wolfriverjoe

As usual you love putting words in other peoples mouths and refuse to provide any sourcing but this is normal And i can imaging other sources if they can stand on their own fine, so be it But you support this stuff becasue you push the AWG lie If you had a good reason it would be a no brainer Instead what is pushed is being brainless Here ya go Marc: http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_energy/smart-energy-solutions/decrease-coal/economic-analysis-us-coal-plants.html#.VGJEUfldU0I He did cite the source. No direct link to it, but the source was clearly stated. And if you actually read what is written, it says that the big replacement for coal will be natural gas. And it makes the comparisons both with and without the tax credits. The tax credits move wind up the list, but wind is still there without them. With the huge amounts now being produced by fracking, NG costs are back down where they were a few years back. Kind of interesting. A group called CalPine (or something like that) built a bunch of NG fired plants all over the country. When NG prices spiked, they went under and the finished (or nearly finished) plants went for fire sale prices. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

As soon as it is viable outside the mother, yes. Until then, no. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

^This. Big time. I've lost a couple of friends to "terminal illness." Some went fairly easily & 'smoothly.' Some... didn't. Brain cancer has the ability to completely change a person. In some ways that are truly horrific. For the woman in the OP to have chosen not to risk going through those changes (and forcing her family to have to deal with them too) isn't unreasonable. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, that was my point: There are currently several thousand active cases in Liberia. To get "thousands" here (in a random sample), we'd need a huge percentage of the population. And you may well be right that potentially infected people would "self select", but again, most are too poor to be able to afford the cost of the trip. It hasn't happened yet in this outbreak, and I don't see it as a real significant threat. I don't know if we will ever see a "cure" for Ebola. Developing an actual cure for a viral disease isn't that close. That is, a medicine that effectively heals someone who is already infected. But we are getting close to a vaccine. There are several that are very close to human trials. Pretty much any virus can have a vaccine developed to stop it. It's just a question of willingness (and money). This outbreak has pretty much guaranteed that a vaccine will be developed. So the "next time" (and there will be one, count on it), it will become much more of a question of who can afford the vaccine and who can't. Both before and after the outbreak occurs. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

And the biggest take from that (IMO) is that the only screwups that affected (and infected) anyone else were the failure to follow established protocols by the hospital when Duncan was finally admitted and isolated. The fairly big screwup of sending Duncan home the first time has shown zero repercussions. Nobody got infected from his travel to & from the hospital, no one was infected while he was at the hospital the first time and no one was infected during the time he was symptomatic & infectious. Not his family, not the ambulance guys, not anyone. And even though Phang & Vinson did get infected by Duncan, the self monitoring & prompt treatment when symptoms appeared kept anyone else from catching it. Even though everyone went "Chicken Little" over Vinson's travel. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Jake has made quite a few postings indicating a belief that what we saw was as bad as it can be, including the one just before your's. In an effort to counteract a strawman argument of PANIC PANIC, he's doing precisely the same on the other end of the spectrum. I'm not seeing Jakee doing that. I'm certainly not. What we saw was what we are likely to see. A few people coming back who have been infected, but are not yet symptomatic (and therefore aren't contagious yet). The idea of "thousands" of cases is pretty unrealistic. At current infection levels, that would require about 1/3 the population of Liberia to come over here to bring that many cases (assuming a random sample). Most Liberians are too poor to be able to afford it. The rich ones are educated enough to know how to (mostly) avoid getting infected. The CDC has recommendations based on the level of risk the person has of being infected. Duncan made it pretty clear that self assessment of that risk isn't going to be perfect, and direct monitoring of people coming from West Africa is the current standard for just about everyone coming in from the affected areas. But quarantining people who show no real symptoms is stupid. But then, so many people are pretty much idiots. Like the students at the school where Kaci Hickox's boyfriend used to attend. You'd think that nursing students would understand how diseases are transmitted and the level of risk both of them presented (very low). You'd think that a school that teaches nurses would make an effort to keep their students from threatening and intimidating someone who isn't a health risk. http://www.pressherald.com/2014/11/07/kaci-hickox-boyfriend-leaving-maine-after-ebola-quarantine/ But they didn't. They wanted to balance "overall concerns of the community." Keep in mind the story of Chicken Little. He was so concerned about the sky falling and telling the king about it that he completely ignored the very real threat that the individual who claimed to be the king wasn't. And paid the price. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Sure. It's a hemorrhagic fever. Pretty ugly way to die. There's no vaccine for it. No way (other than not exposing yourself to body fluids of an infected and symptomatic person) to prevent it. It's got a high fatality rate. Over in Africa it's well over 50% fatal. Here in the US, with first world healthcare and a few experimental treatments, the death rate is lower. But it's still very dangerous. It's rare. So it's an "unknown" to most people. Tetanus, malaria, and all the other diseases that are far more serious threats have been around a while. Plus they don't have anywhere near as high of a fatality rate, so they aren't as scary for both reasons. People have seen "Outbreak", where the star disease is similar to Ebola. They've read the "Hot Zone", which was the story of the Reston variant. They know how the flu and/or rhino virus (common cold) is transmitted and assume that Ebola is similar. There are a bazillion websites that are posting scary stories and nobody seems to understand the concept of "critical thinking" or factchecking. Throw in the political crap (a month or so before elections) and you have the perfect conditions for "Chicken Little" syndrome. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I'm gonna kick some ass...er...next year, maybe the year after. More grandstanding...blah blah blah. This type of thing will be his legacy. You seem to be ignoring the part where he invites congress to take some real action on the matter. Which they pretty much refuse to do. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I don't see any realistic way that we could reach "thousands" of cases here in the US. At all. It doesn't spread that easily. Standard BBP protocols work. All of the ideas of quarantining people who weren't contagious is stupid. That's not my way, that's just basic science. It's what doctors & healthcare experts have been saying all along. It was the politicians and the public (aided quite handily by the media, as Jerry pointed out) who freaked out and started calling for some stupid overreactive measures. I have to wonder how Christie will answer any questions about this if he runs for Pres. Obama called for calm and reason. Christie threw a nurse who had been helping the sick overseas into a pretty spartan jail, even though she had no symptoms and tested negative. To repeat, the disease has been stopped in Nigeria. Which is truly a 3rd world country. The government is corrupt, the infrastructure is poor, the healthcare system is pretty primitive. And they didn't get "thousands" of cases. The only reason that the epidemic has gone on as long as it has in Liberia and Sierra Leone is because their infrastructure is totally trashed, the government is useless and the people don't have a basic understanding of how viruses work & spread. That is changing, however. Apparently most places where people may gather now have "Ebola Buckets", buckets containing a bleach solution for disinfecting things (heard that on NPR). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

A thousand people coming over here from West Africa with Ebola? That would be a huge percentage of current cases. I can't see that happening. Not in the real world. Keep in mind that this outbreak has been going on since March. One doctor was brought back infected (and treated). One journalist was brought back infected (and treated). Two people brought it back with them (Duncan & Spencer). One died. That's FOUR cases that have arrived here. Total. I don't see how you reach "thousands" from that. The fact that there were zero cases transmitted through casual contact wasn't luck. It was the fact that Ebola doesn't transmit that easily. And Kaci Hickox wasn't "arrogant" when she refused to "take one for the team." She was realistic about the actual risks and refused to get railroaded into unnecessary quarantine because the politicians were panicking and posturing. And a judge agreed with her. I find it really hilarious that the CDC told Vinson she could travel on the airplane, yet everyone panicked when she came down with it. So CDC backpedaled, not for any actual scientific reasons, but due to pressure from the panicking public, and ordered those who had come into contact with contagious people off of public transportation. And keep in mind, that using the standard protocols, both Nigeria and Senegal stopped it. Both have now been considered "Ebola Free" for two or three weeks. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Don't forget the folks who actually do keep the lights on (power company), and those who make sure the water both comes into the house (clean) and leaves (sewage). There's lots of essential services that need to be taken care of every day. There are a lot of others that are "on call" on holidays. Tow truck drivers, plumbers, HVAC guys and a lot more. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I got the sarcasm. I'm trying to have an actual discussion here. So do you disagree with what I said, or are you just throwing out one liners because you have no valid argument? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Care to expand on that? I'm not implying that we ignore it, or not take proper care. Nor am I implying that it isn't a dangerous disease. It is. Mistakes were made, particularly with Duncan. Sending him home when he was symptomatic and told the ER nurse he had recently been in West Africa was a big one. And, FWIW, the nurse properly charted that bit of info. Even though the nurse got the blame for the oversight, it wasn't his or her fault. And proper BBP protocols weren't followed by Phang & Vinson. And (general reply to other posts) the US needs to help end this over in West Africa. Kind of "funny" how little everyone cared... Until it showed up over here. This outbreak has been going on since March. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Eh, coin toss for who drives the short bus to hell? Put me on the list. The story said that his mom was an elementary school teacher, and his dad was a "costumed character at Disney World." He shot Mickey!! (or Pluto or Goofy or Donald or...) "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

