, has claimed recently to have all the information on the hijacking or whatever, so I eagerly await seeing some real data from him. Chaucer, the ball is in your court.

Actually, the Harrison version of the ARINC teletype transcripts does contain some information that is not related to Flight 305. The Seattle ATC radio transcripts were prepared under the supervision of Gerald Osterman who made the certification referred to above by FlyJack. It is those original transcripts that Osterman certified that I am trying to get a copy of, and they do exist in the FAA and FBI files.

Enough information to determine the actual flight path of the airliner in the Seattle/Portland area. There are several factors related to the flight path, and which have not been discussed here, that knowing the actual flight path could clarify.

Georger, this is just more of your nonsense. I have not ignored any issues. I know what Tena Bar is like since I have been there several times and so has Ulis as well as Josh Gates. You have not been to Tena Bar but are now trying to represent yourself as an "expert" on it and the surrounding area. There is absolutely no way that the money found at Tena Bar could have come from the mainstream of the Columbia River by natural means. How it could have gotten there has been discussed here at length for more than 10 years. Anyone interested in the matter can look up those posts. GEORGER, NEITHER THE FAA NOR THE FBI HAS DENIED THE EXISTENCE OF THE UNREDACTED SEATTLE ATC RADIO TRANSCRIPTS! Only people without any qualifications to speak on the matter claim that the unredacted transcripts don't exist.

Just what are the "established facts as we know them"? And just who established those "facts"? I think you have as much of a burden to prove your claims as anyone. Otherwise, you are just accepting something that someone else claims. For your information, there are probably not more than five provable "facts", based on present information, related to the flight path from Seattle to the point where the airliner gave its DME distance from what is now known as the Battleground VORTAC. There are some other odd things about the flight path segment mentioned above that have not been discussed on this forum or any other. Maybe Chaucer has figured them out since he claims to have ALL the information on the subject. In the meantime, I am sure that you will stick with your "established facts". Good luck!

Chaucer, if you have any aeronautical qualifications why do you refuse to list them? Anyone with even a limited knowledge of how air traffic control worked in the 1971-time frame can compare the Seattle ATC radio transcripts with the Oakland ATC radio transcripts and tell that the Seattle transcripts have been redacted. The FAA and the FBI have those unredacted transcripts. The FAA was required to keep those unredacted transcripts and the FBI is the agency that won't release them for some unknown reason. And for the record, neither the FAA nor the FBI has ever denied the existence of the unredacted Seattle ATC transcripts. The Western Flight Path has been discussed at length here for the last 14 years. I look forward to your providing "some real evidence, some real data, some document, some real witness statements" that prove your own theories on the flight path assuming you have any in the first place. In the meantime, I suggest you start stocking up on those towels.

I "think" you are going to need a lot of towels to wipe something off your face in due time.

Chaucer, your great big ego is fully on display here. Where and what is this "accepted USAF flight path" that you mentioned? Is it the so-called "FBI flight path"? Also, I don't do conspiracy theories.

Larson plainly stated that finding the money at Tena Bar was compatible with the flight path that he calculated. And basically, the only way that the money could get to Tena Bar is if the airliner was on the Western Flight Path and that Cooper was a no-pull. The Western Flight Path has been discussed at length on this web site since 2009 and on Shutter's web site. Anyone interested in it should check out the dozens or maybe hundreds of posts on this subject.

I certainly hope that someone will give Dr. Edwads the phone number for Larson. Tosaw's book does not have an index, and the lack of one is a crime against humanity in my opinion, so I am not going through the entire book just looking for Larson's name. However, starting on page 107 of his book, Tosaw describes his contacts with Soderlind. In summary, both Tosaw and Soderlind believed that Cooper could have landed in the Columbia River and they were not referring to the east/west section of the river. In fact, the airliner would have crossed the east/west section of the river in less than four seconds. They were referring to the north/south section of the Columbia River, on which Tena Bar is located, which the airliner would have been tracking down for several minutes. If the airliner was on the Western Flight Path, Cooper would have had to be a no-pull to land in the Columbia of close to it. If he landed in the east/west section of the river he would have had to be a no-pull or have jumped over downtown Portland. If Georger is claiming that I am jumping to conclusions, then he is speaking with a forked tongue. I developed what is now known as the Western Flight Path in 2009 which was 14 years ago. And Georger has been well aware of that since then.

Chaucer and others need to read the "D.B. Cooper Connection" section in FlyJack's post above. Major Larson plainly writes, "The finding of ransom money in the Columbia River falls within the outlines that I provided to the FBI agent back in the early 1970s." Since others are claiming that Larson and Spangler came up with the same flight path, they are saying that the above comment also applies to Spangler. Consequently, Chaucer's claim that the Western Flight Path is DOA is nonsense. I never cease to be amazed at how some people on this site can so easily ignore proven facts to push their own silly agenda.

What leads you to believe that Larson came up with the same flight path as Spangler? Where is Larson's flight path and where is Spangler's flight path? I have never seen any flight path that was credited to either one of them. Are you claiming that the so-called FBI Flight Path was prepared by one or both of them?

Larson absolutely needs the raw data which would include the Seattle ATC transcripts among other things. Both the Seattle and Oakland ATC radio transcripts were available in printed form within a week of the hijacking. And the printed ARINC transcripts were available in almost real time on the evening of the hijacking. Obviously, the FBI contacted Larson because the previous flight paths by Spangler and NWA personnel were not believable. The FBI wanted fresh eyes on the matter and the place to start is with the original data and not what other people have done or messed up.

Larson was a navigator and would be fully qualified to calculate the flight path. If someone talks to him ask him to detail exactly what information the FBI gave him to evaluate. And specifically, if the FBI gave him the Seattle ATC radio transcripts of the communications with the airliner, did he get an unredacted copy of those communications? Also, did he get a full copy of the ARINC communications transcripts between the airliner and NWA?

As I understand it, only the Rescue C-130 had visual contact with the airliner. Some of the other aircraft were able to see it on their radars but not visually.

The only aircraft that tracked the airliner all the way to Reno was the Rescue C-130 which had joined up with the airliner in Southern Oregon or Northern California. The C-130 was following the airliner when it was handed off from the Seattle Center to the Oakland Center and stayed with it until it landed in Reno. It followed behind and 1000 feet higher than the airliner.

Why did you leave out the parts about Reca being Jack the Ripper and also being responsible for sinking the Titanic?

Slim King, you simply don't know what you are talking about. I have also lived close to the Snoqualmie Pass and driven over it. And the airliner was never in that area. The 10,000 feet altitude requested was also the Minimum Obstacle Clearance Altitude and the Minimum Reception Altitude for V-23 in the flight south from Seattle. That means if the airliner were lower than 10,000 feet, there is a possibility of flying into a mountain and/or not being able to receive the radio stations that were necessary for navigation and communicating with air traffic control. I think that the Seattle radio transcripts are redacted because I have read them and know what type of information that is missing from them. As I have pointed out repeatedly before, just compare the Seattle transcripts with the Oakland transcripts and you should be able to see the difference also.

Slim King, if you are going to solve the mysteries of life you need to start paying attention to the evidence. Otherwise, you are just putting out bullshit. If you are actually interested in how the airliner got from Seattle to Reno all you have to do is read the Seattle ATC and Oakland ATC radio transcripts. The Seattle transcripts are heavily redacted, but the Oakland transcripts are classic air traffic control communications. The Oakland ATC transcripts explain in plain English how and when the airliner got from V-23 to Reno. You should give some consideration to determining what you are talking about before posting nonsense.

There are two "normal" flight paths between the Seattle VORTAC, which is located on the SEATAC airport, and the BattleGround VORTAC, which was known as the Portland VORTAC in 1971. The airliner was supposed to be generally following the V-23 airway that was a dog leg shaped route with change in direction at the MALAY Intersection, which was known as the Mayfield Intersection in 1971. The other flight path is a direct route between the SEATAC airport and the present-day Battleground VORTAC. In 1971, this route was known as V-23E but it is now known as V-495. The distance between the Seattle VORTAC and the Battleground VORTAC is 105 nautical miles along the V-23 centerline and 102 nautical miles along the V-23E (V-495) centerline. In the flight towards Reno, the airliner was told by Seattle Air Traffic Control that they were free to make any deviations from V-23 that they needed to do, and that the ATC people would keep other aircraft out of their way. Consequently, they were not required to stay on the centerline of V-23 and apparently did not do so. Their main deviation, and the most logical one, would be to bypass the Portland area on the west side in order to avoid flying over the Portland population center with a bomb on board and a nutcase that was unpredictable. More detailed analysis of this flight path has been posted on this site and Shutter's site over the years.

I know exactly what you mean by that last sentence. I have encountered quite a few of them here myself.