snowmman

I'm always scouring the web looking for pics of old money or buried money. Here are two I think they show how the thin edges tend to dry/get brittle/decompose at a faster rate than the faces..i.e. the faces can stay looking good, while the edges deteriorate. Also, I think the corners have the fastest rate of decline? (edit) oh in money9 compare the condition of the thin rubber bands to the money. Does it mean we really don't understand the rate of decay of rubber bands? or could those rubber bands be newer? Unclear. Oh if you're not familiar with the Felhaber story, it's an interesting one. google search: http://www.google.com/search?&q=felhaber+money

funny posts! Those bills that were up for auction evidently finished. Not sure of the prices. So Ingram has auctioned 24 bills so far, see here: http://historical.ha.com/common/auction/pricesrealized.php?txtSearch=D.B.+Cooper+ransom+money&hdnSearch=true&chkSupplies=1&stage=1 There was also that bill sold on ebay by the OK school teacher that got a bill from Brian very early on. There's another bill for bid/sale on ebay right now. Buy It Now for $2800..oh just marked down to $2240! The market is collapsing! We need a bailout! http://cgi.ebay.com/DB-COOPER-1971-HISTORIC-RANSOM-MONEY-$20-FRN-1963A-_W0QQitemZ200276821882QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081117?IMSfp=TL081117116008r18906 So that all sounds to us, like there's a lot of interest in Cooper and it's "important" to people. Well it's nothing. The prop, non-functional, light saber from the first Star Wars just went for $240,000. C-3PO's helmet: $120,000 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28194164/ Choke on that Jo!

Georger, you made me laugh hard! Jo, give me something on why the night clerk is in the US. If he won't find me, I'll find him! I know he speaks english. I start with that! Give me just three words he strings together...anything! Does he like chicken?

There is one Jim. There is one Jimi. no one's wrong.

Jim. Last song recorded before he died "Riders on the Storm" It was on their 1971 album. I love the old music vids on youtube! Amazing what's there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTKGvvafFeM Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Into this house we're born Into this world we're thrown Like a dog without a bone An actor out on loan Riders on the storm Theres a killer on the road His brain is squirmin like a toad Take a long holiday Let your children play If ya give this man a ride Sweet memory will die Killer on the road, yeah Girl ya gotta love your man Girl ya gotta love your man Take him by the hand Make him understand The world on you depends Our life will never end Gotta love your man, yeah Wow! Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Into this house were born Into this world were thrown Like a dog without a bone An actor out alone Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Riders on the storm Riders on the storm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riders_on_the_Storm

no, labrys is conflicted. JOKE!

Was thinking about King Lear synopsis from a web site: The Storm As Lear wanders about a desolate heath in Act III, a terrible storm, strongly but ambiguously symbolic, rages overhead. In part, the storm echoes Lear’s inner turmoil and mounting madness: it is a physical, turbulent natural reflection of Lear’s internal confusion. At the same time, the storm embodies the awesome power of nature, which forces the powerless king to recognize his own mortality and human frailty and to cultivate a sense of humility for the first time. The storm may also symbolize some kind of divine justice, as if nature itself is angry about the events in the play. Finally, the meteorological chaos also symbolizes the political disarray that has engulfed Lear’s Britain.

So... you're accepting that when there are more variables than known quantities all you can do is work for a simple equation that describes relationships. You guys have worked hard to define boundries but that's all you have. Hi labrys! So we should ...?

Dear Night Clerk, I hope you are lurking. The FBI won't release your statement. Jo won't release your statement, because Jo is part of the coverup. I am your only hope. Create an account here and PM me. I will publish your statement and the truth will be revealed. Yours in the Order, snowmman p.s. Would you like to pet my iguana?

AH! yes it was from the movie. I had to look hard to find one without an f-bomb.

I was just looking at the transcript, and it may be that the "show on the road" comment or "plane on the road" was delivered over the intercom phone directly to the cockpit? It's not clear if it was said to Tina and relayed. If so, there could have been a swear that only the person on the phone heard, and didn't relay? Just thinking out loud. Ckret said no swearing, but I forget the level of detail he provided, on whose testimony that description came from.

I've just figured out why this bothered me. We are talking about something that would be, or at least presented as, non-fiction. Since when does this type of book lend itself to gratuitous bad language? I mean, we are talking DB Cooper and not "snakes on a plane", right? I haven't read any of the other DB Cooper books, were those full of filthy words? Yes, the "novel" Ha-Ha-Ha had gratuitous porn-like writing. I agree with you that it's odd if excessive sexual references or swearing creeps into writing, when it's not core to any central themes. Oh, I just noticed one thing. The newspapers, as early as 11/25/71 quoted Scott as saying Cooper wanted to "get this show on the road". I believe the transcripts later revealed the phrase to be "plane on the road" correct? I forget if Ckret said what the post-interviews revealed. (as opposed to the transcripts). Since the news articles, apparently quoting Scott, said "show on the road", I'm assuming that's as good as an FBI briefing, and that "show on the road" was what Cooper said. In any case, the early printing of that, would mean that phrase could creep into the Cooper mythology from day 1. (edit) New meme from Orange1! Paul: Why exactly are there snakes on this plane?

I mentioned that I thought our analyses had been trivial. Here's a by-example: If smokejumping background was a theory, we should be able to express the range of years Cooper would have had smokejumping training, based on the age range of people that got training in certain years, and Cooper's estimated age. It's biased towards younger ages, but we'd have to cover the full range of ages that "signed up for training"... That would give us a window to say "if Cooper was involved with smokejumping, it would be in this range of years". I've not done that. But smokejumping training is all static line jumping, right? (back then). So it's actually not a lot more interesting than static line paratroop training. If we think there is a Cooper skill requirement, then that background would have been in the '50s, and seems too far back compared to the time of the hijack. So then the rational question is "how many smokejumpers from that era, transitioned into freefall skydiving"? Now if we want to say Cooper had no skills and was just a random dude, then we'll never find him. So necessarily, for our conversation to possibly lead to Cooper, it has to assume Cooper has some skills in his past that we can track, based on the hijack. Not saying he did, but otherwise there's nothing we can contribute. Enough, we can talk about Duane's shoe size some more. Oh: I did have one thought. I always wondered whether Cooper's white shirt had long sleeves visible as cuffs under his jacket. I suppose the overcoat prevented seeing that.

Georger eloquently said, amongst other things: "I'm not going to speak for the FBI or try to second guess them. I frankly have too much respect for them for that, so call that my bias." I know I have nothing to form an opinion of the FBI on, other than maybe what I read in the news. Even the Ckret interaction isn't much to form an opinion on. If anything, he comes off as a little flip and arrogant. I know I'm arrogant. When I am I don't try to hide it. Mostly cause I have the luxury of not having to. Ckret is obviously constrained by his job. With respect to language I use, I can never understand this current "cutesy" stuff people do. i.e. when they want to say something, and there's the perfect word for it, rather than using that word, they'll substitute characters, or say "fark you" (I've read that on cnn.com!) ...and it's all cutesy like you're saying something but not really saying it. It's much better to just say the exact words that convey the most meaning at all times. These people who think changing the words, changes peoples thoughts, are just nuts. People's thoughts are what written expression is about...Conveying them concisely should be the goal.

ok thanks for the clarification. The way you worded it, I interpreted it as if I said "Cooper! The Icelandic Girls! Wall Street!".....and it meant that I knew there was a connection between all three, and was trying to tell you that. There is no such connection. (edit) "who was high up in the COMPANY" Yes, it's much more impressive with capital LETTERS! (edit) Although I'm still scratching my head on how I misunderstood this: (a double BOEING reference also) "NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING." Forgive me for thinking you were just making stuff up.

I think we've bought into this myth of "everyone looked like Cooper then" with no data. I've been able to dig up a bunch of photos of people of roughly interesting ages, from '66 thru '71 I'm wondering if it'd be interesting to put a collage of 100 or so males together. My guess is, based on the way people discuss this, is that we don't have a common understanding of what people looked like then. Or we've forgotten. I mention this, because my opinion is that people latch onto photos of Gossett and Christiansen just because they haven't seen photos of people from the '60s in a long time. Example: the way Jo latched onto those photos I produced that were random off the web. It goes to my belief that people are incapable of matching suspect photos to the composite drawings. I have no idea if that is true or not. It's just a thought I've been having.

Ah! Secret data from those who accuse others of secrets...let it rain!

yup. another thing I realized, is that our ability to reach out and touch people, is limited by our search tools. A random guess is that less than 20% of "good" suspects could even be listed by us. (p.s. I kind of laugh at the skydivers who've bragged about being pseudo-investigated! I am whuffo, so I can say that!) Looking at all the "facts" in the Cooper case, it's easy to make a case for the likelihood that our "tools" can't detect him. So getting all serious about it, is kind of a joke. The most likely outcome is not knowing. If it ever becomes known, it's going to be sheer dumb luck, (coupled with some effort). But luck predominating. Or Cooper wanting to be caught. That's kind of my thing. If he's alive, wanting to be caught at his current age. If dead, then it's just hopeless.

Jo just said: Jo: this is different than what you said before. You said before: Is there additional information about Boeing, Portland or Smokejumping? Or was that just theorizing you were doing. I can't tell. (edit) on the Hurand photo What exactly is a "high ranking official". Can you name the position/title? I don't see why you threw that in.

Fair enough Sluggo. I like bantering about this thing. How do you think you're going to solve Norjak? I'm not being flip. I'm kinda wondering what your plan is. Tips thru your website? That might work. Maybe tips to a private citizen would be more plentiful than to the FBI. or ??? (edit) Holding the mirror up to me, I guess I'd say I'd like to get the lists of jumpers I mentioned before, but it seems like that will never happen. My approach is based on an assumption that the FBI people investigation wasn't thorough complete enough at the time, for a lot of good reasons. I have no idea if that's true or not though!

You don't see what I'm saying, Sluggo. It made me realize a couple things 1) That reality can be infinitely more layered, and sadder, and deserving of respect, than the trivial level we discuss things at here. 2) That the amount of time spent discussing Duane with fantasy facts is insane, and probably Duane's best revenge for imprisoning him. 3) That regardless of whatever constraints Ckret has on his life, he's not running any kind of show that this forum is involved in. And that has nothing to do with who respects who and why. There's just no show. 4) This forum has always been just guys (and whoa-men! :) talking smack at the bar. I can't understand why you try to pretend it's not. so in short: I like the quotes.

Fuck you, Sluggo. How come everyone has to accuse people of secret goals. I'll give you a secret goal. I took the goals of this forum to heart, dug up what I thought was a good suspect that met my understanding of a good profile. No not the first one I discussed with you Sluggo. Reviewed it with 377. Forwarded to Ckret. And haven't heard shit. He just ignored the whole thing. It made me realize this whole Ckret thing, and this whole forum is bullshit. And how bullshit the whole Duane thing is. There is absolutely nothing this forum can do that's worthwhile, other than get drunk. Will you please go somewhere else to get drunk? Quade can ban me. He's got the trigger finger. Just PM him.

Fuck you, Sluggo. How come everyone has to accuse people of secret goals. I'll give you a secret goal. I took the goals of this forum to heart, dug up what I thought was a good suspect that met my understanding of a good profile. No not the first one I discussed with you Sluggo. Reviewed it with 377. Forwarded to Ckret. And haven't heard shit. He just ignored the whole thing. It made me realize this whole Ckret thing, and this whole forum is bullshit. And how bullshit the whole Duane thing is. There is absolutely nothing this forum can do that's worthwhile, other than get drunk.

uh? why would I visit Jo? She may have a story to tell. If she's not able to tell it Sluggo, and you can, then tell it. It sounds like you're starting to. How about creating a web page that outlines it so we can review it without constantly getting into this mode of beating on her over the crumbs she sprinkles. You want to blame the forum. Not! This forum is just a bunch of guys talking smack at the bar. Since when has it been anything but that? (edit) You've become Jo, Sluggo..i.e. the dramatic whisper "(I have found evidence that the FBI searched this area (in 1972 - 1975) without any publicity.)" If I guess right, this so-called "evidence" is bullshit. The FBI searched the whole flight path with multiple planes. You've got nothing beyond that. If so, show it. Don't be Jo.

On Sept 12, 2008 at 2:15 AM Jo opened the gold plates and revealed: "I have repeatedly said the name Knutson or Knutsen or something similar had a meaning. Smokejumper (only for a short time), try lived in Portland, try worked for Boeing. NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING. I have told the FBI over and over and over there was a connection with this name and Duane and the skyjacking. I think I found it, but it is UP to the FBI to check it out." Knutsen was revealed to us twice by Jo. Jo: are there any more Knutsen crumbs? There is no "Knutsen" that has ever been trained as a smokejumper, according to the book "Smokejumpers" which lists all, and the year, and training center they graduated from. I even looked and they had listings to MSO 1943, when the first CPS smokejumper crews started ('43-'45) other busts: Knutson How was Knutsen revealed to you? Did you read it somewhere? Whispered at a convention? Clara-voyance? Dare I say it: sweet nothings in the ear from a skydiver? (edit) You must have read it somewhere. If it was just spoken, you might have said "Newtson". I doubt "kn" would be your first choice for beginning the spelling unless you copied it from somewhere? Where? (edit) The ethnic sound of Knutsen makes me think you plucked it out of the CPS camps. Yes there were smokejumpers from the CPS camps, and possibly are not all listed in the Smokejumpers book. Not sure. But: The first non-CPS crew was in 1946. The CPS crews were started in 1943. The problem is the numbers were small. Or where they (35 at McCall...250 total?) Are you saying Knutsen was '43-'45??? from http://www.smokejumpers.com/smokejumper_magazine/item.php?articles_id=358&magazine_editions_id=31 "During the first three years of smokejumping at McCall, the crew consisted of two Forest Service employees and the rest were CPS (Civilian Public Service or Conscientious Objectors) jumpers. Lloyd had a lot of respect for the conscientious objectors, even though he did not agree with them for not going into the military service. He understood it was the way they were raised and what they believed in. The CPS crew would do anything they were asked to do in McCall in those early years. That first year the CPS jumpers were not prepared for the sub-zero temperatures. He had to "beg, borrow, and steal" for clothes to get them through the long winter months. The CPS program was run by their own organization and, after training, they received their jumper base assignment. In 1944, McCall received sixteen of these jumpers and expanded to thirty-five for the final year of the program in 1945." (edit) Correction. This recent book puts the number of CPS firefighters at 250? Correction again. I'm looking at the book at Google, and it appears to say 250 trained to jump http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=gQ7XawzdAZQC&dq=Smoke+Jumping+on+the+Western+Fire+Line:+Conscientious+Objectors+During+World+War+II&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=VaSgIq-G4w&sig=GDu7IsJmQx1KBE2arO9H58NagcE&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA4,M1 Mark Matthews, Smoke Jumping on the Western Fire Line: Conscientious Objectors During World War II. Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 2006. Pp. 336 ($29.95) ISBN 978-0-8061-3766-7 "Mark Matthews is a journalist based in Missoula, Montana, who since 1993 has worked as a seasonal firefighter for the U.S. Forest Service. .. From 1943 to 1945, 250 American conscientious objectors trained and performed duties as firefighters at Civilian Public Service Camp Grand Menard near Huson, Montana. " "In addition to working at the smoke jumpers' base camp, some of the men traveled to assignments at spike camps in western Montana, Oregon, Washington, and Idaho, and at fire lookout towers across the northern Rockies." http://www.bethelks.edu/mennonitelife/2006Dec/reviews.php