georger

Jo I dont see these wear areas or impressions, as related to paper money. For one thing the area is not consistent with the dimensions of a single bill roughly 3.5x6.5 inches, there is no evidence of pigment from green ink, and there are no cotton fibres. Fragments of paper money are hairy and the paper in paper money does not separate easily - it is almost a woven fabric. In addition the wear areas show definite channels of wear with valleys in between each area - this is not consistent with the cover being in contact with a soft pliable surface but with a hard smooth even surface. I just dont see any evidence of money in these impressions ... [edit] Here are a few more scans which show surface texture on the cover. As you can see most of the foreign material is below or within the surface texture of the cover as opposed to something above it.

I will answer both here. I dont see any similarity in the hand writings - see attached. As for the book, I dont see anything stuck to the surface of the book. What I do see is the book was in contact with a hard smooth surface, got wet, and sometime later the book was lifted and this raised the surface texture of the book in areas which were in contact with the surface the book was sitting on. A surface photo of the area in question is attached - As for these cockpit notes, all are signed by somebody ... signature photo attached.

Oxygen deprivation affects every cell in the body - throws the whole body chemistry off. Liver cells, kidney cells, pancreas, muscle cells have no Oxy to burn, brain chemistry goes haywire, vascular system starts to contract, heart and lung rate drops .... and afterwards you piss amonia!

*** Only about 100 times even when they are testifying under oath. How many defendants really had the gun and/or the dope in plain sight as the cops nearly always testify regarding warrantless searches? I can see how they rationalize it. They catch a bad guy and they are not going to have the firearm or drug evidence suppressed on some damned technicality about needing a search warrant. If I were a cop I might adopt that attitude myself. So Bruce. What lie did a cop tell you and why did it affect your outlook so profoundly and permanently? I love conspiracy theories. They fascinate me. Area 51, alien autopsies and kidnappings, Aurora, Chemtrails, Roswell, crop circles... bring em on. I like them as entertainment and for the insight they give on human behavior when confronted by mysteries. I don't believe they are accurate accounts of fact. Maybe my skepticism blinds me to real conspiracies. I think there was only one JFK assassin and that the Roswell crash was really a Project Mogul balloon. Call me ignorant or gullible, but I get a pretty good shave using Occam's Razor. I see no reason to use anything else. 377 There is something called the Skeptics Society. (based in Arizona?) They used to investigate ufo sightings etc.

I will simply say I have posted severalof Jo's PM's here myself ... and she's stillt alking to me. Jer' ... we both know where thisis going. No sense in getting hands dirty. Pour a nice one, sip, and relax! (Shelly?

That is GREAT POST and summary! Now you know WHY Jerry searches... If Bohan landed behind 305 at PDX and filed a report with Hastings ... there is data there.

I did not say Duane was an alcoholic! I never said they met or knew each other - only that Duane felt quilt over McCoy - because of the copycat act and his subsequent death. I don't know what you are looking for with that question - I was a hard worker and a good money manager. Duane was a hard worker but he could play as hard as he worked...but NEVER mixed the two. Absolutely not. We owned a home with a small manageable mortgage - He had life insurance and I was working as a life insurance agent until one month before he died. Not rich but not holding a bag. Think about the change he made in his life - WHY did he make that change? He jumped out of plane and survived, but the copycat gets caught and killed in a shoot-out. Whatever Duane was he was not without a conscience. I am going to tell you a little story told to me by one the individuals in his criminal life. When he would rob a family staying at a resort - he took all the jewelry and most of the cash, but he alway left some cash when children where involved. A crook with a heart for kids! Was this just the other party trying to make things sound better or was it true? I don't know. I think that statement is true. My opinion is that Duane's act was an act of desparation. The only thing he did better than McCoy was not get caught - (dumb luck and he knew it). In theory - After McCoy's death he felt to blame for the death of another person - perhaps in his mind he was responsible. Maybe he felt threatened - over the death of McCoy - he could even have thought that the FBI just killed McCoy rather than capture him...why Duane went to such extents to re-invent himself so he didn't end up on a slab in a morgue. Nothing about Duane's life fits together - From the time I knew him until his death and the life he led prior to 1978 along with his childhood. This was a man of multiple personalities during the various stages of his life - he was chameleon like - blending in with the background except when he was singing.,,then he stood out. well ... you have just raised the stakes to the clouds. Jo, you now assert Duane Weber was on a par with or even excelled Richard McCoy. That McCoy used Duane's hijacking of 305 as his example to follow! And Duane felt sorry when 'his student' Richard McCoy the Olympian was shot and killed, by not following Duane's superior example. That Duane was an Olympian! By comparison, your trip to Washington is now trivial and of no consequence. Richard McCoy's life is fully documented. Richard McCoy was an athelete in every sense of the word. That is documented. It's one thing to tell us Duane was in good health while also having PKD, which Duane's friends have documented. It is another to now tell us Duane had Olympic level atheletic skills, which McCoy tried to emulate. There is nothing in the Cooper hijacking which demonstrates superior atheletic skills were used or required. McCoy on the other hand, had a whole lifetime of atheletic performance at a very high level. What in the Cooper hijacking would McCoy see as something to emulate, since McCoy himself definately had atheletic skills far beyond anything requiured to repeat Duane/Cooper's feat? Why do you even compare the two men? Why would Duane feel sorry for McCoy? When did Duane say he was sorry about McCoy and what did he say? There is no record of McCoy having ever expressed anything about Dan Cooper and his hijacking, at least no public record.

I did not say Duane was an alcoholic! I never said they met or knew each other - only that Duane felt quilt over McCoy - because of the copycat act and his subsequent death. Quote You moved to Virgina Beach how many (8?) years AFTER McCoy had been killed there? Did Duane talk about and feel guilty about McCoy in the years before you & Duane moved to Vir Beach? Did Duane feel guilty about Percy Hamilton!? Did Duane feel guilty about Joan-of-Arc? Did Duane feel guilty about Richard Nixon? Did Duane feel guilty about Ayatollah Khomeini during the Carter Administration?

I do think you went to WA with Duane. It is not an outlandish claim and it certainly didnt prove he was Cooper. It is the purpose of the trip (Duane reliving the DBC memories) that gets purely speculative. Have you ever considered that Duane was just fascinated with DBC, researched a lot about him and was never actually associated with any aspect of NORJACK? What evidence is inconsistent with this theory? I do not consider his death bed statement to be proof that he was actually Dan Cooper. It could have been a lie, a wish, a drug induced hallucination, etc. 377 Or, read this carefully! He could have been Duane Weber and not Dan Cooper in which case it doesnt matter if he was Cooper, in any sense.

This was a manaqer's meeting for Family Life Insurance, a Subsidiary of Merrill Lynch whose home office was in Seattle in 1979. The company is no longer a subsidiary and I do not know if it still exists. I have the pictures we took in SLC on our way to WA and then the pictures made at the hotel before the banquet. We stayed at a place called the Men's Club (I believe was the name of it). At the Eye of the Needle he bought me a Black Hills gold ring. ..at a small Kiosk that was in the dining room at that time. There was no reason to keep the travel reiimbusement or advancement more than 7 yrs afterwards. You now portray Duane as the consumate businessman. RICH! Why does a rich talented guy like Duane ever hijack a measily aeroplane? Jo you are mixing your metaphors again. The orphaned rich tykoon hopless lost with many friends and close associates abandoned with a grudge but healthy & optimistic - Duane. How many conflicted mututally exclusive lives can one person have? OK. Did Duane ever meet and work with, Albert Schweitzer, on-or-before some act of burglary or embezzelment? Did he then donate his 'take' to the Children's Orphan Fund? Was Duane Robin Hood before or after hewas Cooper?

I don't think Jo grossly fabricates stuff. I just think she has a strong unconscious bias in evaluating ambiguous or even irrelevant evidence. I do think Duane told her he was Dan Cooper although I have no proof. Duane lied about all sorts of stuff in his criminal career so why assume he was telling the truth about being Dan Cooper? Quote We will never know. But, what Duane's friends say or said must be considered along with everything else. We dont know enough about Jo & Duanes' relation to know who came up with what. But Duane was not Cooper in any event so its only a question of who hatched this egg we currently discuss? It isnt even as tangible (in my mind) as Mileva Maric claiming she invented relativity! Who was Mileva Maric'? She was Einstein's wife and fellow student at the Polytechnik, a mathematician in her own right, ahead of Albert in school and older than Albert, the mother of his children and the "editor" of his lecture notes and his published works while they were together. That is more tangible than anything discussed here - We are getting a bit too "Jerry Springer" here, you are right Sluggo. I wish we could get Snow back and hear more from Safe. I'd much rather read about likely flight paths and jump points than who thinks who is lieing. Quote The Bohan Continental flight behind and above 305 is known. I spent a month trying to pry info lose from Continental to no avail - maybe someone else can do better or get lucky. But, Continental still has the records (they say). Its just that nobody wants to search and dig them out, they say. Bohan's Continental flight was documented by no less than Ken Hastings who was the Manager at PDX at the time and knew Bohan personally (that much I know for a fact).

Duane even mentioned McCoy to me - pointing out shortly after we moved to Virgina Beach where McCoy was shot. It was during those days he mentioned feeling responsible for the death of another person because of something he did. This is way before I had any knowledge regarding Duane's background. He never explained that statement. Since it was said to me I can believe he shared his feelings with his insuance buddy - they traveled together and worked together off and on. This time period would have been right. Duane's interest in McCoy was the burden of quilt. Duane felt responsible for McCoy's death because he set the example. Perhaps this might explain Duane changing his life so drastically. Alcohol and Guilt make poor roommates! So Duane was alcoholic at this time? I merely want to point out that the life histories of McCoy and Weber are as different as night vrs. day. They have nothing in common so far as I know it. McCoy wouldnt have known Duane Weber even existed, even if he had ever met him. Duane was not the kind of person that would interest McCoy. I seriously doubt McCoy spent much time thinking about the Cooper hijacking either. McCoy was an A-type personality, self sufficient, and self motivated. Duane is a submissive type and not skilled at anything, a dreamer at best, and psycholgically incapable of doing what McCoy did, and their backgrounds and makeup are totally different. If Duane spent one second thinking about McCoy it could only have been at the level of "envy" ... a Walter Mitty projection. And I am not even convinced that happened. Jo, I have to say I see YOU projecting above. It's almost like you are wishing Duane to have had certain qualities that Duane did not have. The question would be: why? Were you the A-type personality and were you Duane's caretaker? Did Duane leave you holding a bag of nothing? That would explain - everything. It's almost as if you are remaking Duane into something he could not possibly have been, on his own. Because if Duane spent one second fixating on McCoy then that precludes Duane having been Cooper. The two personality types are incompatible. People who hijack airplanes don't do it "by accident"! There is a very strong element in McCoy's history of McCoy proving himself, over and over. He finally took on the FBI in a standoff and was shot and killed. There is nothing about Duane to suggest that kind of personality or capability. Duane was a passive person who committed passive crimes of opportunity with little direct personal risk. I can see a Duane maybe admiring a McCoy in a passive sense, but feeling responsible for McCoy or thinking himself on the same level as McCoy, or having set some example for McCoy to follow? Or that Duane was "better" than McCoy at McCoy's own game? That is pure delusion on Jo's part. The parts of that kind of story don't even fit together.

This man did not tell Jerry that Duane had too many health problems to be Cooper....the pictures of that time say he was in good physcial condition and according to the wife - he was in great physical shape. He was doing a LOT of swimming - and you could see this in the pictures. Duane even mentioned McCoy to me - pointing out shortly after we moved to Virgina Beach where McCoy was shot. It was during those days he mentioned feeling responsible for the death of another person because of something he did. This is way before I had any knowledge regarding Duane's background. He never explained that statement. Since it was said to me I can believe he shared his feelings with his insuance buddy - they traveled together and worked together off and on. This time period would have been right. Duane's interest in McCoy was the burden of quilt. Duane felt responsible for McCoy's death because he set the example. Perhaps this might explain Duane changing his life so drastically. Alcohol and Guilt make poor roommates! I have told the McCoy story in Unsolved Mysteries and maybe in 101. I was unaware that Duane had ever said anything about this to anyone else. I have not been able to reach his friend because he is traveling right now. We will talk when he returns home. PS:, How would you guys feel if someone was offering perfect strangers your phone number on the internet? Obviously I must have provide the number to Himmelsbach or Jerry, but would have asked the friend for his permission to do so. His number was not maant to be public infomation and I am sure he will not appreciate this. Who is Brian Allen and why would he be calling anyone regarding Weber? Jo. some aspects of the above are total nonsense. b]Duane's interest in McCoy was the burden of quilt. Duane felt responsible for McCoy's death because he set the example. Perhaps this might explain Duane changing his life so drastically. THERE WAS NO LINK BETWEEN DUANE & MC'COY EXCEPT IN DUANE'S MIND - OR YOURS - OR BOTH. But at least you finally admit a fixation, which I said long ago existed and you denied - These comments above go a long way in 'fixing' Duane's psychology. If Duane can link to McCoy simply by moving to Virginia Beach, then can fishing around for the Cooper money in Washington be far behind? That scenario is radically different from Duane 'being' Cooper. In fact, the psychology of the former eliminates the psychology of the latter. A cat cannot be a dog!

In order to believe Duane was doing that, don't you have to admit that at least a part of Jo's story isn't a complete fabrication? Here's my problem, I don't think I've ever seen any proof that the trip actually took place. Sure we have Jo's word, but if we just accept her word on that, then don't we also have to just accept her word on the rest of her story? If the trip happened, it does not follow it happened 'as Jo says it happened'; if the trip happened. Example: I was married in 1969 - my ex and I agree we were married, but have very different stories for what happened! Two other factors enter this dilemma. (1) No husband tells his wife everything! Jo is finally admitting there were areas of Duane's life she knew nothing of (back then). That is one of the reasons she is exploring Duane NOW. (2) Jo is finally admitting there was a Duane-McCoy connection when they moved to Virgina Beach. I contended that all along. I based my theory on the psychological profiles of those involved and the timing of events. Jo now even claims Duane was somehow "responsible" for McCoy being killed!? That is ridiculous and may reveal fixation on Duane's part (just as Jo may be fixated now). Jo and Duane may have shared "fixation"?

We all have to be careful. I am trying to be calm also ... it makes things more enjoyable however and helps preserve the feelings of the good posters. Georger

Hmmm that is a surprise because most good paper money and stamp dealers DO have UV lamps etc, they use in the course of their work - But you did say the cover is rough. The roughness may preclude getting much of an imprint from. ^^^^^ On the money pack I thought you said you gave Duane a magic marker and he put a message on the bundle? That you gave him rubber bands and then he wanted to put a message also\ but all you could find was a magic marker .??? I suppose I can go back and search old posts ....

From everything Jo has said, it appears Duane's active crime years were closed or had ended and he had turned over a new leaf. His increasing years fit with that profile. But he may have still been looking for easy money, or an easy find, and it wouldnt surprise me at all if he discussed some of this with his personal friends? - - - - - On another matter, going back to the flight path. If Bohan and his Continental flight were actually 'behind sand above' 305, wouldn't knowing the flight path of that Continental flight shed light on where 305 had to be? We never did nail down Bohan's flight path and it was a standard Continental route?

