wolfriverjoe

radio report noted that the head wound - he still had the bullet or fragment in his skull Skull? Or scalp? My faith in media reports (especially early ones) is... Not great. Too much experience with guns and planes and parachutes. And it isn't uncommon to leave pieces behind. More trouble and risk to get them out than to leave them in. In both "very serious" and "not so serious" wounds. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

We can argue this all day. When I hear "very serious gunshot wound", I only consider the physical damage. I won't dispute the mental aspect of it. But the report I read didn't seem to be addressing that part of it. The spokes-person seemed to be saying that they suffered "very serious" wounds. And while "time in hospital" isn't the only criteria, it's one of the more important ones. And a post after yours seemed to indicate it was a 40 cal pistol round from over 100 yards. While shooters can and do hit that far with pistols, in that situation, it would be a lot more likely that the shooter was just aiming for the crowd of cops and "hoping". "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, being "Shot in the face" tends to be a bit messy. Just ask Vince & Jules. And I'm unaware of a "through and through from the shoulder to the back" being minor enough to get out of the hospital in a day or two. Or even a week or two. The shoulder is a rather large collection of bones. Any bullet is going to tend to break them. And deflect off them and bounce around inside and cause a big mess. However, it's entirely possible to get a hit "near the eye" (how I've heard media reports) that is either a graze or bits & pieces of a near miss that fragmented. It's also very possible to get hit in the "meaty part" of the shoulder and not hit bone. Neither of those would require long term hospital care. But nor would they be "serious." We both know better than to believe media reports. And I don't recall placing blame on anyone. Someone got pissed off enough at the cops and took a few shots at them. I'd lay that blame at the feet of the shooter. Period. We could argue all day about the behavior of the police leading up to this, but that's a moot point. The shooter shot at the cops, he's to blame. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Anytime anyone is shot, they should be treated as serious wounds. On that I fully agree. But gunshot wounds can be very minor. Little more than a scratch in some cases. I don't consider any wound "very serious" if the injured person is released from the hospital in less than 24 hours. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I've read the thread, and been pondering a response. I'm a hell of a 'featherbutt' too. 5'10" and 155# stepping out of the shower. On my early freefalls (S/L progression) my instructor would bitch me out for pulling low. I wasn't pulling low (and started using a Pro-Track to prove it), I was just falling slow. He was timing my freefall and couldn't believe that I was in freefall that long without going low. His reaction the first time I wore the Pro-Track was hilarious. I also had a very hard time keeping down with any groups. I was trying so hard to keep my fall rate up, that I really couldn't do anything else. Any attempts to fly to a slot or anything like that would result in my popping up. So I tried weights. I ended up using 10 lbs. I used dive weights, and put 5# in each front pocket of my pants. They would be below the legstraps and that would keep them in place. Having it down by my hips helped with balance too. I wasn't too "top heavy" like with the "vest style" ones. I never really noticed the weight under canopy (a 190 Triathlon) or on landing or walking back to the hangar or any of that. It just helped me stay down with the people I was jumping with. And not having to worry about having to try really hard to stay with the group helped a lot too (very much a "positive feedback loop"). As time went on, my flying skills improved. I learned more about "getting small" without having to overarch. Tucking in my arms, but still being able to fly, working more with my legs, all sorts of stuff I learned over time, and with a variety of different people giving advice (some was great, some... not so much). And I don't need the weights anymore. They were a great learning tool. They allowed me to fly with others when I couldn't without them. Which in turn, allowed me to learn to fly better. And when I was flying better, I learned to fall faster, while still being able to fly my body. This is something you should discuss with your instructors. I would suggest adding a few pounds at a time (I went with 5 at first, added a 2.5, then added another). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, I heard reports today that the St Louis county cops and MO Staties are taking over. Ok, now I read further down and see that is in the link too. And despite "very serious" wounds, both cops were released from the hospital today. "Very Serious". Yeah, right. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Very good points. And I agree, Brian Burke's input would be very nice. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, There goes any objectivity, along with quoting Human Rights Watch. It should be relatively simple one would think. But then again, it is the federal government. What do you mean? Are you saying agencies that don't report their numbers have never killed anyone? I'm sure there are agencies (probably most of them) that report "zero" as their number. But that doesn't make the rate zero. And you can use that rate and apply it to agencies that don't report. And where did they quote "Human Rights Watch"? It was HRDAG. Different group. You are rather quick to casually dismiss any reports that are critical of LEO. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I recently watched a series from the BBC called "The White Queen" (it's available on Amazon). Amazing amount of sex, and boobies. Apparently the Brits have no problem with this. (Incidentally, the series was excellent). Of course. Europeans overall have far fewer issues with nudity than Americans. I gotta wonder if it goes back to those "Puritans" who decided to leave Europe. They were pretty uptight too. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Wait a minute. He's a Muslim, isn't he? Why would he listen to a pastor if he's a Muslim? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Oh yeah, the idea that the politicians are actually going to do what the voters want, especially when that desire goes against what their masters (the people who bought and paid for the politicians) is pretty ridiculous. We've seen that here in Wisconsin a couple times. When Walker's masters issue their commands, he ignores the wishes of the people and does whatever the hell they want. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

How about "It depends on the size and operation of the DZ"? In post #4, the way SDC operates is described pretty well (or at least as I understand the operation). In that case, there are people dedicated to searching for and retrieving "lost" jumpers. They know when someone is missing and they go look for them. I would assume that if the missing jumper is not quickly located, then a plane would be diverted (probably on descent) to help in the search. In that case, continuing operations would not be a problem. IIRC, there was an incident where someone landed out and got hurt (ambulance ride to the hospital "hurt") at Summerfest a couple years ago. The ground crew was on it and handled it very well. Ops didn't stop. Nor did they stop when someone got killed in 2013. The accident site was well off the DZ and only a few people even knew it had happened. For a small DZ, without that sort of support crew? Stop. I've grabbed a radio and jumped in my car to chase missing jumpers. The radio kept me in contact with the other searchers and the pilot, who was searching from the air. The jumper was spotted from the air (canopy was easy to see), searchers on the ground were directed in and uninjured jumper was picked up. Different situations, different levels of support crew, different response. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Clicky works for me. And it's a rather disturbing article. Our government collects a bazillion statistics on a bazillion things. But not how many people are killed by LE. Why not? Too inconvenient? Too much work? Because it would make them look bad? Because it would lead to restrictions on that same LE? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Oh, I agree fully that it's stupid, anal, juvenile, controlling, and a lot of other things that I can't think of at the moment. They say that these are "family forums" and that they don't want to risk offending anyone, especially the advertisers. We, as Americans, tend to be really stupid about that sort of stuff. I was (and still am) amazed what gets edited out on the radio, and what doesn't. After the SuperBowl/Janet Jackson episode, the FCC either cracked down or simply threatened to. So songs got butchered. Harvey Danger's "Flagpole Sitta" has a "God damn you" in the lyrics. (cut off my legs now I'm an amputee, God damn you") That gets chopped all the time. Didn't used to. But the Who's "Who Are You" gets to keep "Who the fuck are you?" in many markets. South Park was right. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

An aside, for curiosity's sake: Is the word "ass" in 2015 America still considered so offensive that it merits "placeholder letters"? Would "tushie" offend you as much? Some forums have "profanity filters." If you try to type anything like 'ass' or 'shit' or whatever, the post gets rejected. So 'a$$', 'sh!t' & 'fvck' are used instead. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

You haven't seen those folks before because they aren't on here anymore. The thread is almost 11 years old. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

It sounds like you did pretty good. Giving your instructors an "exciting" jump is usually not a good thing. The mistakes sound both typical and minor. That is probably the best decision you could have made. If you aren't sure you can land well, PLF it. (We call it a Parachute Landing Fall here in the US, same thing). Having a good PLF in your 'toolbox' will save you in the future. Glad you had a good jump. You are soooo screwed now... Just like the rest of us. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Umm... "Turn WV into the wild west by removing the need for concealed carry permits"? There are several states that have done that (one has been that way for a very, very long time). Some of them are in what used to be the "wild west." None of them have seen a huge increase in violence. Try to tone down the hyperbole. Use facts instead of inflammatory, inaccurate catchphrases. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Ok, I went back and re-read it. Now I see that he wasn't making the argument himself, just pointing out that the anti-gay crowd does. It's still a "cop-out" argument. Basically, the antis are saying "Because I was born this way, everyone must have been." And they refuse to listen to anyone else. Including solid science. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Absolutely. They're going to march & chant. Whether or not this guy attacked the cop, they are going to go on as if he was shot & killed for no reason at all. They will paint him as a "good boy", who "wouldn't hurt a fly" and all that crap. You know, that "Right To Assemble" & "Freedom of Speech" stuff. And the cops are going to watch them do it. And if they do it peaceably, the cops will just sit there and watch. Unlike Ferguson. Fortunately, the local news is reporting that he has a criminal record for armed robbery. He was not a choir boy. Again, we shall see what happens. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

