georger

Guess you missed the part where I said they ALREADY caught him. I suggested he should be questioned. Seemed like a reasonable thought, since he hit a house less than two blocks from Cossey's place. Meyer Louie also says: ***'There's a lot more I want to say about this, but, unlike someone I know, I'm going to practice restraint and reserve comment...' Slightly hypocritical statement. You've suggested previously he could have been murdered, or set up for murder, by his ex-wife. I wouldn't call that 'restraint'. misdirected post #3,796.........you talking to Meyer or Shutter??????????????????????????? Blevins 'tangled web' never leads anywhere ... but to more tangled webs of abstraction. Who is Blevins trying to convince of what!? Does it ever matter?

So why should I listen to you? Quote Good question! Took you 3 years to figure that out! Took Sluggo only 24 hours! oh well... Romney is on Leno and my phone is ringing ... must go! Maybe taking more than $40 to the DB Cooper case casino was your first mistake? The rest is history. Maybe you should have skipped Decoded, Newsvine, the book, and Dropzone ... and gone straight to American Idol with your song and dance?

How about quoting the more recent comment I made on Cossey? Then maybe people will understand why I made it, and why your post is so senseless. It was a solid update that included a *possible* suspect: Quote Why are you telling us!? Shouldn't you be telling LE or Lindsay? (Lohan) Next time maybe update the update of the update of the update, so we are updated on which update to update? On 2nd thought, why am I paying any attention to you at all!

: I WAS SAYING, IN YOUR QUOTE ABOVE, THAT THE PLACARD AND MONEY FOUND AT TINA BAR WERE DEFINITELY SIGNIFICANT IN DETERMINING THE FLIGHT PATH OF THE HIJACKED AIRLINER. In case you don't remember, Hominid was saying that they were not significant. I fully understand that you are claiming the money was planted at Tina Bar by Duane. I assume that you are still claiming that the flight path was EAST of Portland and that the placard blew UPWIND to the location where it was found. Robert99 At the point below were they found the Placard there was a directional change in the plane just below that. If the Aft Stair was down or partially down - the winds could have caught it and the placard it would have ended ed up where it was found. It was past that point Cooper jumped...just a little further East and South of that. My map have been TAKEN or I lost them...so I am doing this from memory! I will make a correction later if I find I am wrong. exactly what direction did the plane change at this point? attached - will get you more tonight.

maybe best just to ignore the ADD robot ..? I mean: not all states of the universe are relevant, must be taken into account, in order to butter bread on one's kitchen counter! I never ask Blevins if I may get in my car a go to town! I would be going in circles forever if I did - In other words: JUST IGNORE THE TROLL

ah yes I forgot! You and AB Books & House Cleaning OWN the Cossey case! I should-uv known! Never fails... Is it OK with you if Law Enforcement gets involved?

You know, Meyer...you came down pretty hard on me for suggesting that Cossey's murder was probably related to a burglary. And then the Woodinville police chief classifies it as such at a recent City Council meeting. I had to sit here and read major frickin' insults from you about that. Now...you have the nerve to start naming suspects? You are hinting that Cossey's elderly wife had something to do with it? WTH is that all about? You have not a clue from any of the limited information that has been released to even go down that path. At least when I said it was a possible burglary-in-progress, I had something to go on. The cops photographing window latches, for example, and other things around the front door. Those were shown on KIRO-TV. Also, the history of excessive burglaries in Cossey's neighborhood. _______________________________________________ I'll go down any path I choose to. Bite me. As if you have any room to talk -- with all your never-ending, outlandish, ridiculous, non-substantiated claims and speculations. Since I have the nerve to speculate wildly, let me continue.... You bet your ass the former Mrs. Cossey is a suspect, and will be until she can be crossed off the suspect list. She's probably at the top of that list, it's SOP -- investigators always start with family members. And why is that Blevins? Do you know? That's right, with homicides, the probability is quite high that a family member or friend of the victim will be the perpetrator. Why might there be suspicion with Mrs. Cossey? Well, let's see now.....Earl Cossey and Mrs. Cossey are married for years and years. Then they suddenly get divorced (even a friend of 30 years is surprised by that development --friends of 30 years usually see the marital problems of their friends coming -- it's rarely a surprise -- at least that's been the case with my life-long friends who've gone through divorces). A year after the divorce, Earl Cossey is brutally murdered. I'm not saying the wife did it, or it's a murder for hire, but the timing is mighty interesting, a red flag if you will -- sooooo, it needs to be checked out, period. The ex has to be considered a suspect until she can be officially eliminated. What's so crazy about that, Blevins? It's SOP in homicide investigations. The police photographed window latches and "other things" around the front door. Okay, good, so what? You know Blevins, burglaries are not always random. Thieves with inside knowledge of where the loot is stored can be the most dangerous. Loose lips over cocktails, with a monster, at the casino, is all it takes, So, there it is, my wild speculations about possible suspects. Don't like that, Blevins? Don't really care. MeyerLouie Quote I tend to think the gambling is a lead to follow especially if he was known (by certain people!) to keep cash around. $25k would be enough for someone doing something stupid and if caught by Coss then a struggle and any old guy would get the worst of it ... what a sad tale whatever it is! Good luck with it - ... Never take more than $40 to a casino! The meal should be $20 and that leaves $20 for the penny slots. You can sit and sip two beers and raise hell all night and have a wonderful time on $20! And be sober to drive home avoiding deer, smelling the fresh midnight air all the way home, looking for ufo's, and listening to Dolly Parton on the radio - life can be good!

Key phrase: 'right under the FP' (Flight path) Blevins I sense a massive failure to communicate. It's not personal. If you don't understand what WE are talking about how can you possibly criticise it? It works both ways! We can also not understand what you are talking about ... its not personal. Ani dober b'ivrit. Qen? Lo? Kah-ha ka-ha. You dont understand this. I dont understand you. We speak a different language. We are different people... So here's what to do: (a) Continue as you have been with whatever it is seems to make sense to you. (b) Believe everything Tom Kaye says. If TK say green, think green, whatever colour that is to you/ If Tom say 'take two steps right', then take two steps right. Say everything TK says verbatim. Everything should work out fine. And keep off our 10% of the island! You and Jo can have the other 90% ! Ma nish ma? mosal tov. erev tov. Good nite Irene!

Let's take just one of your straw men above - the evidence. Maybe you can enlighten us about what this evidence you keep referring to is? The "official flight path" is nothing more than 2 maps, one with an attempt to put time stamps on it. That map is not evidence but the result of supposed evidence(s). Where is this evidence you keep talking about? The radio transcripts and the maps have been in place for some years now. No one has been able to discredit them to date. If you think they are wrong, go to the sources. As for me, I believe them unless new evidence to the contrary comes along. It's also 'Put Up or Shut Up' if you are going to question those items. You're asking me. You should be investigating sources. Well that reply makes no sense at all! Insignificance is like a painted flower; it never wilts. Chair when number eleven shakes beliefs widely held. Utter nonsense lies ahead, what with the future yet to come. Blevins significance is a storyteller without equal because Stupidity approaches at high velocity!

Congratulations to you fellows on your literature research and findings! Now do you understand how space programs apply to the search for Cooper? No. Actually, I don't. I favor hard evidence and the like. You'll never be able to prove anything about Cooper by speculating or theorizing on wind currents, or fancy math formulas as applied to the placard. Because you will never to be able to prove those formulas. It's ridiculous. Radar will tell you a lot more about the position of 305 at any given time during the flight than any descending placard. A gust here, another there on the way down from thousands of feet. You can't prove a thing about it that has any relation to the case. Say this, say that. But you will never know for sure, no matter how you try to squeeze numbers. And then you will see people debate on these numbers or those numbers...in some pathetic attempt to prove an LZ, or a reason why the money ended up at Tina Bar. Blevins, Check your local phone book for Community Colleges in your area. See if they offer summer courses in any elementary mathematics or physical science area. If they do, take the courses. Then take additional courses this fall, winter, next summer, etc.. Maybe in a couple of years you will have some understanding of what you have written above. Robert99 Already been there. Green River CC is a real nice place. And so is WWU, as long as you can live on Food Stamps, CETA, work-study, the GI Bill, and other sources. My family may be rich now, but I pride myself on being just a po' boy from the sticks. Anytime you are ready to present solid evidence that Flight 305 was on the WEST side of the Interstate 5 freeway any distance north of Portland, I'm all ears. Quote solid evidence That's the problem isnt it! Solid evidence. You dont have the faintest idea what solid evidence is. It destroyed your KC work and it has destroyed your entire credibility as a functioning member of society!

Congratulations to you fellows on your literature research and findings! Now do you understand how space programs apply to the search for Cooper? No. Actually, I don't. I favor hard evidence and the like. You'll never be able to prove anything about Cooper by speculating or theorizing on wind currents, or fancy math formulas as applied to the placard. Because you will never to be able to prove those formulas. It's ridiculous. Radar will tell you a lot more about the position of 305 at any given time during the flight than any descending placard. A gust here, another there on the way down from thousands of feet. You can't prove a thing about it that has any relation to the case. Say this, say that. But you will never know for sure, no matter how you try to squeeze numbers. And then you will see people debate on these numbers or those numbers...in some pathetic attempt to prove an LZ, or a reason why the money ended up at Tina Bar. Blevins, Check your local phone book for Community Colleges in your area. See if they offer summer courses in any elementary mathematics or physical science area. If they do, take the courses. Then take additional courses this fall, winter, next summer, etc.. Maybe in a couple of years you will have some understanding of what you have written above. Robert99 Quote Blevins says: Because you will never to be able to prove those formulas. It's ridiculous. Arent you talking about the applicability of a formula, because formulae are just mathematical structures used in empirical analysis? I think what you are trying to say is that you think formulas used fail some test of validity, efficacy, completeness, and sufficiency (ie. all the meta tests any empirical analysis must satisfy) ? Or, are you saying something more broad, that empirical science can never supply a correct analysis at all in this case? That you would have had to be the placard to know and that feelings and intuitions of the placard must be applied in addition to scientific tests? Or, are yous saying that ONLY Tom Kaye and RoibertMBlevins can divine the truth? Who taught you to divine the truth? Or is none of this correct and you are just bullshitting the Thread once again in order to grab attention fr your audacity?

Let's take just one of your straw men above - the evidence. Maybe you can enlighten us about what this evidence you keep referring to is? The "official flight path" is nothing more than 2 maps, one with an attempt to put time stamps on it. That map is not evidence but the result of supposed evidence(s). Where is this evidence you keep talking about?

Don't laugh. Snowmman found official docs about use of the SR 71 to look for Cooper. Really. 377 Funny.

The research predates the placard find but was updated after 1978.. its an interesting read. Credit once again goes to Hominid.

Try: "Free-Fall Rotation and Aerodynamic Motion of Rectangular Plates & Miscellaneous Shapes ...", SC-RR-68-132, Parts A & B, August 1968 rev 1978, A.C. Bustamante etal, A.N.S.D. 9510. You really like to show people how smart you are, don't you? It's like a drug to you I've noticed. Education without common sense is like learning to drive - and then living someplace where there aren't any cars. I'm not in the investigation business. I only did that once. If you want someone to question people at the casino, ask The Investigator. I got enough to do. Oh! So you were going to investigate at the casino anyway. Orange hair might help?

Try: "Free-Fall Rotation and Aerodynamic Motion of Rectangular Plates & Miscellaneous Shapes ...", SC-RR-68-132, Parts A & B, August 1968 rev 1978, A.C. Bustamante etal, A.N.S.D. 9510.

Killer or burglar? Oh, both I suppose. Maybe random burglary, maybe planned. You are probably right about the back and forth. I'm not going along with Meyer Louie's Family Planning version of a murder for financial gain until I see an arrest. One reason is because of the mailing of the credit cards and ID back to Cossey's house. Cops sure are being tight with the details on this one. REALLY tight. No one knows why, either. RobertMBlevins Investigations should go down to that casino and pump/interview every person in the place for info ... who knows you might solve the case!

I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, and obviously haven't put as much thought into this as you have... But am I misunderstanding something, or did in fact the placard land in a spot that would be considered 'upwind' of even the most liberal estimation of the currently accepted flight path? I don't know much about the placard to give any response too, perhaps Robert99 or Georger...... Hominid did an analysis of the placard drop, using govt placard drop test data (yes such tests were conducted). The placard for all practical purposes is right under the FP and obeyed the drift parameters assumed in the NWA DZ La Center probability map - the white chart. One central issue is: did those same winds (drift) apply if Cooper bailed further south? Ckret and the FBI seem to assume yes. Then if the FP itself needs adjustment south of the placard drop point, how would that affect winds (drift)? The NWA la Center chart basically assumes the same wind patterns in all drop sectors, at least I think that is the case? Maybe R99 and Hominid have a different opinion ... ?? What was the opening of the stairs when the placard left? Also: It is my expectation the FBI etal are not going to give up their current FP easily, unless and until 'convincing' contra-data is presented with documentation. This is the conclusion of those who have worked with the FBI etal on this issue. I think we all already assumed that. Let me review some notes tonight and maybe make a further comment.

If Cooper had landed in the Columbia River he would have gone downstream. So Cooper had to land on the narrow strip of land that is between the Columbia River and the NW Lower River Road. In addition, there is no evidence that the money travelled very far in any direction and that limits the north/south Cooper landing point. Robert99 Quote Many things, not just Cooper money, get to Tina Bar and leave Tina Bar, naturally. Everything from logs and lumber to things described in the Palmer Report. Maybe Blevins could give us a list of the things discussed in the Palmer report, since he claims to have a copy? It is somewhat interesting to me that in this decades old soliloquy about the Tina Bar money, there has been no discussion about how known things naturally get to Tina Bar; except for a short discussion by 377 and Snowman early in this thread, and Robert99 trying to incorporate flow and movement into his thinking, Palmer etal trying to account for it in his report, and Tom Kaye sequestering the Cooper money from everything else that manages to find its way to Tina Bar by natural means, to be found there by anyone! Things arrive at Tina Bar and some things are retained for a time and then move on; some things leaving artifacts behind like nails etc. That is the natural story for any shoreline. For everything that is but the DB Cooper money ... and the Russian submarine which picked up Duane at Tina Bar and moved out to deliver Duane back to Salt Lake City! We have physics being suspended in the cabins of airliners, Russian suibmarines that come and go in the Columbia, and DB Cooper money which is immune to the natural forces of nature in a water-borne environment!

_______________________________________________ I think even Mr. H has acknowledges that the FBI had it wrong -- the search area. Only one iota of anything was ever found (no parachute, no streamer, no briefcase, no moneybag, no loafers -- just the aft door placard) in the search area, and it's been said more than once, "You'd think something would have turned up by now." This is evidence (that's right, the lack of it) that Cooper most likely didn't jump here. Whatever algorithm or procedure was used to determine the jump zone, it was wrong. So, something is amiss. Moreover, the money find at Tena Bar might also indicate the calculations were off -- like maybe by quite a bit way off. Might Cooper have ended up more south and more east than what was originally estimated? Did we get faked out by that pressure bump? Entirely possible...... MeyerLouie Correct, I was just saying that to Blevins since he thought everyone knew everything about where Cooper jumped. if we have a skew in the time frames we can narrow things down. many think he went into the water, perhaps he did if something is wrong somewhere in the path. I just don't know at this moment. I can tell you that if I take off at 7:36:33 and the wind and temps are set properly and I follow exactly as they did leveling at 7,000 with flaps at 30, speed 160, then continue a while until I start the climb to 10,000 back at 15 flaps and around 170. I arrive at Toledo at 7:59. I have flown this part of the path dozens of times. I'm working on other parts of the leg following Toledo. I also get blown off course just as Rat explained. the hard part is being the pilot, co-pilot and engineer all at the same time, watching my speed, course, time, fuel etc. not easy my friend. I need a co-pilot with me keep in mind the place card was found some 25 KM from the supposed LZ...... _____________________________________________ Good information, Mrshutter45. Sounds like you need a couple of more hands. Your work is fascinating, it just may help answer some of those burning questions. You've already mentioned getting blown off course. That in itself could be significant. I don't have map in front of me right now, but I'm wondering just how close you are to the Columbia River gorge (the stretch of the River directly east of the Portland/Washougal area for several miles along the river, going east). I was in the Gorge that night, the wind was fierce. I'm wondering if 305 could have been close enough to the start of the Gorge to have been affected by the severe winds that were blowing through there that night. Might that have affected the flight path? I don't know how close an aircraft would have to be to the Columbia River Gorge to be affected by its severe side winds and wind shears. If so, then it might mean 305 was further south and further east than was originally thought. I do have to make one more point -- just because we haven't found a body or a parachute or a briefcase does not mean they're not there. And just because we have not found any of the Cooper stuff does not mean the flight path or jump zone was all wrong. Since none of the Cooper goods were found, it may be evidence, or a possible indication anyway, that something is amiss. That's all I'm saying. I think your work may very well help us get to the bottom of it. I wish you well, and if there's anything I could possibly do to help, please do not hesitate to ask. MeyerLouie Quote good points which will merit future discussion, if and when new material is released - - -

_______________________________________________ I think even Mr. H has acknowledges that the FBI had it wrong -- the search area. Only one iota of anything was ever found (no parachute, no streamer, no briefcase, no moneybag, no loafers -- just the aft door placard) in the search area, and it's been said more than once, "You'd think something would have turned up by now." This is evidence (that's right, the lack of it) that Cooper most likely didn't jump here. Whatever algorithm or procedure was used to determine the jump zone, it was wrong. So, something is amiss. Moreover, the money find at Tena Bar might also indicate the calculations were off -- like maybe by quite a bit way off. Might Cooper have ended up more south and more east than what was originally estimated? Did we get faked out by that pressure bump? Entirely possible...... MeyerLouie Quote Yes he did, several times. In an interview following a conference in '76, H placed the DZ at 12 miles north of Portland. After the money find (1980) he moved the DZ east to somewhere near the Washougal at an uncertain north latitude. This is no way certifies that what H was saying/thinking in the Portland office, reflected what agents in the Seattle office and elsewhere were saying/thinking. The above is merely anecdotal ... but supported by interviews H gave during those years.

Sounds like one entry of the transcript was an add-on. The typist added in an additional message from the crew. Now...in articles written about the event, those time estimates might have been written up by the reporters. Rataczak has been interviewed many times, and it seems natural over the years that he might tell reporters rounded-off figures. For example, saying 7:45 for an entry, when in reality the event happened at 7:43. The only trustworthy record would be the transcript, in my opinion. But the time stamps are also tricky because there would be some delay between the crew's actual radio contact and the time the typist enters the information. Sounds as if the 8:10 entry was the add-on somehow. Maybe the typist is trying to narrow down the time the crew actually reported the stairs were causing an occillation. It is difficult to decipher. I don't know. Four or five minutes, twelve to fifteen miles, that's a lot of search area. It's possible that Cooper jumped a bit further south than the Lake Merwin area, but that begs one point and another question: If the people working on the jump point had access to the transcript and saw these things, and were speaking to the crew, (during and after the flight) how did they decide to pick the search area that they did? See...this is a question for the FBI I think. Or the people who decided the search area from the data. Douggarr says in part: I'll bet you are the same Doug who doesn't like the idea of rebuilding the school building in Woodinville. I'm with you on this. They should just hire more cops and stop being so secretive on some of the information regarding Cossey. The Woodinville police chief classified it as a burglary at the last City Council meeting but would give no other details. My opinion is that people in Cossey's neighborhood might appreciate knowing whether or not there is a burglar in the neighborhood who has now graduated to murder. I hope they find Cossey's killer soon. Quote Hey copycat, outside of parroting the thread, what are you getting out of this? Your boom box drive byes are getting tiresome!

Pretty much. Unless you have an actual point or something. Eat more skunk, darling.

How the hell should I know? I'm not a pilot. I wasn't aboard 305. Quote Well think about it, God damnit! This would be elementary for Farflung and Farf is looking over our shoulders still . . . probably laughing his ass off that I brought this up ... or crying that I did! I know where I sit in the scheme of things - - - You cherry-picked my quote. That's okay. I've done that occasionally. But my question remains the same. If you have a point here, why don't you make it? You want me to take a guess at 'retraction time' after Cooper jumped from the stairs? I'll assume you are trying to determine the number of seconds between the time Cooper actually jumped and when the indicator light on the panel went OFF, and then ON again for the remainder of the flight to Reno. Some seconds were involved, sure. Because...the plane was moving at approximately three miles a minute and these seconds might narrow down the jump point? This is a nearly impossible task without going to sources. And even if you get solid sources, how would you narrow it down to say...8:12.36PM as a jump point? The crew wasn't sitting up there with a stopwatch and holding their breath. If you could 100% narrow that window to only TWO MINUTES, you would do better than anyone else has ever done on the case. You are asking the wrong guy. This is the realm of FBI records, or interviews with people who created the original data. Blevins. None of the above. You are wallowing in your paranoia again. You say: "If you have a point here, why don't you make it? " "If you have a point here" ? I guess my question was worthless. Thanks for your wisdom and self sacrifice. Bonsai!

How the hell should I know? I'm not a pilot. I wasn't aboard 305. Quote Well think about it, God damnit! This would be elementary for Farflung and Farf is looking over our shoulders still . . . probably laughing his ass off that I brought this up ... or crying that I did! I know where I sit in the scheme of things - - -