So if we accept a conspiracy theory to be true we are more likely to accept explanations that are consistent with a conspiracy and less likely to accept evidence that runs against a conspiracy account. ... I have often wondered if Duane's trip to Washington wasn't anything more than Duane looking for clues as to where Cooper's money might be - on the assumption Duane thought Cooper had died in the jump. Duane threw money into the Columbia (just like Tom Kaye has). He wrote something on the packet with a magic marker (Jo says), just as Tom wrote on his packets... It was Duane looking forward, as much as backward. I think Duane was looking for the Cooper money or fame (which would lead to money), if the trip happened at all?

It's simply a ludicrous idea. Not to mention crazy ad impossible.

The binder is Gold Colored - rough surfaced. So only the raised area has something on it - greenish in color -I placed a Dollar Bill over the plastic bag (not directly on the cover) and if fits perfectly. I am doing as you advised and having someone take a look at it. The binder is similar to the binders we use today for presentations. A machine punches lots of retangular holes and puts a plastic binder comb on it. I also have some old books of my own from the 60's that are constructed this way. These books usually vary from 1 inch thick to 1/4 inch thick - you see lots of this type done for charity functions to raise money for a cause. In comparing the books I have from the late sixties - mine are old and crumbling - in need of new binders, but they have been used and read repeatedly. They have always been kept in a closed shelf away from the elements and light. The 2 books Duane put on my shelf - are in excellent condition for their age - about the same age or older than my books - this means they have been stored in a more protected enviroment for a great portion of their existence such as a safety deposit box or chest or container. Only one has water damage. Probably another wild goose chase, but it is something I have been curious about regarding Duane and his secrets. Can't scan it tonight, but will do so in a couple of days. There are two pieces of paper in the books with printing on them. I did compare them to the hand scribbling that Shaffner did on the plane. Comparing scribbling and printing is difficult - but there were some common traits (probably just the times). I found no samples of Tina's handwriting - in the FOIA. Pure Speculation below: If these items came off the plane they could have also belonged to one of the passengers and left in the aft cabin as they were moved forward. One of these books would have been of interest to Weber because of the title and he may have handled it during the flight. He took it because his prints were on it and you can't wiipe prints off of paper. These could also be something that belonged to a prior wife or his mother. His sister said they did NOT belong to the mother who died in 1958. The ex-wife said they didn't belong to her, but as we all know there were many women in Weber's life. Did Duane have these items BEFORE he started in the antique business in Florida? Im assuming he did if one connects to his time in WA but that's only conjecture Jo unless you have some specific link. Except for being in prison in WA there is no documented period when he spent time living in WA - correct?

I agree, Jo. Based on your discription of Duane, and from what I've read, I see a high degree of correlation between your husband and CB Cooper. And with other guys, too, such as Gossett, Christiansen, McCoy, et. al. I'd like to know more about Duane- what kind of guy he was. Please tell us more. Or send PMs if you think this thread is tired of Weber stories. From what you've shared, Duane sounds quixotic: warm and friendly at times, but deadly serious, even menacing, at others. Open and loving at times, but then profoundly secretive and closed-off. There are hundreds of back pages to read on Duane - started reading!

no problem Jerry -

Just make sure its dry before you bag it. A paper grocery bag would be fine. Store it in a dry place since you are there in Florida. If you have a cedar chest or a cedar closet store it there. (Cedar closets are one the best inventions of Mankind) Just curious. You said the book is 'gold' colored, artificial gold foil on the face of outside covers? The money was sticking to that gold face? I looked at your photo again and it looks like the book is a plastic ringed binder? Im a little confused what kind of binding this is. Give us a shot of the binder cover if you can, where the money was stuck or impressed? Just looking for details. But taking it to a numismatist to examine still stands if its worth spending time on.

Serious question: are you Archie? No need to be shy. But, I can resonate with where you're coming from. Have you ever considered if the case were wide open or if solved ad we had a conclusion, then we all would be saying: "ah -ha! I knew it all along. Makes sense". I think the Cooper case is a lot like that. If we could find Sluggo's missing link, all things would connect. There is one thread that seems to run right down the middle of this whole case - a lack of crucial documented evidence. Into that void you can pour a whole universe and many will look for a Creator.