Robert99

Let's start casting "appropriate" actors: Charlie Sheen Robert Downey Jr Lindsay Lohan Maybe we can get Phil Spector to write the score from prison. 377 Robert Downey, Jr.? He overcame his drug problems and appears to be sane which would probably rule him out. I doubt if the same can be said of Sheen and Lohan. Would Spector get to keep any money that he earned or would that go to his victim's family? Robert Nicholson

With all the traffic today, it looks like the D. B. Cooper thread has been "discovered". If the previous 1000 pages of posts on this thread are ever reviewed by an impartial viewer, it will probably result in a screenplay for a musical. Robert Nicholson

It was a thought experiment that you became obsessed with. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't have a reason to do any other thought experiments here. It's not unethical unless I'm from the FBI, but at this stage, they're the ones expressing the most optimism. I'll go ahead and extend the offer to anyone ever affiliated with the FBI, but I want them to give me some odds. I'll gladly bet against the FBI all day long when it comes to Cooper because they've shown me that they'll never figure this out. If you're reading, I will be your counterparty and we can make a deal. I didn't realize Blevins liked to wager. I've read where he was 90% confident that KC was Cooper. If someone here is willing to split the cost to get KC's fingerprints or DNA independently tested against what the FBI has, I probably would be willing to make a wager to make it all worth our time. Blevins and KC should be out the discussion, period, and anything I could do to help expedite this, I'd probably be willing to do. The primary benefit of having Blevins involved is that his PR machine keeps Cooper in the mainstream media - but the benefit is balanced with us having to hear more and more BS that doesn't add up in the slightest. It's a bit irritating to see on TV, and even more unbearable to have to skip his posts on here whenever I make my annual visits. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way around here. Safe, I'll leave the betting to you, except as noted below. This story has been picked up by MSNBC and CNN this morning and I imagine that there will be other news organizations jumping in now. It should be noted that the FBI did not "leak" the information but, rather, "planted" it. And if the FBI identifies Cooper but doesn't have a body, I'll be interested in your odds of finding Cooper's mortal remains, if any. Finally, I am interested in doing a ground search for Cooper's remains just as long as it is not anywhere near Lake Merwin. Robert Nicholson

Jo writes: I got a call this morning regarding the news release, but have found nothing other than what you guys posted in the thread. Until I have read an actual article or know exactly what the FBI has - I hold with reservation. My blood pressure which normally reads very low at 115/66 w/ a P 58 was OFF the wall. The reading 3 hours ago was 158/83 with a P of 99...that is heart attack time for me. It has taken a tranquilizer to bring it down. I have NO idea how high it was during the 1st hour, but I was having chest pains. Jo, Just plug "D. B. Cooper" into Goggle and you will get hits from Seattle, to London, to India. You may need another tranquilizer after that. Robert Nicholson

Jo, You need to Goggle "Camp Sibert Alabama" and see what turns up. One interesting thing can be found at "http://www.coax.net/people/lwf/CMP_SBT.HTM". You might want to get a copy of that book and see if that story had anything to do with Duane. Maybe that is the reason for a cover up. Robert Nicholson

It seems obvious to me, that had Duane ever served in a formal or even a informal capacity for which there were records (of any kind) he not only could have, but would have filed for benefits later, based on that service. Duane never missed an opportunity that was a sure-fire thing. That was his nature. Duane never filed for benefits of any kind related to his supposed service, nor have you ever claimed he did or was even entitled to benefits. Thousands of veterans whose records were lost for whatever reason later filed for benefits and most got them ... It seems to me you need to be taking this up with the War Dept or somebody. ??? Jo, Georger is right about this. Why don't you take your form, and any related information, down to the local offices of a service organization such as the American Legion or Disabled American Veterans (check your local phone book for their addresses) and tell them your complete, repeat COMPLETE, story about Duane's legal and military problems. And if they don't summarily throw you out, ask if you are entitled to any federal benefits based on Duane's military service, such as it may have been. Perhaps they can provide additional information about Duane. Go in person and don't try to handle this over the phone. Good luck, and you will need it. Robert Nicholson

Jo, See my reply to your earlier post about your form for comments on this. Robert Nicholson

Jo, The good news is that I am not going to make any effort at all to obtain a copy of your form, whatever it is, from anywhere or anyone. But if you want help in understanding the information on that form, it would be nice if you could look at the bottom of the form and relay the number that you see down there. Also, there will be a title at the top of that form and it would be real sweet of you if you revealed what the title is. The remarks above and in a later post about the terms of enlistment actually make sense. That statement was typical for someone who had been drafted. But I can't state with 100 percent certainty that the statement wasn't also applicable for at least some volunteer enlistments. If you wish assistance then please restrain yourself and keep the games to a minimum. Robert Nicholson

Jo, The real question is what documents do YOU have? Back up your claims with some facts! FULL DISCLOSURE: I am NOT an FBI agent or FBI employee. In addition, along the way, I have been certified sane (or at least sane enough) as a mandatory requirement for my participation in a specific research project. Robert Nicholson

Jo, Pay attention this time! This is about the third time I have pointed this out to you! My reference to Wikipedia refered to US Military Service Numbers and NOT to Duane Weber! Even if the Wikipedia article on Duane Weber is bunk, that does NOT mean that the Wikipedia article on US Military Service Numbers is incorrect! In fact, the Wikipedia article on US Military Service Numbers agrees with my own personal experience in the US Army! Robert Nicholson

Jo, If there is no prefix in front of what you claim is Duane's serial number, then you don't have his Army serial number! Period! The number you list could be part of Duane's serial number but it is NOT his (complete) Army serial number! Where did the number come from? What is the form number that it is on? What is the date of that form? What is the title of that form? How about backing up your claims with some facts? Robert Nicholson

Orange1, For your information, Habitat For Humanity in Arizona is now helping people here who lost their homes during our recent wildfires. Robert Nicholson

QuoteNote - letters where used for RATE and NOT part of the Serial number: Robert's reply: Jo, Go to Wikipedia and search for "Service Number (United States Armed Forces)". You will find that since the WWI time period, all US Armed Forces have used service numbers that included prefixes and/or suffixes. In the Army, RA stood for Regular Army, US for Army of the United States, NG for National Guard, etc., etc.. Jo writes: Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source and you know this. Wikipedia is contributed to by the man on the street - it is NOT an Encyclopedia nor and reference guide for the military. Take what they say about Weber - it is incorrect, but since I am not the source I cannot change it even with black and white documentations...therefore inaccuracies regarding Weber remain on the site while others are able to make changes periodically. I do NOT know who created the story about Weber, but it is NOT accurate. ------------------------- Jo, Your reply above is a flagrant mis-representation of the statement of mine that is quoted just above that! I did NOT say to go to Wikipedia and search for Duane Weber! I DID say to go to Wikipedia and search for service numbers (just read what you are replying to)! If Duane Weber served in the United States Army at any time from the date of his birth in 1924 until the all volunteer Army was established in the 1970s, then his service number (serial number) had a prefix in front of it! Your deliberate ignoring of valid information simply because it doesn't show what you want it to show is beyond belief! And playing the dumb blonde card won't work this time either! Robert Nicholson

Jo, This post is in response to your post number 24856. First, a general statement. Your responses are mostly pure bunk. I am only going to reply to a few of them below. Jo writes: QuoteRpbert99 Your post always seem professional but you get a lof of your information incorrect and state things I know are NOT correct. Since you are obviously well educated I wonder why you question some things that are evident such as: Robert99 stated: "As you have previously indicated in posts on this thread, the number "35608905" is probably Duane's Army serial number during World War II. That number may have a one or two letter prefix. Perhaps there is someone on this thread that is familiar with the Army serial number system from WW2." Jo Replies: If you were actually in the know you would know there were NO letters in the yrs Duane Weber had his Navy and Army serial number althought you used appropriate wording and asked assistance from others. What you were questioning was if I could actually read the government papers and I had already assured you there were NO other letters. Robert's reply: Jo, Go to Wikipedia and search for "Service Number (United States Armed Forces)". You will find that since the WWI time period, all US Armed Forces have used service numbers that included prefixes and/or suffixes. In the Army, RA stood for Regular Army, US for Army of the United States, NG for National Guard, etc., etc.. Jo writes: Robert99, you also made the statement below: "That Maritime Commission that you refer is probably not the Navy but may be something connected with the Merchant Marine which was a civilian organization in World War 2. However, some Merchant Marines were designated as veterans a few years ago." How very wrong you were Maritime Commission was on Army Inductions. You questioned my ability to understand what I was reading and used it to manipulate the information. It didn't work as there are many older WW11 veterans right here in this thread. Robert's reply: Jo, I am sure the US Army would appreciate further enlightment from you as to what the Maritime Commission (whatever that was) had to do with inductions during WW2. Perhaps the "many older WW11 veterans right here in this thread" could help you with that. Jo writes: Well, Robert the documents I have do NOT lie and the FBI has had access to them, but as usual they just do their own thing. Rookie Agents are given assignments and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. They never cared enough to actually look at the documents and they were presented by me and by others. Robert's reply: Jo, So documents don't lie? Recently, an individual I know did a federal records search for his own name. It came back with him being linked with a woman that he had never heard of. So some fat assed bureaucrat screwed up his records either intentionally or unintentionally. Jo writes: You even write and relate the same way the FBI agents did - in particial thoughts with no research to back up what you say. This is a mind game for you and others - it is NOT for me. I have had to do the FBI's job for them and that is a terrible thing...15 yrs of my life was taken from me because NO one could see what was right in front of them. Robert's reply: Jo, YOU are the one who hasn't done any meaningful research to back up your allegations! So you have been doing the FBI's job for them? Were you recently considered as a replacement for the present FBI Director? Robert Nicholson

Jo, There are only 10 digits (0, 1, 2 , 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9). All numbers are formed using only those 10 digits. There is nothing magic about the numbers you mention in the serial numbers or anything else. You are not using the term "random numbers" correctly. And there is nothing in your explanation above that makes any sense code-wise or otherwise. Robert Nicholson

Jo, US servicemen and women were definitely fingerprinted on entering into military service during WW2. I have seen motion pictures of Graves Registration personnel fingerprinting dead soldiers and sailors. There would be no need to fingerprint them after death if they had not been fingerprinted earlier. Robert Nicholson

Jo, It took more than two arms and legs to get into the Army during WW2 and later. Even speeding tickets had to be explained and checked out. If nothing else, this is supported by the Undesirable Discharge from the Army. This particular discharge is an administrative one over which Duane would not have any control unless he wanted to argue about it. Robert Nicholson

Smokin99, Your idea about the paperwork being slow is entirely possible. And if he was in the Navy under another name it would further delay the finger print checks. Also, remember that in that period all finger print and other checks had to be made by office personnel. No such thing then as computer databases. Wouldn't it take a federal charge to put Duane in McNeil? And if he was there within five weeks of being arrested in Chicago, it must have involved a prior conviction of some sort. Robert Nicholson

Jo, That proves that your story is all nonsense! Trust me! Robert Nicholson

Jo writes: I do not know how to explain to you the sequence of numbers but I did it several ways and the odd man out was the 7's. Then I looked at the placement of the 7's and realized they were the turners (I do NOT know what coders call these things so forgive my ignorance). The first 7 is followed by 698. this give you 96 and 89. The second 7 step back for the number 2 and forward for the 35 in reverse. Using the 7's as turners you have Duane's Navy # and his Army number. Remember zeros do not count in the code. 35608905 35 is the first but on the code 35 is reversed on the end. 89 is the being of the second set with the 0 being the turner making it 98. The second 0 is another turner followed by 5 pick up the five and take foruward and that give you 35. You can do this with both serial numbers with the 7 as turners in the 7698QA2753 and 0 as the turners in the army number. QA is simple Question/Answer? He is presenting the Answer to who he is and challenges them with Quest to figure it out. OKAY none of this will make any sense to anyone but me - I will be accused of grabbing for straws, but if I ever saw that group of numbers (or Code) sent to the FBI - I might have been having a Brain Fart day and this may be by far the biggest STINK I ever made. When I saw it I felt like I had seen it and it had been explained to me. Now EVEN I think I am delusional. Jo, You are right. The above line of reasoning doesn't make sense. How did you determine that the number 7 was a "turner"? Why don't zeroes count in this code? Why are zeroes the "turner" in the serial number? Why do zeroes count in this code? What do the numbers you come up with mean? You are going from a number with a known meaning, the serial number, to numbers that don't mean anything. What is the point of this whole exercise? This manipulation of numbers is not a code, not logical, and, in short, is just a bunch of nonsense. The clown who wrote that letter to the LA Times apparently had the foresight to see, that in about 40 years, the personal computer would have been invented and the Internet would come into being. He would realize that there would be a number of people on such threads as this one with too much time on their hands. So to insure that we would waste our time in an appropriate manner, he concocted the cock and bull story that appeared in the letter to the LA Times. The rest is history. Robert Nicholson

Wow....talk about significant dates. I'm surprised no one has commented on this coincidence? Kind of freaky, huh? We were discussing whether or why DB might have picked the day that he did....maybe there was a personal reason?? Just throwing it out there

No prefixes or suffixes. Army address on letter sent to his mother in CA Love Dusty, Duane L. Weber 35608905 Co D - 2st CWS (cannot make out if this is TWS or CWS) Tng Regt. Camp Sibert, AL The letter speaks of the "chemical end" like his Uncle. He is requesting his watch because he needed it in the field and thank his mom for the $1 and for washing his clothes and then states he won't be able to wear them when he gets home. The Certificate I got from the FBI shows March 31, 1943 to July 14, 1943 Undesirable Disharge - Private. The first one I had before the FBI entered the picture had NO DISCHARGE DATE. Discharge date stated "dates unknown". My correspondence with the Veterans affairs - indicated they did NOT have a discharge date. This document is dated Sept 5, 2000. Why did it change after the FBI disputed Duane was never in the ARMY and I had this document in my hands? This mean my dispute with the FBI was in 2001. I kept a log, but too tired to look it up. I did get another one with both dates on it in Sept of 2001. His date of death (3/2895) is on this first form, but I questioned WHY no discharge date until the FBI learned I had knowledge and proof Duane Weber had been in the ARMY. The FBI agent on the phone told me that Duane WAS NEVER in the Navy and the number belonged to a man by the name of WAVY GREENE (I do not know the spelling on that). This is when I informed him I had the documentation and it did NOT belong to WAVY GREENE. This will continue to be a puzzle to me. 5 and 6 where answered in the prior post. Don't think he was there long enough for that - A friend of the family wrote John about seeing Duane at Camp Sibert and talked about his taking the Commander in Chief's vehicle on a joy ride. Seems his dismissal from the Navy was after he had spent some time in the brigg after hitting a 90 day wonder in the head with a bottle of Carstars (havent a clue how to spell that). This incident happened Off base and was about a girl..Duane told me this story and the sister also knew the story regarding the brigg. More information thanyou asked for and/or needed to know, but hope this will help. This is ALL I believe I know about the Army or the Navy. There is the 3rd person story about FT. Benning. This was about his knowing someone who took someone elses place in Ft. Benning. Bear in mind Duane did manage to pose as an Attorney in Treasure Island - so you know I believe this 3rd party story was also Duane. He had told me the guy was found out in a couple of month and I have to assume 'Poofed' like he did so many times. I do know Duane ends up back in CA a few months later. This is when he gets in trouble and ends up in McNeil after being sentenced in San Franciso County to McNeil in early 1945. P.S. Duane knew where very base was - he spoke often of Camp Pendleton and Ft. Lewis. One would get the impression he actually was on those bases. He pointed out McChord and every base we came near in our travels. He was very familiar with WA and OR bases - such as Camp Pendleton - told me about the jumpers there and how they could not go into the restaurants...and going to get food for them. I just don't know why all of Duane's stories about WA and OR and ID indicate he spent lots of time there, but NO one remembers him. I guess he was just a Ghost....no one remembers. Jo, As pointed out in the previous post, if Duane had received a Bad Conduct Discharge from the Navy he would not have been permitted into the Army. Consequently, I have no idea what the Camp Sibert, AL information means. But the good news is that an Undesirable Discharge is actually a step up from a Bad Conduct Discharge. Apparently, an Undesirable Discharge did not create a federal criminal record. So there is a possibility that the FBI is right and Duane was never in the Navy. Do you know when Duane's federal criminal record started? Incidentally, Camp Pendleton is in southern California just south of LA and not in WA or OR. Robert Nicholson

I will answer the questions as best as I can and one at a time 1. Do you know if Duane served in the Army and then the Navy, or was it the Navy and then the Army. (note Duane elderly and deaf brother obtained some of this for me from the family record which now seems to have gone POOF. A. Navy then Army. B. Duane 1st tried to join up by falsifying his age - declaring he was born on June 18 1922. Since this Registration card says Maritime Commission serial # 91-A and guess that would be Navy. (of course he was unable to produce the birth certificate). I do have a copy he tried to alter. Then on Jun 18, 1941 he actually got in on his 17th birthday. His mother gave permission or maybe not - this has always been a real mess. Because the McNeil Island prison has his birthday as June 18, 1920...but he was NOT born until 1924. This form is NOT dated, unless the other thing is a copy of the back. That is dated Nov. 12, 1942. Gives his height as 5'11" and his weight as 167 lbs. All the card says is Selective Service Local Board No. 13 of Summit county, Ohio of Akron, Ohio. 2. Do you know if Duane was drafted or volunteered for service in the Army and/or Navy? A. I guess from this you could say 1st time around he tried to enlist and when he was enlisted with his mothers permission. B. NRS Cleveland 6/18/41 6/19/41 AS NRS Newport 6/28/41 to 827/41 AS US NAS Jacksonville 8/28/41 to 05/30/42 AS Sea2c Discharged May 30 1942 - BAD CONDUCT DISCHARGE. Then it gets really interesting, but later and we learn the BAD boy things. He was a kid trying to be a Man. (he was the baby of the family and born late in life.) Of Course that was NOT an excuse back in those days. Jo, Let me see if I can answer, or at least comment on, some of the above matters. You may need to get bottle of your favorite beverage and find a good chair that you can't fall out of accidentally. That Maritime Commission that you refer is probably not the Navy but may be something connected with the Merchant Marine which was a civilian organization in World War 2. However, some Merchant Marines were designated as veterans a few years ago. Your paragraph 2B has a number of abbreviations. Based on WW2 information on the Internet, "NRS" stands for Naval Recruiting Station (those would be Cleveland, Ohio and Newport, Rhode Island), "AS" stands for Apprentice Seaman, "US NAS" would be US Naval Air Station (Jacksonville, Florida). The "Sea2C" would be Seaman 2nd Class. It is a mystery to me why Duane would have dealings with a NRS in Cleveland and then 11 days later with one in Newport. The "Bad Conduct Discharge" is issued by a Special Court Martial and creates a federal criminal record that nothing will erase. He absolutely would not be in the Army after such a discharge. So if the records you have truly represent the facts, then it is questionable if Duane even served in the Navy in the first place. But if he did and received a Bad Conduct Discharge, he absolutely would have not subsequently been allowed into the Army. I'll continue this with your second posting with the numbers. Robert Nicholson

Oh. I thought some were decoded. The movie certainly gave that impression. Well, no matter what happened the police never figured out who the Zodial killer was to any degree of certainty. What was really bizarre is the investigating detective Dave Toschi who allegedly wrote fake Zodiac communications. What if we had a rogue FBI SA working on Norjack who played with the evidence? I dont think that happened, but the Zodiac case tells you that you cant assume that cops are straight arrow in their investigations. 377 377, Take a look at the proposed solution for the three part message and let me know if you think that is actually a solution. No solution has ever been proposed to my knowledge for the large one part message or for the two very short one word messages. Robert Nicholson

Regardless of what you may think, the Zodiac codes have NOT been broken. In fact, the claimed solution collapses under its own faulty logic. Robert Nicholson