That's odd. I wasn't "Born hetero" by any means. When I was young, I thought girls were "icky." Somewhere at the start of my teens, that changed. A lot. They weren't "icky" anymore, they were soft and smelled good, and made me feel "funny" inside. And I like that a lot. I never made a conscious choice that I liked girls, it just was. And if you look at the anecdotes about kids who are raised in a strong religious environment that pounds "being gay is a sin" into them, kids that pray to that god to "not be gay", kids who commit suicide because god doesn't make them straight, then you might realize that it's not a choice. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

This is the absolute key, getting facts out QUICK. They absolutely failed at that in Ferguson. People may not like them, but facts are facts. I've seen some earlier interviews with Madison's Police Chief, he's well spoken and pretty candid. This will be a study of the exact opposite of what happened media wise from the PD in Ferguson. I can't say that I'm confident that the results will be any different. (Replying to both of you) The way the cops have addressed the media here is pretty much textbook. Make statement, express regret, promise a full and fair investigation - in this case, full cooperation with the outside investigators. And the Madison cops don't have anywhere near the horrible reputation that Ferguson did/does. They aren't anywhere near as bad as even Milwaukee (which has had some pretty ugly incidents). And the WI DOJ has a reasonably good rep too. As I said above, if the facts of the case are being accurately told, this case will probably come back as "justified." And there will probably be a bunch of folks protesting that decision. And the Madison cops will let them protest peacefully (no armored cars or teargas shot at non-violent crowds). Hopefully (but I doubt it) the crowd will change their chant from "Hands Up Don't Shoot" to "Don't Attack An Armed Cop." "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Hmmm, again this was 100% preventable, fighting with an armed man is a VERY bad idea. Speaking of Germany, if you decide to fight the Polizei I would assure you there is not a good outcome. We'll see how the investigation plays out. For anyone that wants to discuss the actual facts (or at least reported facts) of the incident, rather than just snipe at each other: This is somewhat local to me. Madison is a couple hours away. It's all over the local news. And the cops are doing a pretty good job of getting the info out. They aren't stalling or stonewalling. They are (of course) not telling everything they know, but it's a long, long way from what happened in Ferguson. Madison has been the "Liberal Hotbed" of Wisconsin for a long, long time. WI is a pretty conservative state overall, and Madison is one of the few areas that is predominantly liberal. The cops there are, overall, pretty good. But they've 'opened their mouth and shot themselves in the foot' a few times over the years. As Skycop quoted above, the cops responded to a call, followed the "He went thataway" from the complainants, forced their way into an apartment, and dude attacked the cop. Cop was in full uniform, accompanied by a bunch of other uniforms, they had pounded on the door and announced "Police! Open the door!" And there were cop cars all over the street with their lights on (No chance whatsoever that he thought that it was a home invasion). The protesters are doing the 'Hands up, don't shoot' chant, but that really doesn't appear to be the case here. His mom has been on the news, tearfully asking why her son has become another statistic, claiming that he wouldn't have attacked the cop, her son wouldn't do something like that. But he has a conviction for armed robbery (haven't seen any details on that). And in a refreshing note, Wisconsin (particularly Milwaukee) has had a number of questionable cases of 'suspect deaths', some while in custody. So the policy has been put in place that in these sorts of cases, the investigation is not done by the agency that is being investigated. It must be done by an external agency. In this case, it's going to be done by the Wisconsin Dept of Justice. So I have a reasonably solid expectation that the investigation will be fairly and competently done. And if the facts that are coming out are correct, then it sounds like a clean shoot. Now back to your regular "I know you are but what am I" bickering. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

They push the battery against the contacts. Without them, the battery won't make consistent contact. Although you can get by on one if need be (guess how I know that ). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I'd rather have a new one. I didn't like posting in Bry's thread after he died. It just didn't feel right to me. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo