georger

It have a Cricket in my garden and he makes a lot of noise at night. Ckret, on the other hand, remains silent. BTW, the Indian engineers where I work are PISSED! They take Cricket very seriously and WI has ruined everything. 377 Cricket IS serious!!! Very srious. That Rankin guy was very lucky. Other people caught up under canopy in thunderstorms have not made it out alive. Bohan speaks of 80 knot headwinds as he encountered the cold front moving through. He actually would have encountered a cell in this front. H confirms this was a cold front so I assume that means down drafts at the boundary. Convection within cells is more complicated but potentially Cooper could have bailed into a strong down draft, or a mix of down & up drafts, or even in a boundary sheer between drafts (within a given cell) . Two weather maps for 11-24-71 are attached which show the front in question. I am not sure but rotation in this front may be counter clockwise which from the position of PDX makes for a SW to NE vector ? That might account for the "headwind" Bohan encountred given his direction of travel. But this front shows four cells. I am not sure from this data the exact direction and speed of each cell but potentially one of these cells is the cell Bohan and 305 encountered. Given the size of these cells I am wondering if Bohan and 305 did not have turbulence free flight until they encountered their cell? If we had a beginning position and knew the size and speed of travel of the cell encountered we might be able to predict when and where 305 and Bohan encountered (their) cell, which might help fix a flight path position and the zone Cooper bailed into. Direction of travel for Cooper would depend on wind rotation Cooper encountered otherwise he travels with the winds (SW to NE is the assumption?). If there was significant rotation toward the west, for example, then Cooper may have moved toward the west (whether under canopy or not). These are all tentative thoughts -

Check this out. The guy ejected in a violent storm at 47,000 ft. I'd guess his auto opener fired at about 10,000 ft. He spent over half an hour under a canopy very similar to Cooper's. 377 I hit paydirt, quickly. I forgot Sluggo has posted about this after talkling to H. This sinches it. I am posting entire posts below for accuracy - *********************************** snowmman PM Friend JumpsLicenseIn sport : : : Mar 8, 2009, 4:06 PM Post #8629 of 10519 (720 views) Copy Shortcut Registered: Mar 30, 2008Posts: 2458 georger's right that ckret commented on bohan [In reply to] Quote | Reply ckret's post was: Sluggo, I cannot find where an interview of Bohan was conducted by the FBI. His statement is a bit out of what had been reported by the various weather services the evening of the jump. To that end, as with all of the factors on the evening of the jump, you have to keep in mind that humans beings were involved in this incident. Human beings that don't have all the pieces of the puzzel in front of them. Human beings that don't know whats going to happen from minute to minute, and so on...... Some how you are going to have to take a look at the incident from two directions, a keen investigator with information after the fact and (this is the tough part) a person in the moment (with their knowledge and skill set) not knowing whats going to happen next and just reacting. and Sluggo_Monster United States Jumps License In sport : : : Mar 5, 2009, 6:13 PM Post #8462 of 10521 (647 views) Registered: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 461 Conversation With Ralph Himmelsbach [In reply to] Can't Post All, I just got off the phone with Ralph Himmelsbach. I told him I would keep it short and had only one or two questions for him. He was very cordial and gave me as much time and attention as he had to spare. I got in a little more than two questions. [NOTE: Before I go on, I want everyone to understand that I am just acting as a recorder here. I asked the questions that I thought were the ones that most of the group (not the secret DBC Club, but the posters on this forum) would want to know about considering the discussions going on today. I haven’t even taken the time to reflect fully on what he said and how it changes my beliefs about NORJAK. But I will have to change some beliefs. Items in green are my comments and/or notes.] I asked about whether Tom Bohan was a real person or fictionalization for/from his publishers. Ralph said that he was indeed real (now deceased) and he was flying a Continental Airlines 727-xxx about 4 min behind and 4,000 feet above (14,000 ft. MSL). [Sluggo Note: If Bohan was on approach to PDX he was most likely less than 240 kts, so 4 min. would be about 13-15 nm.] Ralph had breakfast with Bohan some ??? years after the hijacking. Bohan reported that the weather was terrible and he had an 80 kt. headwind while flying south. Bohan specific stated it was some of the worse weather he had ever flown in. Bohan told Ralph that when he landed at PDX ??? runway to the East, he was right at the “maximum demonstrated crosswind component” for the aircraft at that weight. I asked Ralph how the weather could have been so severe at 14,000 ft. and not so bad at 10,000 ft. He said it WAS bad at 10,000 ft, it was bad at 2,500 ft. where he was in an Army (possibly National Guard) helicopter. He said a cold front was coming in and there was turbulence and sustained winds throughout. I described the “Flight-path” on the SEA Sectional that was released by the FBI in November of 2007 and made sure he knew which one I was talking about. (There could be others that he would know about, but have not yet been released.) I then asked him how that chart was produced and who produced it. He replied (somewhat bluntly) I just don’t know. He speculated that it was the product of some ARTC engineers and some Northwest Airlines engineers, using radar and flight recorder information. [I got the sense that he had no faith in that document at all.]. I ask how far off of V-23 the plane might have been after they got down around Battle Ground or Orchards. He told me that “the pilots” were not under very much restriction at all and were “hand-flying” the plane because large jets aren’t happy on autopilot at low speeds and low altitude. We had a short discussion about the clearance language and how they were told they could bust altitude by as much as 4,000 feet without notice from ARTC. Neither of us knew what they would have needed to have done as far a horizontal deviation from V-23. He said (without commenting on how he knew this) that as they approached PDX they could have been as much as 20 miles East of V-23. I asked for clarification, was he saying statute miles or nautical miles. His response was “statute miles.” I commented about, in light of that statement, Jerry Thomas’s search in and NE of Dugan Falls would not be so far-fetched. He said Jerry was definitely on target. He went into a long monologue about Jerry and how much he respects Jerry’s efforts. I won’t write much about it here (I don’t want Jerry to get a swelled head Smile), but it was obvious to me (and Sugar) that he thinks a lot of Jerry. Interspersed in this whole conversation was a lot of stuff about why he thinks Cooper wasn’t an experienced jumper. We were getting into why no one has ever come forward and why he thinks the “new” publicity (including this forum and my web-site, (he reads neither)) could possibly get someone to come forward and ID Cooper when he got another call. I thanked him and he said to call anytime I had questions. I told him I would, but would try not to be a pest. That’s all I have. But that’s enough to keep me thinking for a few days. Sluggo_Monster [edit] I reposted here and now Sluggo's post shows up complete - have no idea what happened on the first try.