. Next time we will do it your way. If you mean standard BBP protocols, isolating people who are contagious (symptomatic), allowing those who had been exposed but are not yet symptomatic (not contagious) to lead normal lives as "my way", good. If you mean no stupid quarantines of people just because they were in the same general area of an infected person, no suspending teachers because they were in the same general metropolitan area as someone who was sick (along with a couple million others), if you mean teaching people basic geography (over 3200 miles between Kenya and Liberia), if you mean not being stupid, panicky sheep; then even better. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Yeah... States get to use their own definition of marriage. So if a state wanted to define it as between a man and woman of the same race. Or of the same religion. Would this sort of "state decision" be upheld by the 6th? There was a rather scathing dissent. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

is everyone past 21 days now, as well? Seems like everyone either died, recovered, or never had it. The whole sage in Maine seemed to disappear from the news as well. Never heard how her refusal played out, or if she really was a CDC stooge. Who besides Duncan died? He's the only one I know of. And Kaci Hickox is rapidly falling back into obscurity. The judge refused to grant the governor's request to force her into quarantine. She shows no symptoms and tested negative for the virus (in NJ). I kind of wish the judge would have decided that the governor was recklessly spreading fear & panic and ordered him into quarantine. Preferably with a ball gag in place. There have been a bunch of stupid overreactions. Nerdgirl is collecting them on FB. A teacher was suspended (with pay) after going to a conference in Dallas (really). The parents thought it was dangerous to have her in contact with their kids because she was within 10 miles or so of the hospital where Duncan died. Another resigned after returning from a mission trip to Kenya. It's in Africa after all. And everything in Africa is close to everything else. A principal in Louisiana took a bunch of flak after going to a family funeral in Zambia (see above). And Spencer seems to be recovering nicely. If he does recover, it puts the death toll in the US from Ebola at... One. With 5 recoveries and one death, that puts the death rate at 16.667%. Not 70%, less than 20%. Yawn. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I agree that it's been a long time (so my memory could be wrong also). I remember the shot of Mission Control, with all the controllers over their screens, trying to make sense of the data, trying to figure out what was going on, until one of them spotted a TV that was showing the long range camera view (the big cloud). The look on his face as he realized that the entire vehicle was gone is something I will never forget. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Damn skippy. A big ass 300 lb dude that won't listen and seems hell bent on bullying the cop and causing bodily harm? Fuck it, neutralize the threat by any means available. As opposed to a huge dude whose behavior makes the officers think he's on PCP? RK had been in prison prior to the "big event" that catapulted him into both the spotlight and the hospital. The cops noted his "buffed out" build and made that assumption too (one for two isn't all that bad). And he was arrested multiple times after that. I don't think "choir boy" applies to either of them. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, based on recent history, it will be more important to the Republicans to show that "they are in charge" and that "they will hold the line" on their ridiculous policies. I expect to see an attempt to repeal Obamacare on the President's desk fairly soon. Which will be vetoed. Which will waste a ton of time and money. For nothing. Leadership? Compromise? Actually accomplishing anything? Doubtful. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

As I mentioned upthread, the signatures are on the outside of the 2nd envelope. They have to open both envelopes to see the ballot(s). Jerry Baumchen Thanks for the clarification. I just "searched & skimmed." It sounds like a sensible and well thought out idea. So there's absolutely zero chance it will be implemented elsewhere. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I don't know. I would hope that this is the 'first line' and that questionable signatures are sent to someone with some skill and experience to take a closer look. And the signatures are on the outside of the envelope. The sigs are checked when the ballots come in, the votes are counted later. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Also - "In lieu of flowers or rotten fish, I know my brother would prefer that folks make a donation to their favorite public radio station in his memory." Posthumous NPR pledge drive. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I hope that there is some barcode and registry system, and not just signatures. Well, a quick google search found that they claim to check each signature. And This Article (from last week), claims that the top reason for ballot rejection is a bad signature. Considering that each individual election office (Seems to be on a county basis) verifies signatures and counts the ballots, it's not that big of a task. It's not one person doing the whole job. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

What?! No... Command presence...then Verbal commands....then Spray...then Baton...then Taser.....then If none of that works and your presented with potential lethal threat, the use of deadly force is authroized. You don't have to start at command presence, you meet force with force. If a guy opens a door and starts swinging you don't have to stand tall, then tell him to stop, then spray him....you can deploy the baton and stun him in the leg or gut right off. That is/was the EBRP protocol. What do you mean "No"? Current force continuum would have ended up with King shot. They had already attempted Tasering. It failed. He kept taunting and approaching them (taunting isn't a crime per se, but it was a solid indicator that he wasn't going to comply). The baton strikes weren't working. What should they have done next? An interesting account of the King case & trial: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/lapd/lapdaccount.html "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo