georger

Speculation: I've also wondered WHY the hijacker selected a flight coming out of the main hub in Minneapolis, the base of NWA. A flight he knew would end up in Seattle. Just saying.Quote Well you can stop wondering - because he didn't! Read at http://n467us.com/

Was living at the start of the Cooper plane "Milk Run" in MN Lived in Portland, Oregon at one time Quote Nope - flight began in Washington DC, after an overnite there. "Flight 305 was a Boeing 727-51 that had begun the day in Washington, D.C. It carried passengers to the Northwest hub in Minneapolis, made stops in Great Falls and Missoula, MT, and continued west to Portland, OR. The flight to Seattle (taking only about 45 minutes) would conclude its day. The jet could seat 94 passengers (66 in coach and 28 in first class) but it carried just 37 customers and six crew members." Crew exhausted by the end of the day. http://n467us.com/

Not exactly open-minded. No one considered it could have been an inside job. And if it was, this was a blessing for the hijacker. I have wondered occasionally how exactly the hijacker knew the location of the oxygen on 305. Mucklow told him that if he needed oxygen, they had some on board. Cooper, according to Mucklow, said this: ***'I know where it is. If I need it, I will get it.' No big deal, but I always wondered HOW he knew where it was, unless it was in plain sight. He doesn't even ask how it works or anything, as if he already knew how to access it and use it if necessary. Could be NWA Crew Training 101. No way to prove this, but that alleged statement by Mucklow, if it is true, points to some confidence by the hijacker in the use of the emergency oxygen carried on an NWA-based 727. He didnt confirm he knew where the O2 was by pointing to it or getting it - now did he. All he said according to you was "I know where it is if I need it ..." You divert further by bringing in Fuhrman saying 'The FBI did not interview run-of-the-mill NWA employees '.... which has nothing to do with the question. The question is: "Why would a long time NWA employee like KC who had acces to schedules and aircraft being used have to ask the ticket agent if Flight 305 was using a 727? Especially if as you have always said he's keeping a low prifile. Wearing a toupe and all ? Wear 4" elevator shoes lifters to raise his height 4 whole inches ... while concealing his drag costume from everyone who sees or sits by him ... ? What is your proof Fuhrman ever said what you claim? Did you record your interview with him like Mike Simmons recorded his nationally broadcast interview he did with Lyle Christianson? The original question you did not answer remains: Why would KC of all people, a longtime NWA employee with all kinds of contacts, he or Geestman could have used, have to ask Hal Williams if incoming flight 305 was a 727? Just double checking I guess. Passing the time so as to remain unoticed by a fellow NWA employee he would never run into again.. because according to you Fuhrman says: "we (the FBI!) didnt check any "wage earner sheeple who worked for NWA. They were all presumed to be honest and of the highest integrity, because they are NWA Wage Earner Sheeple". I'm curious. Was Fuhrman complaining when he described the rank stupidity of his fellow FBI agents? Did he say it was the stupidity of the FBI that snuffed the Cooper case? Are you blowing the whistle on the FBI through Fuhrman? Do you and Fuhrman plan to testify before Congress?

Quote Wouldn't an long time NWA employee who had targeted flight 305 for his hijacking KNOW if it was a 727 (the preferred target) or not? It would be easy for him to check. Being an employee of the airline! Why would he have to stand at the counter and ask Hal Williams if it was a 727 that was coming or not? Why would he take the risk of being recognised by a fellow NWA employee(s)? Or the crew on the plane for that matter? Or, if he had checked the crew for the day why would he not know it was a727? Seems like a real hurdle to cross. Don't hit us with "physics and perceptions and time warps change at NWA ticket counters in airports". You could try: "Kenny hypnotised everybody". Cooper could have checked the airline flight schedule for the type of equipment that was PLANNED to be used on the Portland to Seattle segment that day. But he double checked with the agent to see if a 727 was actually enroute as planned. All of this boils down to Cooper having previously SELECTED a 727 as his choice for a hijacking. Robert99 Quotethats how I read it too. Another possibility is he's checking on equipment failure and if another type of plane has replaced the 727 but I wonder if Williams would have had that information available in real time? If its an experienced employee he very likely knows what type of aircraft is scheduled because he has checked the schedule ...? So no particular need to ask - Keep in mind Snowmman's find that this schedule was new as of August..

I haven't a clue whether or not KC was the hijacker. It's tricky. There's a lot of coincidences, a lot of unexplained stuff, but there is no smoking gun. Quote Wouldn't an long time NWA employee who had targeted flight 305 for his hijacking KNOW if it was a 727 (the preferred target) or not? It would be easy for him to check. Being an employee of the airline! Why would he have to stand at the counter and ask Hal Williams if it was a 727 that was coming or not? Why would he take the risk of being recognised by a fellow NWA employee(s)? Or the crew on the plane for that matter? Or, if he had checked the crew for the day why would he not know it was a727? Seems like a real hurdle to cross. Don't hit us with "physics and perceptions and time warps change at NWA ticket counters in airports". You could try: "Kenny hypnotised everybody".

this might be William Lloyd David Cooper AKA wild Bill Cooper, he was looked at as a suspect for DB Cooper. http://www.paullundgren.com/journalism-mnmonthlycooper.cfm Didn't our plane start out or have a stop in Minn? We need some physical descriptions and see a picture of this guy now.

And sometimes I wonder whether maybe this case would've been solved a long time ago if folks weren't so worried about who got the credit and getting their slice of the pie...though in case you haven't noticed..the slices on that pie are getting smaller and smaller.

Quote What specifically did he do that makes him stand out, to you? Been over this ground before. BTW it puzzles me that Cooper had to ask if the incoming flight was a 727. He evidently had no other way to check. ?

These 727 missions in Southeast Asia did happen and have been written up by a fellow in Texas. I don't remember his name or the link but they have been on this thread for about the last three or four years. Robert99 here is some info, scroll way down in the file http://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/history/Tibet.pdf the full video of which we always see can be found here http://www.vietnam.ttu.edu/AirAmerica/FMFM/index.htmQuote nice find ...

Thank you, Mr. Shutter. Maybe the memories from when someone is 8 years old are off, but no one spends that much time with the FBI and undergoes a lie detector test when they make up a story unless they want to get into a heap of trouble. Challenging Marla's story is fair game. But, the ad hominem attacks is why RobertMBlevins lacks credibility when he comments on Marla. Jo, Marla and even RobertMBlevins himself all had things told to them (either directly or through non verbal responses like someone turning ashen when asked a question about the hijacking). It was a personal experience to each of them, so each of them believe it. Maybe one of them is correct, maybe none of them are. But I don't see any reason to think that any of them are lying about what they saw or heard. (Bob Knoss - I'm not ready to commit on. I still think he might just be toying with us). wow! very well put.

what a story!

God bless you and Smokin99! I can rest in Peace! I am now late for a metting of cultists trying to get a birthday present delivered ... viv la Weinberg etal ... Marla should have claimed LD saw the comic on a college dorm room wall!

The Damn Comic was never mentioned in the Cooper Case until Snowmman brought it up in this thread. If YOU think it was - PRODUCE the evidence - PRODUCE the articles where the FBI said this or and if it was made public. IT was not until Snowmman found it and put it in the thread and then Carr used it on the FBI site! Quote I'm not going to reply to this or provide proof for two reasons: (a) not going to feed anyone's ego, and (b) Im not going to feed anyone's next cult classic on TV!, and (c) I'm not going to have people pestered by you on the telephone. I know your habits. (d) The socalled Cooper Comic may have been new to Snowmman and Carr, but neither of them have lived in an esoteric university environment where lots of trivia is known, by all sorts of people coming and going from all over the world. The two reasons above are two good reasons not to comment further, too. Two! Thanks or your concern for accuracy, two.

Quote That is the part I have trouble with. That an ordinary person couldnt or wouldnt see it ... I do think men would see it (notice it) faster than women would. Amazon excepted ... Cooper obviously saw it! Yours is a good point in any event. Later ...

Geoff doesnt have a technical background and is weak on technical matters. He's a smart guy with a good education but he's at the layman's level when it comes to issues of technology and science. I've dealt with him personally on these matters ... and so has Tom Kaye. Geoff does take the time to try and understand technical matters but he sometimes mispeaks on technical issues - that's my personal experience with him.

We are speaking about socalled incursions into Cambodia and Laos which occurred under Nixon and before for the purpose of reconnaissance, supplying loyalists, and ocassional interventions in order to disrupt the NVA who were running supplies and troops through Laos and Cambodia in support their war effort further south into Vietnam. Had the 727 been involved as a platform in these missions, and had Cooper perhaps served in some cappacity in such missions. If you recall Ckret had brought up the idea of Cooper perhaps having been involved in such missions as a 'cargo handler'? Snowmman and 377 were seeking "proof" of such missions involving the 727 specifically. What surprised me was that anyone would question it or that the 727 had been involved? Those rear stairs on the 727 are an automatic tipoff! I mean anyone just seeing a 727 and those rear stairs could deduce the opportunity for 'parachuting' mout the back of one of those airplanes, using the rear stairs. You didn't have to have Classified information to see the potential opporunity. And in fact, Cooper stood right at the ticket counter and asked Hal Williams specifically: "That is a 727 that is coming?" I guess Williams hadn't thought about it, so he checked, and answered "yes". Right there was a potential red flag, as we would see it in today's perspective. Back in 1971 few people on the civilian side were thinking in such terms even if employed by an airline - Ive said this before but I think Cooper could very easily have deduced 'you might be able to parachute out the back of a 727 using the rear stairs', just by visiting an airport and watching 727's come and go. And he could have explored the possibility further just by talking to the right people. So far as I know nobody came forwad later to say: 'Hey. There was a guy asking about parachuting from a 727 last year. I'm not sure who he was.' I mean daVinci and Wright got the idea of airfoils, just watching birds. You didn't have to be a bird.

You are referring in that last part where I said it MIGHT be difficult for nervous and under-stress witnesses to judge someone's true height in the confines of an aircraft cabin. 'Might be' is the key phrase here. It's easier to judge someone's height compared to yours when they are standing next to you out in the open at the bus stop, for example. Now that we know via Geoff Gray that not only the stews, but the passenger witnesses gave varying descriptions of the hijacker, I think that statement has some merit. It could go the other way as well. Maybe the hijacker was six-four or something. But after I read Gray's statements about the witness testimony it made me think. He's the only guy recently who was allowed to examine the originals. His opinion on this would be of value. how much of his description do you wish to tamper with? since we can change his height I guess we can also change the age group to be in his 30's up to mid 50's. where does it end, or is this only because KC was 5'8" the shortest on the long list of suspects. If LD was born in 1933 and was 38. the description could be off and now allow LD into the pool. the cabin height of a 727 is 86.3" (7 foot) a person person 6' 4" would be 10" from the ceiling. a person 6' would be 14" a person 5'8" would be 18" from the ceiling. here is a picture from the movie "The Pursuit Of DB Cooper" Robert Duvall is near the rear exit of the plane. Robert Duvall is 5' 10" pic #2 is a comparison to someone 4" shorter than Duvall. note how they would have to look up. how tall was Tina? looking back in the thread I read Tina was 5' 8" how did she get it wrong by saying she had to look up at Cooper?Quote This is NOT a problem in General Relativity. Nor is it an issue one can pick apart and trivialise into non-existence in order to dismiss witness testimony on the vain hope of fitting a dwarf into the Celtics lineup. Let's cut through this cult gobblewobble by simply noting Cooper was also seen and observed for a long period in the airport at PDX. At the ticket counter. In the lineup boarding. Walking, standing, and sitting in the NWA lobby. Blevins' arguments on this point is just bad highschool drama. We should be way beyond ignoring such claptrap.

Marla is just plain 'misinformed', or newly informed, partially informed ... its a ridiculous claim on it's face. Almost as ridiculous as the claim Optical Physics does not work in the cabins of airplanes! agreed. after watching this. one can only assume since Marla was on here, seen BK's story and ran with it. too much in common not to believe it came from here. perhaps old BK will be found out in the up and coming news BK might have to pull out the 27 foot trailer full of files and go toe to toe. he better tell Mac to run silent and deep. I calculate about 6 feet deep should do it Yes. I think Dropzone played a BIG ROLE in her education for a script. But she isn't the first or the last ... sorry to say. Hutzpah comes to mind.

Marla is just plain 'misinformed', or newly informed, partially informed ... its a ridiculous claim on it's face. Almost as ridiculous as the claim Optical Physics does not work in the cabins of airplanes! Keep in mind, these snuf pieces rest on all kinds of assumptions no ordinary person of the world would make. These producers don't care and presume people aren morons or it doesn't matter: They use the art of the bait and inflame - Like Lincoln had two wives! The use of the 727 by the CIA and USAF was top secret. Quartz is a gas. Lemons contain arsenic. NYCity is infested by fire ants. Orientals have a different ocular physiology that the rest of Homo Sapiens and therefore "can't fly airplanes"! DB Cooper controlled very move the pilots made during the flight. Etc.

The one thing that does help support Marla's claim of CIA involvement is that the Cooper plane was used by the CIA per Grey if I remember correctly. Quote I dont think Geoff was referring to N467US (the Cooper plane) but to the general use of 727's in Laos and Cambodia ... which has been the most open classified secret since the bowling ball! That anyone in this generation needed FBI files or classified documents to know that ... never heard of VIETNAM! In my neck of the woods that has been open acknowledged fact since Grandpa got et by the owls. I literally don't understand where this Top DSecret stuff about the use of 727's in Vietnam & Thailand came from. Some people have been living in a cave?

ok, I appreciate the info. As I said Jo its your business .. I wont persue it... thanks...

KC a cult? Now that's a new one. Here's my definition of 'cult': ***'A self-identified group of people who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective...' Quote I think you defined cult very well. self-identified group of people... who share a narrowly defined interest or perspective... marked by "ritual" or habitual performance in persuit of espoused principles or goals in veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, or custom, always divorced from and superior to, reality. The behavior and product of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. (see DSM) Cooper candidates derrived in such a manner, who are NOT DB Cooper!, would then qualify as "cult" candidates. They are mere candidates because in point of fact they never rise to the level of being suspects, except within the cult(s) that are claiming they are or could be suspected of being DB Cooper. One hallmark of cult activity is the reliance on psychic activity, suspension of the natural laws of nature and science, and claims to having special knowledge or sensibilities in detecting TRUTH from fiction which the rest of the population cannot see or know.

Just curious. Are you talking about initial N. in the southwest ? I had to ask. I won't say any more - it's your business. I honestly don't care one way or the other and you can take that to the bank. Just confirm if you will ? I wont ask or discuss it further.

Smokin99 has a 99.99% record of fair impartial research. I think she will get to the bottom of things if she can, and wants to. I will make a few contacts tomorrow and perhaps call X, and post later. Frankly, I want to give Smokin all the room and freedom she needs and wants ...

I remember this article. I think this is a different LD. I found records of a Lynn D Cooper that was a much older than our LD. I'll see if I can still find info on him.this broke out at the same time Marla's story first aired. I think that's right. The presumed Vancouver connection was a promising lead in the beginning then it fissled. Does anyone have an arrest record for LD to know what prints etc are on file that the FBI would have compared with? At the end of the day LD will probably pass into the "cult" file, along with Weber, KC, and the rest ... I didn't find any criminal activity with LD. I assume they used his military records for prints? When Mr.X backed Marla and helped her bring LD to the FBI he checked LD's records. I thought he told me and others there was a minor record, nothing serious. LD was known for his stunts and pranks ... that much I do remember X saying. I can call X and ask around if you want ... ? Pse understand Im just where I was at the start. Its my understanding LD has been vetted and is not DBC. But of course I can have the wroing story from the wrong people too - you just never know for sure. Things get confused in the vortex.