Check this out. The guy ejected in a violent storm at 47,000 ft. I'd guess his auto opener fired at about 10,000 ft. He spent over half an hour under a canopy very similar to Cooper's. from Wikipedia: In the summer of 1959, William Rankin was flying from South Weymouth Naval Air Station, Massachusetts to Beaufort, North Carolina. He was climbing over a thunderhead that peaked at 45,000 ft (13.7 km), when—at 47,000 ft (14.3 km) and at mach 0.82—he heard a loud bump and rumble from the engine. The rpm fell to zero, and the fire warning light flashed.[1] He pulled a lever to deploy auxiliary power, but the lever broke off in his hands. Although the temperature outside was −50°C and he was not wearing a pressure suit, he was forced to eject. At 6:00 pm, he ejected.[1] He suffered immediate frostbite, and decompression caused his eyes, ears, nose, and mouth to start bleeding. His abdomen swelled as if he were pregnant. Pain seared his body, though numbed by the cold. He managed to use his emergency oxygen supply.[1] Five minutes after he left the plane, his parachute still hadn't opened. Finally, still in the upper regions of the thunderstorm, with near-zero visibility, the parachute opened. After ten minutes, when he normally would have already landed, Rankin was still in the air, being carried upward by updrafts and getting hit by hailstones. Violent spinning and pounding caused him to vomit. Lightning appeared, which he described as blue blades several feet thick, and thunder, which was so close he could feel as well as hear it. The rain forced him to hold his breath to keep from drowning. One lightning bolt lit up the parachute, making Rankin believe he had died.[1] Soon, however, conditions calmed, and he descended into a forest. His watch read 6:40 pm. He searched for help and eventually was admitted into a hospital at Ahoskie, North Carolina.[1] He suffered from frostbite welts, bruises, and severe decompression. 377 Good account. I am sure there are many like accounts. Scott says turbulence was one of the reasons they called back to Cooper to see if he was still there and/or ok. Why? Bombs in turbulence are problematic! I think they were wondering about the bomb. But, the statistician in me in warning: get a third independent account which verifies and maybe defines "turbulence" that night, and then I think we have something solid. If I recall, Snow finally dismissed Bohan's report also, but I cant find his posts on this so I am unsure ... and I dont recall his reasoning. This may be much to do about nothing or if real it has ramifications - even to Jerry's searches.

Agree Georger. Good point and well worth further inquiry. It raises the possibility that the Cooper exit was nowhere near where most assumed it was. Still, we have that darned Ingram money find which ropes us back into the general area where Jerry is searching. 377 Several things tie into this for me. The FBI (H through Ckret) relied on "bad wx" as a basic premise in their theory: Cooper did not survive. But to this very hour nobody in the FBI has ever defined what "bad weather" is/was. That baffles me. H basically tossed out Bohan's report as spurious. There is literally NOTHING in the transcripts to suggest turbulence on the level Bohan said he encountered (4 mi behind and 4000ft above 305). Then Scott finally surfaces and says: "turbulence". But Ckret offhandedly says he spoke to military authorities who said they would "never-ever" deploy their paratroupers in weather "like that" (whatever "like that" is). Then we here (Snow etal) searched for weather records and found nothing to back Bohan up. Others also searched and found nothing (I know for a fact). So in the end we at this forum dismissed Bohan's report just as H dismisses it, and still the FBI theory is: "foul wx contributed to Cooper's demise" and found weather includes the word "storm". If Bohan encountered severe turbulence (right on my nose, he said) at 14,000 ft, then severe crosswinds at the ground landing at PDX, that adds up to a front with serious hi alt turbulence "headers" rising at least to 14,000 feet. In my neck-o-the-woods that would qualify as a storm with high winds. Point being: turbulence could have affected where Cooper went, where the money went and how far, and the FBI still relies on that premise but does not define it while still saying 'it contributed to Cooper's demise, andwe are SURE he died!". And the transcripts don't even mention weather as a significant factor! Something is amiss.

To me, it strengthens the argument Cooper wanted to bail asap once they had left SEA. No lingering, turbulence or not. He had to know there was turbulence. No evidence of blood on the stairs or plane from quash-marks that I know of! Ckret would have said something - who could resist. I have to wonder if Bohan and 305 encountered a small active front moving SW to NE, which might help confirm the area of the jump if we had data. Severe cross winds on the ground at PDX (Bohan) plus hight alt turbulence 10-14,000 feet north of the Columbia at 20:05 sounds like a small active fast moving front with strong convective currents to me - your typical small Fall storm for that area? I think 377 commented about these before ... But imagine Cooper calling up and saying "stabilise this plane!" (in turbulence ~20:05). If I was Rat I would have called back: "You come up here and fly this thing!" (and a perfect opportunity to dump one hijacker, except you think he has a bomb so you dont). This new fact of turbulence also destroys any thought I previously had about "fine trim" of the plane during this period so I am re-thinking things also. Fine trim to know when somebody has bailed is fiction during turbulence... It sure sounds like Cooper was ancy to bail in the WA-OR area, turbulence or not. He could have just waited if he knew they were flying south and headed to calmer conditions? (Would it have been the same had they taken the coastal route? We will never know) But, I am sitting here wondering IF Cooper opens the NB6/8 in strong upward drafts where does that potentially take him? To Idaho!? Or if he doesnt open where does he go? Can his money pouch stay on him? ............. I'll stop. Too many questions.

How is Sunday evening for you for a talk?

Yes, several things besides Cooper's exit could have caused the stairs to swing up. A sudden drop by the aircraft or an upward gust pentrated by the aircraft could do it. Either could happen in turbulent conditions. I have stood on the tailgates of Skyvans, CASA 212s and a C 130A. They extend out from the fuselage but not down. You can feel upward deflection being limited by the downlocks if you stand on them during turbulence. If not for the locks they would slam up for sure. You are right Georger, either there was turbulence or there wasn't. In that kind of unstable weather I'd sure bet on a yes. If you add Bohan's report it seems pretty likely that the NWA plane was not having a smooth flight that night in the presumed jump area. 377 I am thinking more "sudden drop" due to turbulence then stairs slam up and the 'bump'. Key here is there were no "oscillations" during any FBI tests. Oscillations may have been stairs "oscillating" in the overall conditions: wheels down, flaps 15 or 30*, plus wind turbulence moving the whole aircraft around like a wiener in the wind? The stairs are tucked up under the rear airframe and so protected from the airstream to some extent. So what you need is the whole aircraft girating in order to set up a vibration in the rear stairs extended out. The FBI tests had wheels down and flaps at 15 or 30 degrees and still they got no 'oscillations' from the rear stairs extended, so I have to believe you need something in addition to wheels and flaps - you need over-all turbulence (cross winds and up-down vectored winds). We also were never told if these stairs retract quickly or can linger before retracting, once weight is off them? We assume the stairs were not locked. That has always been the assumption. There is also the possibility Cooper could have been out on the stairs when a sudden drop occurred - and if that happened could Cooper have been thrown off or squashed!? Put yourself in Scott or Rat's shoes when Turbulence is added to this equation. The pilot is trying to level off, slow, keep stable - all in turbulence - to allow Cooper to bail. Whoever the pilot was, that must have been a nerve wracking task. There is one more element to consider. Scott had already been told to 'land as quickly as possible' AFTER Cooper bailed. If they actually knew Cooper was gone before PDX, why didnt they land at PDX? They werent sure Cooper was gone. And one of th reasons they may not have been sure is the general turbulence they were flying in, which made it difficult to discriminate signs of a 'jump" vs signs of turbulence, so they went on around PDX and flew further south - I think turbulence may have played a role in everything and we just havent acknowledged that to date - and the FBI hasnt either! turbulence

p.s. i doubt any of you are watching but the West Indies just pulled off a brilliant defeat of India in the World T20 cricket tournament. I love the way WI plays because even when it looks like all is lost, they never stop trying and this is one of a couple I have seen now where they snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, and I love the way they are rewarded for their sportsmanship. Completely off topic, and most of you probably don't even know what cricket is , but hey ;) just thought i'd mention it. Im not anti-Mayfield. I like the guy. Hell I would spend time with that guy and bounce beers. I am very much anti-Meyers. Meyers went way beyond bounds and needs a lawyer! Mayfield was just not Cooper. Mayfield is probably more curious about who Cooper was than we or even Meyers is!. Ted has has a good life! M is a schmuck by comparison. Ted may even wish he had never made his call to H (to become famous!). So I like Teddy from afar, but he was not Cooper. -------------- Congrats on your Cricket. Here its basketball and LA (Lakers) vs Orlando (The Magic) and my Lakers won last night.

hmmm... I wonder if the pressure bump might have not been from Cooper's exit but from turbulence? I have always wondered if you could do sort of a flying leap exit out the door rather than walking down the stairs? Walking down the stairs would create a big deflection as you decended that would result in a big rebound when you jumped. A flying leap might not do much to the stairs if it was made from high up near the pivit point. I think the sled test proved that a jump off the bottom of the stairs would create a pressure bump, but iot doesnt prove that Cooper jumped form the bottom of the stairs. I am trying to think what a skydiver would do? Leap close to the top or walk down to the bottom and step off? On my DC 9 jet jump I lept. I didnt walk down the ramp, but the ramp was within the fuselage and didnt extend outside like the 727 stairs did. Orange, what would you have done? Twardo? Any jumper? 377 377 Either there was TURBULENCE/severe or there wasn't. Turbulence is nowhere in the FBI tests or in any formal accounting of the events say 20:00-20:15. All formal accounts to date including Ckrtet's, leave turbulence out. That may have been a mistake. Bohan's report (to Ken Hastings at PDX) is real or it isn't. I have already reported I tried to find out. If Bohan's report still exists (which is doubtful) nobody at PDX or in Continental is going to take the time today to get to the bottom of this. But I know for a fact Bohan and Ken Hastings (mgr at PDX) were personal friends. I think Bohan's report about turbulence (severe) coming into PDX and "severe cross winds landing at PDX" - is real. Scott now alludes to it, actually states it as fact, in his talk to the flight club in AZ. How does this impact 'oscillaltions' and 'bump'. I dont know. Could it impact both? Yes. Are flap settings during this period important? Yes. Did this impact Cooper bailing? Probably yes. How does all of this relate to flight path? Well, no matter whose version of the FP you take, Ckret's or H's, "turbulence" seems to be a fact as stated by both Scott and Bohan. Who else was flying that area that night and mentioned turbulence? Is there a third or even fourth account we dont know about that could have implications for nailing down the exact route 305 was flying? If Scott had turbulence at 10K feet or slightly lower and Bohan has turbulence 4000 feet higher, what does that imply? (strong convection currents circulating at least btwn 10k and 14k ft.). Could the plane dropping in turbulence have slammed the stairs back up mimicking a jump? Maybe - Im not sure. Those are just a few of the things that come to mind but it is a serious issue never explored before -

Ted's only interest is as an envious spectator who happens to know H after a hijacking by parachute has occurred in 'Ted's' own backyard! The guy is a kibitzer. Thats all. Its funny that Meyers & his buddy would nail Ted of all people! It proves that if you stand in one spot long enough 'something will happen'! No wonder Ted is pissed. After a major crime you sometimes get two kinds of calls - cranks and the criminal who did it! That is the premise Meyers was working from. Meyers just couldnt tell the difference. I tend to think Teddy was calling H as much to get info as to give any. In the meantime Cooper is dead or long gone .... but Teddy wants to know! He calls H. He then joins H in the search. I have no doubt Ted gave H and others his wisdom about parachuting etc in order to "help", but what came of it? Nothing. Compare Teddy to McCoy to get a real scale on this. Teddy is a Teddy-Bear. That Meyers would seriously call out Teddy says far more about Meyers than Ted. Its absurd.

Not in quotes (“ “) in the article as posted. I assume, not Scott’s words. Here is the turbulence passage from Snow's post. snowmman Jul 8, 2008, 11:02 PM Post #3430 of 10119 (1277 views) Registered: Mar 30, 2008 Posts: 2458 Re: [Mr.Nuke] Scott gave at least one talk (1997) [In reply to] 3) The information about turbulence being the reason Scott tried to contact Cooper on the PA (for the apparent 2005 exchange) is new. I've never heard turbulence being the reason before. In fact, this turbulence thing is weird. We were told about a "curtsy" or adjustment of trim needed. We all thought this was caused by the stairs. But now we're hearing about air turbulence. I'm inclined to believe Scott here. But it seems like new info to me. Thoughts on this? She joined Scott and the co-pilot in the cockpit. Later, the plane ran into turbulence. Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?'' ``Yeah, everything is fine,'' Cooper replied. After a while, Scott noticed that the cabin gauges were fluctuating wildly. (This post was edited by snowmman on Jul 8, 2008, 11:11 PM) If Scott said the above, this confirms Bohan's report of strong turbulence in the same area (including severe cross winds at PDX which Bohan said he filed a report on). This means that turbulence was a factor during the period around jump. The FBI tests were not conducted in turbulence. *There is NO mention of this turbulence in the NWA or PI transcripts, at least none I can find. Were flaps at 15* or 30* during this turbulence, as Ckret has told us the pilot was trying to slow and get stable for Cooper to jump? And, quite frankly, Oscillations were not reported in the FBI test. (Oscillations~Turbulence? There was no turbulence during the FBI test) Then can we be assured the Bump was from Cooper leaving the stairs only vrs. the plane dropping in turbulence and the stairs slamming backup, with Cooper already gone before this event? Strong turbulence could change this whole equation. If Scott's words are true, if Bohan's report is true, then turbulence was a factor nobody has discussed openly to date.

I am sure dna ruled Mayfield out. To me he doesnt remotely fit the phys. or psych. profile. I think his calling H was a pure act of bravado and self importance. Did all parachutists call in saying "not me!"? I think in reality H was busy and only Teddy was thinking, 'I need to call H and tell him its not me'. He's an over baked ham!

This line caught my eye: " She joined Scott and the co-pilot in the cockpit. Later, the plane ran into turbulence." Is this the same turbulence Bohan reported? Because, it would be in the same general area (time frame) that Bohan supposedly mentioned encountering strong turbulence 4000ft higher . Timeframe is: 7:54 (Tina in cockpit) to ~8:12 (Oscillations) ... Scott may be confirming Bohan's report? But, notice also Scott uses this petard -7 below zero. He never says Centigrade. He knows better! He's charming the tribe.

I haven't read the Meyers posts, but I will. Thanks, Georger, for spelling out the dates. The tip I got from Snow on searches here was: Proper names search best. examples: Mayfield, H, Ckret, Himmeslbach, Barb, Forman, Solderlind, etc. subject searchs are tougher and take several tries, maybe multiple tries, to yield a good list, examples: flight path, Cooper money, placard ... but if you can link a proper name to a subject catagory, eg. Bohan (Continental flight behind 305) that may take you to a number of posts over a period during which time a general subject catagory was being discussed .... Im no expert, but that's how I try and do it -

I agree about the phone call not ruling him out Bruce, but as you point out, the composite description is not a good match to Mayfield. I wonder if Tina or Flo or the ticket agent were ever shown photos of Teddy M? In my experience in criminal law you would not believe how inaccurate some drawings and witness descriptions were. Ted M was a MAJOR risk taker, with his own life and unfortunately also with the lives of skydiving students. Still a person of interest in my book. 377 I think the fact he knew H resulted in a very deep long term watch of Mayfield.. more than the average person with no connections to FBI. There is nothing worse than some insider pulling a stunt and using LE to do it. LE tends to frown heavily on that. Mayfield was an easy target for Meyers and his friend. They simply went way too far too fast.. turned out bad and I gather Meyer's friend is gone (died near the end of the investigation)? That's how it surfaced back in the WS forum. That was sad. But, you dont go after someone like Mayfield with "light tackle" and publish it all before its even done! That's No.1.

There are only two 727 "cabin gauges" temp and pressure, both on the flight engineers panel not the pilots panel. The temp wouldn't fluctuate wildly and given that the plane was flying unpressurized, doubt if the pressure gauge would show wild movement over a large arc even when the door rebounded. 377 You have to admit Scott's take on things (caught many people's attention). We discussed this before when Snow was here. His suddenly giving a talk was unusual enough given his previous reluctance to say anything that mattered - I think Snow & I had the same impression; he was giving the Company line with a few pointless embellishments all of which added up to Big Fat 0 (right back where he started). Kind of funny when you think about it. But, no doubt it sets the Kiwanis (flight club it was) on fire. The hero in the flesh. Saying everything and nothing. Funny. Maybe Im missing something important but it there is something important, it must be in code?

You aren't Ghandi ! And I'm not Jerry Springer ! Maybe that's your confusion.

Let's get back to Cooper. Got any info/thoughts about this! ? snowmman Jul 8, 2008, 7:10 PM Post #3408 of 10119 (1261 views) Registered: Mar 30, 2008 Posts: 2458 Scott gave at least one talk (1997) [In reply to] Can't Post I found this news article about a talk Scott gave in 1997 to a local Aero club where he lived. (edit) It's the first news article at this search http://news.google.com/...st+pack&ie=UTF-8 I bolded some interesting things. Scott talks about a makeshift waist pack, with money being transferred to it from the original bag. He wouldn't have seen this. So he's interpreting from something. Tina? This would be interesting if there's any truth to it, as it might mean the money arrived on the ground in something other than the bank bag? He also mentions that turbulence triggered his exchange with Cooper at 2005? So that's interesting. Note Scott seemed to like the Lake Merwin LZ idea. Maybe they listened to Scott more than Rataczak? One who was there tells intriguing tales of DB Cooper Arizona Daily Star - NewsBank - Jan 21, 1997 After a quarter of a century, D.B. Cooper still packs the house. Well, to be precise, it was actually pilot William Scott's recent talk at the Aero Club of Arizona - an organization for aviation enthusiasts - that pulled in a standing-room-only crowd. The Aero Club, which has about 100 members in the Tucson and Green Valley area, presents speakers on everything from the Civil Air Patrol to aerobatic flying. .. When they reached Seattle, they flew in a holding pattern until Cooper's demands were met. Scott didn't tell the plane's 36 passengers what was happening. ``But I think they got the message when the stewardess came down the aisle with a parachute over her shoulder,'' he added, cracking up the audience. When the plane landed in Seattle, Cooper released the passengers and two of the stewardesses, collected the loot and the three extra parachutes and told Scott to fly to Mexico. They were to stop in Reno, Nev., to refuel. ``I was happy he negotiated over the phone through Tina (Mucklow, the stewardess),'' Scott said. Once Cooper got his sack of money, he ordered Scott to fly as low and slowly as possible and drop the back steps. After cutting up a parachute, he emptied the sack of loot and began stuffing $20 bills into his makeshift waist pack. When Mucklow expressed astonishment at the huge pile of money, Cooper reached over and handed her a stack of bills. ``We can't take tips,'' she said. Instructing Mucklow to go forward, he told her to pull the curtain between the first class and coach sections. He said that she was to turn the lights down, and she wasn't to look back. She joined Scott and the co-pilot in the cockpit. Later, the plane ran into turbulence. Scott wondered if Cooper was still aboard. Turning on the public address system, he inquired, ``Is everything all right, sir?'' ``Yeah, everything is fine,'' Cooper replied. After a while, Scott noticed that the cabin gauges were fluctuating wildly. ``I thought maybe I'd call him, but I thought maybe I'd just not bother him,'' he said. In Reno, Scott managed to land the plane with the steps down without damaging aircraft. Before leaving the plane, he and the crew searched for Cooper's briefcase but were unable to find it. Cooper had jumped in a business suit and street shoes from the plane, which was traveling about 190 miles an hour at 10,000 feet. At that altitude the temperature was 7 below zero. Cooper - with 20 pounds of money strapped to his waist - had dropped into some of the most rugged country in the Pacific Northwest. ``There was a big reservoir down there with trees in it,'' Scott said. ``I just thought he went down there and got wrapped up in the trees.'' (This post was edited by snowmman on Jul 8, 2008, 10:06 PM)

Mayfield was discussed approx Jan-June 2008. Matt Meyers (sp?) was here and posted extensively. Your first post on that topic did not happen until 4 March 2008; you were busy posting other things. Ckret finally posted Jun 13th saying: Ckret JumpsLicenseIn sport : : : Jun 13, 2008, 9:33 AM Post #2528 of 10336 (1442 views) Registered: Sep 7, 2007Posts: 522 Re: [Orange1] Scratching The Head [In reply to] Can't Post Mayfield is subject #3 out of 1057 and yes a full investigation was conducted to include far more than fingerprint analysis. You can find all the posts by entering _Mayfield_ in the search line. That's all it takes -

I have NEVER asked you to PM me, about ANYTHING! I HAVE ASKED YOU A THOUSAND TIMES TO STOP PM ING ME! I HAVE ASKED PUBLICALLY MANY TIMES! (others have done the same and you ignored them!) LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE! KAN U REED ?

Tolerance? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its not just me - Its out of my hands. WHY? !!! ??? ARE YOU ADDRESSING ME ON THIS!? YOU NEED____ TO BE ADDRESSING YOUR FRIEND JO WEBER. THAT IS ELEMENTARY.

It's not even a meaningful coincidence, in my opinion. A friend of mine went to Berlin on holiday in 1989 and arrived there the day before the wall came down. Applying the way you think about Duane, I would have to assume that he played a part in that event. Sometimes coincidences are just that. And here's a tip: if you actually go looking for coincidences, you find plenty. On such bases conspiracy theories multiply. Jo's tactics are completely INCOMPATABLE with truth or truth-telling. Jo continues to HARRASS PEOPLE withher UNSOLICITED-UNWANTED PMS AND EMAIL - and she is now at risk for having her isp contacted and SHUT DOWN! People are literally fed up with her tactics and harrassment and if she has a brain in her head SHE WILL STOP AND STOP NOW! Her isp is aware of the problem and they will act to shut her down if she does not stop. I doubt Jo will take this seriously so there is every chance Jo is about to VANISH at this forum and off the internet! Jo's whole story is a fabric of coincidence "she claims" supports her case. Her story has expanded faster than the universe itself can expand! Nuff said. Georger

No problem whatever. I had your back in any event.

Babes and mothers doing well. Thanks for asking...

so re 377's note that means that what "some think" is ...wrong Jerry, the silver sulfate was for what, do you know? http://www.policensw.com/info/fingerprints/finger14.htm "Some think this is circumstantial evidence of pre T Bar storage" - is more wishful thinking on the part of people used to wishful thinking. "Some say" the Cooper money shows evidence of pre T-Bar storage . . . . . at the SEAFIRST BANK in Seattle!